HAL HJT-36 Sitara

[Abhi9]

Good News!

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/iafs-ijt-set-for-spin-test/article7633550.ece

Success means HAL can start planning series production
The Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT), which is being developed as the second rung of the Indian Air Force’s three-level training programme for rookie pilots, is set to undergo its most critical ‘spin' test this month, according to a top executive of Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL).

The spin test, which is at least eight months behind schedule, is seen as an ‘agnipariksha’ when it comes to safety of the pilot and the aircraft during combat.

Success will mean HAL can start planning series production “and we are confident of it (success),” HAL Chairman & Managing Director T. Suvarna Raju told The Hindu.

Work on the twin-seat IJT (or HJT-36) started in 1999. Admitting that the spin test had been an issue, Mr. Raju said, “We expected to spin the aircraft about eight months ago and clear it for series production. We could not spin or stall the aircraft. It is a very crucial job that should be done very carefully, as there is a lot of risk for men and material.”

In the last few months, HAL consulted UK aerospace major BAE Systems on certain design changes. The aircraft was modified and assessed many times over by mathematical modelling and wind tunnel tests.

After the engine stall test, “we are re-assessing the spin characteristics. We are close… after carrying out modifications. I am waiting for the happy news [in the next 20-30 days],” Mr. Raju said.

The IAF requires 85 IJTs. Currently into limited series production, the two prototypes have flown around 1,000 hours since the first flight in March 2003.

Delayed


The spin test was planned for 2013, but was delayed over deciding the engine, delivery from Russia and accidents in 2007, 2009 and 2011. “Today, we are confident that that every problem has found a solution. The aircraft that is going to come out of all this is going to be really worth flying,” Mr. Raju said.

 

[Mikesingh]

We can reach Mars but can't produce a jet trainer? Jeeez! We've been poodle-faking since 1999 trying to get the IJT operational. But.......

But hey! We succeeded in making the chili grenade at last!

 

[Chinmoy]

We can reach Mars but can't produce a jet trainer? Jeeez! We've been poodle-faking since 1999 trying to get the IJT operational. But.......

But hey! We succeeded in making the chili grenade at last!

Dear Mike, the problem is, when you purchase chili from market, you would look upon variety of option you do have. You would look for appealing colour, smell along with taste (which is the basic need for me). More over you would want chili powder from market to add color, texture, taste and god knows what to your curry and sabzi. And when you dont get it, you do have the retailer, wholeseller and the farmer to blame for it. But when it comes to growing the same in your kitchen garden, you would study and try to get the best for you.

The very same happens with ISRO and IAF, IA, IN, HAL, DRDO, ARDE and all .

 

[Blackwater]

design flaw. the air intakes are quite small

 

[blue marlin]

design flaw. the air intakes are quite small

it has two intakes. and it looks just like the bae hawk. i though they stopped development due to it's safety record.
ohh well. its good to solder on

http://indianexpress.com/article/ex...arliament-is-upset-with-the-state-of-defence/

 

[3The Crossbow]

it has two intakes. and it looks just like the bae hawk. i though they stopped development due to it's safety record.
ohh well. its good to solder on

http://indianexpress.com/article/ex...arliament-is-upset-with-the-state-of-defence/
View attachment 5984
View attachment 5985

Better they stop now and instead let IAF use pilatus for IJT too. IAF should slap HAL its been overdue since long.

 

[manindra]

Better they stop now and instead let IAF use pilatus for IJT too. IAF should slap HAL its been overdue since long.

Pilatus a turbo propeller trainer being use as Intermediate Jet Trainer

 

[smestarz]

There are 3 Stages in IAF fligt training
a) Piston engine training, this is what Pilatus is being used

b) Basic Jet training, this is conducted in using IJT (intermediate jet trainer) like Sitara

c) Advance Jet Training is done on HAWK Jet trainer.

Now there are few other advanced training that makes pilot much more combat capable

d) Lead-in fighter training (LIFT)
It utilises advanced jet trainer aircraft with avionics and stores-management capability that emulate operational fighter planes, to provide efficient training in combat scenarios with reduced training costs compared to moving straight to operational conversion. The on-board avionics system may be linked to ground-based systems, and together they can simulate situations such as infrared or radar guided missile, interceptors, air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, anti-aircraft batteries, radars, chaff and flare countermeasures and collision warnings, in low or dense electronic warfare environments. Systems may also be able to re-enact true-to-life combat situation. IAF plans to use Tejas I as LIFT.

e) Operational conversion
Most military aircraft have two-seat trainer versions. These are combat capable operational conversion aircraft types to provide on the job training to pilots who have graduated to this level, and are usually available with little conversion in times of emergency to a reconnaissance or combat role. Most operational conversion aircraft retain the full functionality of the operational version with slight degradations to performance due to increased weight and drag, and possibly reduced range due to a reduced internal fuel load. THIS CONCEPT IS USED A LOT IN RUSSIA AND THEIR TRAINER VERSIONS USUALY HAVE "U" like MiG-29K is naval plane and MiG-29 KUB is trainer, and the U to denote its 2 seat trainer version.

 

[Senyor Sandeep]

I understood what he meant and I meant what I said. To me, his remark displays a lack of pride in the ability of Indians. That is what I don't understand.

Indians are usually self critical to the core. We always believe that the land on the other side of the ocean is the best, regardless of how best our own land it. In shot, we are circus elephants that are tamed to believe the circus master to be more potent than the elephant.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Sitara trainer also poised to enter service

Source : In Tejas' shadow, Sitara trainer also poised to enter service | Business Standard

Keep solving the problems. and make it a state of art trainer. HAL 25 KN engine is coming up. If that is istalled in sitara, its performance shall improve a great deal.

 

[Abhi9]

IJT has statisfactorily completed the CRUCIAL test . Latest Update from Vayu magazine

@BR

 

[G10]

Idrw has a article today saying ijt spin criteria is being tested. Is this a reliable article.

 

[abingdonboy]

Anyone else see the utter futilty of this project now the PC-7 and Hawk are in service? The IJT was begun at a time when the Hawk deal looked like it would never materialise and the Deepak BTTs were on the verge of being grounded. Flash foreward a few years and the situation has totally changed- >100 Hawks in service (more on order) 75 PC-7 Mk.2 BTT in service (another 120+ BTTs to come from HAL....sigh). So where is the need for the IJT now? What does the IJT do that the BTT and AJT can't do? I would understand the need if the AJT was not the Hawk but a supersonic LIFT but the Hawk is subsonic and not indifferent to the IJT in terms of ease of flying.

Many nations that operate the Hawk have their pilots go straight from BTTs to the Hawk then into OCUs (fighters), why is the IAF looking to complicate their training?

Optimal:

Stage 1--->BTT (PC-7/HTT-40)

Stage 2--->AJT (Hawk Mk.132)

Stage 3---> OCU (trainer variant of their respective fighter type)



Instead the IAF needlessly is adding a stage:



Stage 1--->BTT (PC-7/HTT-40)

Stage 2--->IJT (HJT-36)

Stage 3--->AJT (Hawk Mk.132)

Stage 4---> OCU (trainer variant of their respective fighter type)

Someone please explain to me why.



Furthermore, the IAF's aerobatic team (SKAT) have transitioned from the erstwhile IJT (Kiran Mk.2) onto the AJT (Hawk Mk.132) highlighting the utterly redundant nature of the HJT-36 in today's IAF.

@Gessler @Kunal Biswas @HariPrasad-1 @gslv markIII @aditya g

 

[aditya g]

I think a LCA based LIFT may be more value adding. Especially in the navy guise.

Anyone else see the utter futilty of this project now the PC-7 and Hawk are in service? The IJT was begun at a time when the Hawk deal looked like it would never materialise and the Deepak BTTs were on the verge of being grounded. Flash foreward a few years and the situation has totally changed- >100 Hawks in service (more on order) 75 PC-7 Mk.2 BTT in service (another 120+ BTTs to come from HAL....sigh). So where is the need for the IJT now? What does the IJT do that the BTT and AJT can't do? I would understand the need if the AJT was not the Hawk but a supersonic LIFT but the Hawk is subsonic and not indifferent to the IJT in terms of ease of flying.

Many nations that operate the Hawk have their pilots go straight from BTTs to the Hawk then into OCUs (fighters), why is the IAF looking to complicate their training?

Optimal:

Stage 1--->BTT (PC-7/HTT-40)

Stage 2--->AJT (Hawk Mk.132)

Stage 3---> OCU (trainer variant of their respective fighter type)



Instead the IAF needlessly is adding a stage:



Stage 1--->BTT (PC-7/HTT-40)

Stage 2--->IJT (HJT-36)

Stage 3--->AJT (Hawk Mk.132)

Stage 4---> OCU (trainer variant of their respective fighter type)

Someone please explain to me why.



Furthermore, the IAF's aerobatic team (SKAT) have transitioned from the erstwhile IJT (Kiran Mk.2) onto the AJT (Hawk Mk.132) highlighting the utterly redundant nature of the HJT-36 in today's IAF.

@Gessler @Kunal Biswas @HariPrasad-1 @gslv markIII @aditya g

 

[abingdonboy]

I think a LCA based LIFT may be more value adding. Especially in the navy guise.

Now that would actually make a LOT of sense:

Stage 1--->BTT (PC-7/HTT-40)

Stage 2--->AJT (Hawk Mk.132)

Stage 3---> Supersonic LIFT (LCA)

Stage 4--->OCU (trainer variant of their respective fighter type)

There is just too much commonality between the Hawk and Sitara to make inducting both sensible and since the Hawk made it into service with the IAF first then the IJT should be killed. Dragging it out is just unfair and pointless as well as a huge waste of resources.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Now that would actually make a LOT of sense:

Stage 1--->BTT (PC-7/HTT-40)

Stage 2--->AJT (Hawk Mk.132)

Stage 3---> Supersonic LIFT (LCA)

Stage 4--->OCU (trainer variant of their respective fighter type)

There is just too much commonality between the Hawk and Sitara to make inducting both sensible and since the Hawk made it into service with the IAF first then the IJT should be killed. Dragging it out is just unfair and pointless as well as a huge waste of resources.

The question to wonder is if IJT hjt 36 is included in the training what additional benefit does it provide really...

To me what you said is more than optimum but will LCA LIFT see a stage 3 appearance is a question which planners should say clearly..

I fathom, we will end up complicating the whole training schedule for the sake of including IJT in stage 2 and pushing hawks into Stage 3...

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

The question to wonder is if IJT hjt 36 is included in the training what additional benefit does it provide really...

To me what you said is more than optimum but will LCA LIFT see a stage 3 appearance is a question which planners should say clearly..

I fathom, we will end up complicating the whole training schedule for the sake of including IJT in stage 2 and pushing hawks into Stage 3...

Maybe more training experience? But again its a logistic nightmare for IAF.

 

[abingdonboy]

Maybe more training experience? But again its a logistic nightmare for IAF.

They could just have more hours on the AJT or in the sim, if that's the reason there is no need to induct an entirely new platform. The costs involved make me want to cry....

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Maybe more training experience? But again its a logistic nightmare for IAF.

Training experience is good but with such a structure we will actually have a huge gap at stage 3 hawks vs OCU of actual squadrons

hawk top speed of mach 0.84 and OCU variants would be over mach 1.5 approx.. The gap is huge..

We needed a training craft for Mach 1.2-1.4 zone of training so that OCU workload is less..

After all training simulators will give our pilots limited experience for modern jets if the basic training has not covered the supersonic part of training regime.

we must not forget training ocu frames also will have a limited airframe life. and with pilot needs of say a fleet of 850 jets with 350 double seater or 700 pilots there and 500 single seater pilots thats 1200 pilots .. and stipulated requirement is 1.25 times implying 1500 pilots needed for combat roles for IAF,

this implies a huge number of impetus will be on simulators.. and with limited OCUs, the stress on meeting requirements of this many pilots will be a bit too much to ask for.. and without basic supersonic training regime.. its a very tough ask.

on top the 250 hour a year cap could make it even more challenging..

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Training experience is good but with such a structure we will actually have a huge gap at stage 3 hawks vs OCU of actual squadrons

hawk top speed of mach 0.84 and OCU variants would be over mach 1.5 approx.. The gap is huge..

We needed a training craft for Mach 1.2-1.4 zone of training so that OCU workload is less..

After all training simulators will give our pilots limited experience for modern jets if the basic training has not covered the supersonic part of training regime.

we must not forget training ocu frames also will have a limited airframe life. and with pilot needs of say a fleet of 850 jets with 350 double seater or 700 pilots there and 500 single seater pilots thats 1200 pilots .. and stipulated requirement is 1.25 times implying 1500 pilots needed for combat roles for IAF,

this implies a huge number of impetus will be on simulators.. and with limited OCUs, the stress on meeting requirements of this many pilots will be a bit too much to ask for.. and without basic supersonic training regime.. its a very tough ask.

on top the 250 hour a year cap could make it even more challenging..

We have a 250 hours an year cap on OCU training?