HAL HJT-36 Sitara

p2prada

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the R&D of aircraft has not any shortcut.

there is only one way to develope a advanced and independent aircraft industry. that is ,burn money and keep on burning money....
6 billion is only enough to construct 60-KM-long subways. it is just a peanut to the cost of building a advanced aircraft industry.

it is a blunder to believe that the cost of 60-km-long subways can build a advanced and independent aircraft industry.
You are simply nitpicking at straws.

You are comparing a construction project to a R&D industry. Really hopeless.

Read the headlines again. The $6billion is only to add to capability and not to build an aircraft industry from scratch. Learn English.
 

notinlove

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Another thing that HAL and MoD seriously need to look into is to make jobs in HAL and ADA more attractive for top engineering students in India. even though the 6th Pay commission has dramatically increased Govt. salaries, and the current recessionary climate is making Govt. jobs very lucrative, this is a temporary phase. India needs to attract the best talent to its defence sector to achieve its lofty ambitions of a global power.

The Govt. should also encourage more private sector partnership with HAL, ADA and VRDE as the pvt. sector will ensure merit and capability on a larger scale.
as i come from a top of the line engineering college there is one thing i know .... people who are dedicated and want to seriously do good research and interesting work still opt for PSU's like DRDO and ISRO ..... some of my classmates even left 8l per annum dream jobs to join isro and drdo ......
what they should ensure though is to make the job interesting enough ....not just bore somebody with supervisory stuff ....
 

neo29

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something little off topic but fact

i have a friend in drdo .. cant give more details. he has told me that half the people in drdo as well as HAL are quiet lazy and do the work very slowly. some of them just come to office to warm chairs.
when our ground level operations are lacking the enthusiasm to work and make better products for the country ..... is it worth investing so much money ?
infact if the concerned people shud be made do their work properly so that the capability is increased automatically and we dont need to invest so much money.
 

nitesh

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something little off topic but fact

i have a friend in drdo .. cant give more details. he has told me that half the people in drdo as well as HAL are quiet lazy and do the work very slowly. some of them just come to office to warm chairs.
when our ground level operations are lacking the enthusiasm to work and make better products for the country ..... is it worth investing so much money ?
infact if the concerned people shud be made do their work properly so that the capability is increased automatically and we dont need to invest so much money.
This sort of talks are common I am not saying that there is absolutely no problem but ask your so called friend does he works properly (ask for a honest answer) at least with my experience of working with PSU I don't find situation so bad as it explained by your friend
 

mattster

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something little off topic but fact

i have a friend in drdo .. cant give more details. he has told me that half the people in drdo as well as HAL are quiet lazy and do the work very slowly. some of them just come to office to warm chairs.
when our ground level operations are lacking the enthusiasm to work and make better products for the country ..... is it worth investing so much money ?
infact if the concerned people shud be made do their work properly so that the capability is increased automatically and we dont need to invest so much money.
Work culture and values is not something static. It can be changed over a period of a few years if the top level management is serious and makes it known and gets rid of incompetent staff.

The key is that the direction has to come from the top.

In an organization like HAL which has its own captive market, then you will have a certain amount of lethargy that is inherent in a government owned enterprise. The way this is countered in other countries is to privatize these PSU or create competitors for them. The Indian market is not big enough to support multiple aircraft companies, but as HAL increasingly competes around the world for business, they will gradually become more competitive.
 

sandeepdg

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labour cost ouccpy small section of all R&D cost.

the cost of infrastructures and experiment facilities/equippment cost much.

India has to import many of them at international market at international price with hard cash...

So, your claim that "Investing 6 billion USD in India is equivalent to an investment of 24-30 billion $$ in the western world" is questioned!
I agree that most critical equipments have to be imported and that is where the major part of the money will go into. What I meant was that besides that, infrastructure, labour and transportation costs in India will be far lower than in western countries, especially if we delegate all these functions to Indian contractors. And that figure of 6 billion equal to 24-30 billion is just hypothetical and meant to show cost ratio of work done in India vs West. And anyway, it doesn't mean that HAL will not spend more if it is essentially required.
 

Tshering22

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People, it has been 3 years since we all have been hearing about HAL's IJT-36 Sitara that is going to replace the Kiran now and then. However one thing I don't understand:

When will it get into IAF and IN?



The design is complete, the Russian AL-55 engines are doing good and proven, the aircraft has even performed once or twice, then what is stopping IAF from taking it? Earlier there was engine and hydraulics problem but now they say it is solved.

So why the delay in IOC? It is not going to play the role of Tejas to go to serious weaponization tests except a few types of dumb bombs or MRLs. Anyone has any information on Sitara?

Thanks.
 

Welcome

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i think IAF officers are waiting for commission. if HAL they failed to give it than IAF will again find more problem in it and at last they will buy some more British trainer after meeting in a luxury room of 5 star hotel with lot of euros and some pretty girls. not need for trial or some thing. And after some time HAL will dumped it's Sitara projects and will ask billion dollar for new projects. Again HAL and DRDO will buy all equipment of aircraft from different countries and they will manufactured it in india after 30 years of research and 5000% hike in budget, at last they will paint MADE IN INDIA on it. and you know what next. My Dear friend it's a prescribed chain which you can't break.
 

SATISH

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Something went wrong in the spin tests..so the delay.
 

ppgj

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Tshering : IOC for IJT Sitara is june 2011. it was told by HAL chief mr. ashok nayak at LCA IOC function. it was in one of the Tarmak article IIRC.

Something went wrong in the spin tests..so the delay.
satish, i guess initially they did face some spin issues which they overcame by adding 'strakes'. this was before the russian engine was mated and since being tested IMO. you can see the strakes here -



just forward of the IAF roundel.
 

Tshering22

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^^ Thanks for the info man. Really appreciate it. But hopefully the induction to start this year because there's simply no need for going as deep as a second-stage FOC for this. They already tested limited weapons that it can carry (total 5 hardpoints), the flight tests had some issues and now solved. SO there's absolutely no reason to make it another Tejas issue.

Kiran needs to be replaced by Sitara ASAP. The Sagar Pawan team of IN already has seen a crash in that Hyderabad air show and not to mention the multiple crashes of Kirans sometime ago.
 

debasree

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india cannot spend 24-30 billion $$ in a single project, it has other priorities,so to the begining 6billion$ is a good amount.
 

bhogta

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India already has wind tunnel systems in place in HAL. Where did you think LCA flying profile tested??.
Its in NAL not in HAL. Indian biggest wind tunnel facility is in NAL. Even we are using NAL for LUH testing also.
 

black eagle

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HAL has initiated a critical phase of the intermediate jet trainer (IJT) programme by calling for bids to weaponise the aircraft. After hurdles delayed the flight test programme last year, the Indian intermediate jet trainer HJT-36 Sitara is on course to obtain initial operational clearance (IOC) in June. Crucial spin recovery tests -- mandatory for the IOC checklist -- are scheduled to begin in the next two weeks. In the meantime, since the Sitara will be used for primary weapon training of pilots in gunnery, rocketry, bombing and weapon aiming, HAL has now invited bids to give the platform a 12.7-mm gun pod (with 200 round capacity) suitable for its in-board wing stations.

The programme team intends to deliver a fully operational platform to the IAF in 2013. The IAF has asked for over 70 aircraft, but is almost certain to finally order nearly three times that number. The HJT-36 will also feature prominently on HAL's export catalogue. Am working on a retrospective of the Sitara programme, with lots of pictures. That should be done in the next week or so.


http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/02/effort-to-arm-indian-stage-2-trainer.html
 

rudresh

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it seems that we are lacking engine test facilities in india so there has to be some investments in this area it can bring sudden benefits to k10 and future engine projects like engines for helicopter and transport.
 

rudresh

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I agree that most critical equipments have to be imported and that is where the major part of the money will go into. What I meant was that besides that, infrastructure, labour and transportation costs in India will be far lower than in western countries, especially if we delegate all these functions to Indian contractors. And that figure of 6 billion equal to 24-30 billion is just hypothetical and meant to show cost ratio of work done in India vs West. And anyway, it doesn't mean that HAL will not spend more if it is essentially required.
they may have a fair bit of idea about infrastructure materials may be built in india over a period of 10 years may be with some collab + some imports.

since hal is making european and russian planes there might be less to add for the infrastructure unless for major changes as ramping up production for 300 planes, helicopters, tejas mark 2 (2 years), sitara(1-2 years), airliner(gradually over 7 years) may nd up with robotics for major things and procure from private companies the less important ones hence any development will be incremental and hence less cost since competing with indian companies will not give any price advantage.

small companies simply cannot stand the monopoly of hal, so any advancements will be in very much needed areas only and on seeing other private manufacturers and their area of expertise there may be no redundant areas. As such engine manufacturing may be a new area where foreign manufacturers will not be wishing to give any support at all.

since americans dosent want indian products after the offsets and europe being immune to military gadgets every move may be incremental and the fate may be bad for these companies after offset season and may end up joining hal for the indian projects.

hence 6 billions may just be enough.when private companies want their part of cake why hal should build every thing.
 
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Rage

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it seems that we are lacking engine test facilities in india so there has to be some investments in this area it can bring sudden benefits to k10 and future engine projects like engines for helicopter and transport.
Yehp, that is a crucial consideration.

Considering we signed a deal in 2005 to manufacture RD-33 series 3 engines at the Koraput factory which was supposed to help in the development of thrust-vectoring engines for the MiG-35 fighters <if that won the MMRCA>, and that we've been working on the GTX-35VS/Kaveri for the LCA Tejas <now AMCA>, meant that we should have had a testing facility in place. But a testing facility requires enhanced technologies that only Russia and the Western world are privy to. That should, I think, be one of the offset requirements for any country that wins the MRCA.
 

sesha_maruthi27

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Guys if private companies do their best to prove themselves then it is going to be good for the country and they should also invest their money for the purpose of the nation's development. My point is that private companies should also do their part in investing money also.
 

venkat

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Aircraft crashes during routine test flight; pilots safe
Bangalore/Chennai, Apr 28, (PTI):

An Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT) prototype aircraft crashed during routine flight test in Tamil Nadu's Krishnagiri district today, but both test pilots ejected to safety, police said.


The IJT S-3466, which was earlier reported as an Advanced Jet Trainer, was on routine flight testing when the mishap occurred in the afternoon, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited said in Bangalore.

The aircraft crashed in a sparsely populated area at Lakshmipuram, preventing any collateral casualties, police said. An IAF helicopter flew the pilots back to Bangalore, they said.
A court of enquiry has been constituted into the crash, HAL said.


http://www.deccanherald.com/content/157367/hal-plane-bangalore-based-pilots.html
 

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