HAL developing new varaint LCA-1P

A chauhan

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With infrastructure set up, key technologies developed, process understood and evaluated under LCA project ; AMCA project may not see the delay and technical difficulties LCA suffered. US did the stealth research openly and manually in the area-51 almost 60 years ago without sophisticated computers, now we have softwares and advanced computers to simulate and test the design and the RCS in the lab, RAM coating has already been developed by the DRDO. So we wont face so much challenges in the stealth but in the engines and indigenous AESA Nice article #174 :)
 

ersakthivel

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Thank you Ranjan Babu for such lucidly written article in Orissa Diary. Your article will help the non-technical, layman readers to understand LCA-Tejas.
As usual there are a host of errors in the article,

mistake-1. LCA SUFFERED NO DELAYS ON ACCOUNT OF KAVERI.ALL LSPSs were run with GE 404 and SPs too will follow the same way.

mistake-2-LCA was modeled on Gnat or Mig-21, which is the line parroted by tech illiterate article writers who dont want to go deep into the aims of program. The specs for LCA was not that of a mix of Gnat and mig-21. The specs of LCA was that of a mix of mirage-2000 and mig-29, two of the most potent fighters even today.

1.The low clean config RCS,
2.Relaxed Static Stability(RSS) fly by wire tech,
3.all composite outer skin with higher percentage of composites in body weight,
4.full glass cockpit,
5.now delivered OBORG , with mid air refueling qualifying it for longer range strikes and longer time patrol
6.HMDS enabled visually cued high off bore WVR missiles firing capability(python and R-73E)
7.litening pod to fire LGBs,
8 the now proposed ASEA radar for tejas mk-1A with a large 750 m dia radome, (bigger than that of gripen and rafale) ,
9. DRFM based Ew suit,
10, With a LEVCOn enabled naval variant built into it from the inception,
11, Ability to take off and land with decent weapon load from high altitude Himalayan air fields like Leh(4 of the 6 famed MMRCA contenders failed this test in Leh!!!)

means this fighter was not a replacement for old age second world war fighters but a true multi role modern 4.5th gen fighter.

" From LCA decision being taken 1983, till the final operational clearance in Q1 2016 is 33 years – which seems very long. But after removing 4 years for funding gap (from 1989, when project definition was finished, till 1993, no funds were made available to LCA project) and 4 more for sanction issues, LCA project took 25 years. Ideally, world over a fighter jet project takes more than 20 years."

Typically wrong set of statements, which is usually written about tejas program,

the 500 cr that was sanctioned in 1983 went into establishing test facilities, paying foreign consultants, building non existent labs and infra and for project definition.

Only in 1993 2500 crore was sanctioned for building two TDs, and PVs.

So from 1993 to IOC in 2013 twenty years is no monumental delay, if you deduct the confiscation of fly by wire equipment and sofware in US due to N test sanction, and the new requirements raised by IAF in the form of higher weight, higher launching stress R-73 E instead of older low weight R-60(according to CAG report, this led to FSED phase two because of the need to redesign the entire wing structure to take the heavier loads and contribute more than 80 months of delay)

When all the facts are out in the open , a better background check in web would have corrected these mistakes.

Infact the rafale and eurofigter program took much longer, (eurofighter still not fully qualified for ground strikes!!)
 
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ersakthivel

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INDIA's Indigenous fighter aircarft programme: what we learnt from Past

The criticisms are not new, the development is slow and they say time is constant here like a black hole circling over India. Many shortfalls and many waivers but still to see the bird on IAF’s hand, yes am talking about HAL Tejas (LCA), will take you back to 1960’s with up and downs in Indian aerospace industry and finally a glimpse of hope with a big order and future development plan.
What you need to have became credible force in Aerospace
Major world powers have capability to design, develop and manufacture fighter aircraft indigenously. Technically, this would include all major components - aero-engines, radar, aircraft design, metallurgy, weapons and sensors. Currently only USA, Russia, France and UK have these capabilities and are followed closely by Germany, Italy, China and Sweden.
Background
Good start but poor follow-up has continued to challenge India’s desire to master aerospace technology. India’s desire to build its own fighter jet began well with the HF-24 Marut program. The project was approved in 1957 and the first prototype flew in 1961 - a mere four years later. The first squadron went operational in 1967. However, the program encountered a premature end in 1982 due to the short-sightedness of the IAF, Government and HAL. The political leadership and the bureaucracy displayed inexperience and strategic carelessness during HF-24 Marut development and operational life. The end result was withering away of precious knowledge gained over the development. During the same period, HAL shifted its focus to production of MiG-21s under license.
The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) decision was taken in 1983 in order to replace aging MiG-21s manufactured during 1970's and 80's, as most of them were expected to be phased out in the 1990s. The indigenous design and development of LCA was sanctioned in 1983 and Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) was constituted in June 1984. IAF issued requirement in October 1985 with a projected requirement of 220 aircrafts (200 fighters and 20 trainers), to be inducted by 1994.
Why LCA, as opposed to MCAs (Rafale, Eurofighter) or HCAs (Sukhoi 30 Mki)?
This concept of LCA has been a source of much study and research to achieve performance requirements at affordable cost. This became more feasible in the jet age as emphasis shifted to getting the same performance with relatively lower thrust engine. The Gnat aircraft, which the IAF flew effectively in 1965 and 1971 wars, was a light weight fighter whose performance in its category was excellent, at minimal cost. This left a lasting impression on IAF and hence the decision for LCA.
What went wrong? Or did anything go wrong, at all?
Prima facie, the perceived delay in the LCA project can be blamed on the lack of co-ordination between user (IAF), designer (ADA), manufacturer (HAL) and the Government, which made it impossible to deliver the LCA project in time. And one wrong was done more over the other – clubbing of Kaveri engine project with LCA. Kaveri engine got delayed because of India’s lack of experience in building turbofan engines. India did tie-ups with unreliable American companies at a time of not-so-good relations, and nuclear tests resulted in sanctions, which pushed back the project by few more years. From LCA decision being taken 1983, till the final operational clearance in Q1 2016 is 33 years – which seems very long. But after removing 4 years for funding gap (from 1989, when project definition was finished, till 1993, no funds were made available to LCA project) and 4 more for sanction issues, LCA project took 25 years. Ideally, world over a fighter jet project takes more than 20 years.
To build a fourth generation fighter aircraft from scratch with a countrywide aerospace ecosystem and research, testing and certification facilities in less than three decades is, by any standards, remarkable technology leapfrog. Anywhere in the world it would draw generous praise but in India, thanks to media attention with questionable intent. Even while mentioning reasons for delays in the program, DM Manohar Parikar agreed in Parliament that lack of trained engineers, infrastructure, including test facilities had played a major role.
How good is HAL Tejas (LCA) and where it headed from here?
Tejas test pilots continue to believe that the aircraft is more versatile than MiG-29 (primarily built for air-to-air combat), MiG-27 and Jaguar (primarily ground strike aircraft), and all variants of the MiG-21. They even say it can take on the Pakistan Air Force’s early F-16 variants and outclass the Sino-Pakistani JF-17 Thunder. Deliveries of combat standard units of Tejas Mk-I began on 17 January 2015, with final operational clearance (FOC) expected Q1 2016. In a major breakthrough IAF recently ordered 120 HAL Tejas. IAF wants the final version should have advanced (AESA) radar, air to air refueling, BVR missiles and electronic jammers to block enemy radars.
Future Developments
ADA is also working on an improved version, HAL Tejas Mk-II, with greater capability based on Indian Navy’s prolonged requirements. Looking into higher drag on water surface HAL Tejas Mk-II will be powered with GE F-414 engines that produce 98kN of peak thrust. Apart from engine, Tejas Mk-II will feature upgraded avionics, more advanced radar and longer combat radius.
Meanwhile a nation surrounded with two aggressive neighbors can’t afford to have just fourth generation fighter. The Chinese today are flying two fifth generation fighter prototypes, one of the fighter J-20 going to be in series production from next year onwards and intended to export to friendly nations. While India realized the situation back in 2008 and started a JV with Russia to develop fifth generation fighter (FGFA) but lack of co-ordination between the nations stalled the project sometime back and IAF now wants to buy Russian version of FGFA T-50 on Government to Government agreement.
Meanwhile IAF with his local partner ADA wants to develop an indigenous fifth generation fighter (AMCA). At the moment the project is out of definition phase and entering to funding phase. AMCA is a much bigger program compared to LCA, in LCA the country leapfrogged from nowhere to fourth generation fighter aircraft. In case of AMCA while the LCA platform will help us, however, our scientist needs to crack number crucial technology like advance radar, Stealth technology and high power engine, currently USA and Russia possesses the technology and China somehow successful. To make the project successful we need larger Research and development base with serious funding upfront.
Now, the good news
In the process of building an indigenous fighter aircraft, India has almost solved the puzzle of fighter aircraft building. With favorable conditions, and proper planning, the successor of Kaveri engines will hopefully be ready by the time India is ready to produce the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). The LCA project has built India’s capabilities in fighter aircraft production from ground up. India can repeat the same success story with AMCA, only this time faster. As they say, it is only hard the first time!

http://orissadiary.com/ShowOriyaColumn.asp?id=62729
mistake-1. LCA SUFFERED NO DELAYS ON ACCOUNT OF KAVERI.ALL LSPSs were run with GE 404 and SPs too will follow the same way.

mistake-2-LCA was modeled on Gnat or Mig-21, which is the line parroted by tech illiterate article writers who dont want to go deep into the aims of program. The specs for LCA was not that of a mix of Gnat and mig-21. The specs of LCA was that of a mix of mirage-2000 and mig-29, two of the most potent fighters even today.

1.The low clean config RCS,
2.Relaxed Static Stability(RSS) fly by wire tech,
3.all composite outer skin with higher percentage of composites in body weight,
4.full glass cockpit,
5.now delivered OBORG , with mid air refueling qualifying it for longer range strikes and longer time patrol
6.HMDS enabled visually cued high off bore WVR missiles firing capability(python and R-73E)
7.litening pod to fire LGBs,
8 the now proposed ASEA radar for tejas mk-1A with a large 750 m dia radome, (bigger than that of gripen and rafale) ,
9. DRFM based Ew suit,
10, With a LEVCOn enabled naval variant built into it from the inception,
11, Ability to take off and land with decent weapon load from high altitude Himalayan air fields like Leh(4 of the 6 famed MMRCA contenders failed this test in Leh!!!)

means this fighter was not a replacement for old age second world war fighters but a true multi role modern 4.5th gen fighter.

" From LCA decision being taken 1983, till the final operational clearance in Q1 2016 is 33 years – which seems very long. But after removing 4 years for funding gap (from 1989, when project definition was finished, till 1993, no funds were made available to LCA project) and 4 more for sanction issues, LCA project took 25 years. Ideally, world over a fighter jet project takes more than 20 years."

Typically wrong set of statements, which is usually written about tejas program,

the 500 cr that was sanctioned in 1983 went into establishing test facilities, paying foreign consultants, building non existent labs and infra and for project definition.

Only in 1993 2500 crore was sanctioned for building two TDs, and PVs.

So from 1993 to IOC in 2013 twenty years is no monumental delay, if you deduct the confiscation of fly by wire equipment and sofware in US due to N test sanction, and the new requirements raised by IAF in the form of higher weight, higher launching stress R-73 E instead of older low weight R-60(according to CAG report, this led to FSED phase two because of the need to redesign the entire wing structure to take the heavier loads and contribute more than 80 months of delay)

When all the facts are out in the open , a better background check in web would have corrected these mistakes.

Infact the rafale and eurofigter program took much longer, (eurofighter still not fully qualified for ground strikes!!)

Another mistake is "This concept of LCA has been a source of much study and research to achieve performance requirements at affordable cost. This became more feasible in the jet age as emphasis shifted to getting the same performance with relatively lower thrust engine."

In fighters the key figure indicating effective STR, ITR , top speeds and agility is not the numerical total wet thrust numbers but the ratio -Thrust to Weight Ratio-(TWR)- total wet thrust / (empty weight of the fighter+ half the weight of total internal fuel load).

It is this factor that is the key in deciding fighter effectiveness. along with wing loading(total wing area/ emoty weight of the fighter). Wing loading must be low to enable faster Instantaneous Turn Rates and higher Sustained turn Rates as well. tejas has the lowest wing loading among all modern fighters.

Tejas mk1 is way better than mirage-2000 in both wing loading and thrust to weight ratio.

And as far as TWR is concerned Tejas mk1 compares favorably with gripen C and if weight reduction of 800 Kg is achieved, it will inch closed to gripen E , rafale, and typhoon class almost closer to mig-29.

So as far as mig-29s, rafales and typhoons are relevant tejas mk1A and mk2 will compare with them and will be relevant too.

So it is not as if tejas mk1 A is a mere consolation prize , whose only contribution is to create infra for AMCA as it was written in the article, tejas mk1 A itself is a state of the art 4.5 th gen omni role or multi role or swing role fighter with capability to operate from high himalayan air fields like Leh,

If coupled with S-400 , now being purchased for target acquisition , the effectiveness of tejas air patrol increases manifold. In fact there is no other cost effective high performance fighter that is tailor made to operate from our western forward air fields and high himalayan air fields. You can not put high value figters like FGFA, Su-30 MKi and rafale out there in those forward airfields, which is the practice followed world over, these high value assets are usually housed in deeper hinterland air fields.

Tejas mk1 itself will better mirage-2000 in combat performance ,due to lower wing loading and higher TWR than mirage-2000.

And mk1 A with ASEA , EW suit and lesser weight is as good as gripen E to say the least.

Also the supposed high drag due to sudden increase in cross section from 4 meters to 5 meters length along the fuselage which is pointed out in CEMILAC report is relevant "ONLY IN FAILURE TO ACHIEVE TO ACHIEVE A SUPERSONIC TOP SPEED OF MACH 1.2". In no other way it hampers the ITR, STR and other close combat performance.

Why?

Because the sudden increase in cross section contributes to extra WAVE DRAG component only in SUPER SONIC flight as per area ruling method. Most of the STR , ITR specs which determine the combat effectiveness of fighters is always stated in sub sonic flight regime where there wont be any extra wave drag component from the sudden cross section increase.

So please correct these mistakes and write another factually accurate spot on article in the same news paper and send it to all other national news paper. i am mightily interested in seeing the reaction for such an article , looking forward to your next article on the eve of FOC or even now encapsulating all the facts I listed in this post.

Because till today most articles on tejas are written on the lines of your article, Gnat replacement, huge delay of thirty years. kaveri engine fiasco, obsolete tech, high drag low thrust etc, etc,
I am very interested to see if you you put a contrarian view point stating every one of the above is false and tejas mk1 A is as good as grippen E.
 
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tejas warrior

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As usual there are a host of errors in the article,

mistake-1. LCA SUFFERED NO DELAYS ON ACCOUNT OF KAVERI.ALL LSPSs were run with GE 404 and SPs too will follow the same way.

mistake-2-LCA was modeled on Gnat or Mig-21, which is the line parroted by tech illiterate article writers who dont want to go deep into the aims of program. The specs for LCA was not that of a mix of Gnat and mig-21. The specs of LCA was that of a mix of mirage-2000 and mig-29, two of the most potent fighters even today.

1.The low clean config RCS,
2.Relaxed Static Stability(RSS) fly by wire tech,
3.all composite outer skin with higher percentage of composites in body weight,
4.full glass cockpit,
5.now delivered OBORG , with mid air refueling qualifying it for longer range strikes and longer time patrol
6.HMDS enabled visually cued high off bore WVR missiles firing capability(python and R-73E)
7.litening pod to fire LGBs,
8 the now proposed ASEA radar for tejas mk-1A with a large 750 m dia radome, (bigger than that of gripen and rafale) ,
9. DRFM based Ew suit,
10, With a LEVCOn enabled naval variant built into it from the inception,
11, Ability to take off and land with decent weapon load from high altitude Himalayan air fields like Leh(4 of the 6 famed MMRCA contenders failed this test in Leh!!!)

means this fighter was not a replacement for old age second world war fighters but a true multi role modern 4.5th gen fighter.

" From LCA decision being taken 1983, till the final operational clearance in Q1 2016 is 33 years – which seems very long. But after removing 4 years for funding gap (from 1989, when project definition was finished, till 1993, no funds were made available to LCA project) and 4 more for sanction issues, LCA project took 25 years. Ideally, world over a fighter jet project takes more than 20 years."

Typically wrong set of statements, which is usually written about tejas program,

the 500 cr that was sanctioned in 1983 went into establishing test facilities, paying foreign consultants, building non existent labs and infra and for project definition.

Only in 1993 2500 crore was sanctioned for building two TDs, and PVs.

So from 1993 to IOC in 2013 twenty years is no monumental delay, if you deduct the confiscation of fly by wire equipment and sofware in US due to N test sanction, and the new requirements raised by IAF in the form of higher weight, higher launching stress R-73 E instead of older low weight R-60(according to CAG report, this led to FSED phase two because of the need to redesign the entire wing structure to take the heavier loads and contribute more than 80 months of delay)

When all the facts are out in the open , a better background check in web would have corrected these mistakes.

Infact the rafale and eurofigter program took much longer, (eurofighter still not fully qualified for ground strikes!!)
True, eurofighter still not fully qualified for ground strikes!!
 

ersakthivel

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http://idrw.org/the-human-cost-of-indias-lca-program/#more-79108

See anotgher fake articles, it is raining fake articles now!!!


Almost all of the 53 shortcommings are rectified and ASEA radar and external state of the art EW pod is being added in mk 1A, but the journo seems ignorant of the fact and writes another import lobby piece.

A sure indication that tejas has turned the corner and on its way to mass production!!!
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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http://idrw.org/the-human-cost-of-indias-lca-program/#more-79108

See anotgher fake articles, it is raining fake articles now!!!


Almost all of the 53 shortcommings are rectified and ASEA radar and external state of the art EW pod is being added in mk 1A, but the journo seems ignorant of the fact and writes another import lobby piece.

A sure indication that tejas has turned the corner and on its way to mass production!!!
One of the stupidest article I have read.

Pilots dying in Mig-21 form 2 out of 5 paragraphs with no relation established with Tejas whatsoever. But the author keeps writing about Mig design!!
 

prasadr14

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One of the stupidest article I have read.

Pilots dying in Mig-21 form 2 out of 5 paragraphs with no relation established with Tejas whatsoever. But the author keeps writing about Mig design!!
That's how these media houses pimp themselves for foreign weapon manufacturers.
Defence acquisition for few decades is without a doubt one of the most corrupt ridden rot hole..
 

pmaitra

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http://idrw.org/the-human-cost-of-indias-lca-program/#more-79108

See anotgher fake articles, it is raining fake articles now!!!


Almost all of the 53 shortcommings are rectified and ASEA radar and external state of the art EW pod is being added in mk 1A, but the journo seems ignorant of the fact and writes another import lobby piece.

A sure indication that tejas has turned the corner and on its way to mass production!!!
IDRW did a copy-pasta from The Diplomat: http://thediplomat.com/2015/11/the-human-cost-of-indias-lca-program/
 

Punya Pratap

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All the hokus-pokus aside can anyone please tell me why can't the LCA 1A be equipped with an IRST??
Since we are making the MK 1A with cutting edge electronic warfare and AESA can't we go the full yard and add IRST?? I hope we can put an indigenous IRST on it and that would really make the MK 1A the finest LCA in the world!
 

ash2win

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http://idrw.org/the-human-cost-of-indias-lca-program/#more-79108

See anotgher fake articles, it is raining fake articles now!!!


Almost all of the 53 shortcommings are rectified and ASEA radar and external state of the art EW pod is being added in mk 1A, but the journo seems ignorant of the fact and writes another import lobby piece.

A sure indication that tejas has turned the corner and on its way to mass production!!!

The week when the order was announced
 

Hari Sud

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There are too many websites pushing less than good articles/analysis. IDRW is one, but a number of websites have proliferated in last five years. It has become easy to rent website space and then begin your own site. Copy paste is key methodology. But definitely it is hard work in order to make a living with this method. Attracting advertisers is not easy.

"The Diplomat" is another website. In fact it was a print magazine from Noida Delhi, until about four years back. I used to write in it for free. It closed down its Delhi office for good. They still owned the trade mark over the name and reappeared in Japan. That is what you are seeing now. It hires lower end journalists to write on assigned topics, mostly chosen by them. That is why sensationalism like Indian media has multiplied infinitely in this magazine. Articles you read in The Diplomat are sensational and untruthful. It is like catching a rumour whether true or untrue and blow it out of proportion.

Then we have the Indian media. There are two many news channels on TV. I do not believe they are making any money but the trick of the game is to outdo the other guy and hence the audience stays revitted to the screen. There are no checks and balances for the editorial staff. Every thing whether truthful or far from the truth becomes the news. For the owners, this 24 hour news broadcast is cash drain. Hence they want audience and the audience comes by sensationalize the news. The print media of the same owner is less likely to be sensational. They have a reputation to protect.

Take everything now in the media with a grain of salt.
 

ersakthivel

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http://idrw.org/government-prepares...indias-biggest-ever-defence-order/#more-79869

All the " tents of "obselte tejas-So import multi billion dollar fighters " lobby is hopefully folding up now.

http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/dss/2009/main/2-CEMILAC.pdf

"that the drag of the aircraft is high such that the aircraft could not reach the supersonic Mach number at sea level. The components contributing for the maximum drag rise has been identified and improvement methods were worked out.

Nose cone extension using a Plug:

The major component of drag at higher speed is the wave drag.

This can be minimized by following the Whitcomb’s Area rule for the aerodynamic configuration design. The cross sectional area variation of LCA along the length of fuselage is shown in Fig 12.

Between station X = 5000mm & 6000mm there is a sudden increase in area. By smoothing this sudden rise, the wave drag can be minimized.

A possible solution proposed is the extension of nose cone by introducing a Plug. The detailed analysis of this design and its implementation plan is being worked out."


But still, manmohan bhahdur's statement -- regarding stretching oif fuselage is far from truth, Stretching fuselage was primarly for the purpose of reducing the wave drag so that tejas mk2 can achieve a supersonic top speed of mach 1.2 at sea level as per ex chief of CEMILAC-Tamilmani's report.

It is this plug which later changed into fuselage stretch for tejas mk2 so much so that former ADA chief Subramanium went as far to say that due to better finess ratio tejas mk2 will have less over all drag than tejas mk1


But manmohan bahadur insists that stretching of fuselage is for maintanence pupose only!!!
 
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ersakthivel

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http://idrw.org/lca-navy-mk-2-is-green-while-airforce-variant-is-on-hold-sources/#more-80905

Well, "Informed sources" have already shut down tejas mk2, while naval version is allowed.

The guy cant understand the difference between naval tejas mk2 and IAF tejas mk2 even to save his life, is quoting informed sources,,

No one develops a powerful new version of a fighter just for 50 or so orders from indian navy is a small inconvenient truth that is sought to be brushed aside by this import lobby planted news!!!

http://idrw.org/dassault-to-assist-with-lca-navy-mk-2/#more-80053

More of the same silly stuff that is faking as news!!!!

tejas mk2 is a ground up naval fighter !!! So if a lighter landing gear replaces naval tejas mk2 's heavier landing gear, may be it wont be able to fly in the air!!!!!

Such wishful thinking of import lobby is forwarded as news!!!
 

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I would suggest people to stop comparing LCA with JF 17. LCA as I understand in the 80s was aimed at replacing MiG 21s, but with new requirements set by the IAF, it has almost been forced to be redesigned to replace Mirage 2000, which it has successfully been able to and with the additional improved versions and more powerful engines & radar, it is inching closer to Saab Gripen which was one of the fighter jets that competed in the MMRCA contest. JF 17 is not even a 4th gen fighter and people comparing Tejas with that is just insulting. What would be very interesting is to make a tabular comparison between Tejas Mk1a, Mk2, Saab Gripen and F-16 Falcon.

It would also be great if ADA & HAL would come up with a completely new design to develop a twin Kaveri engine based advanced medium combat aircraft(AMCA).

If this happens, we would then have
Tejas Mk1A which replaces Mirage 2000 and MiG 21s,
The new AMCA that could replace Jaguar, MiG 23, MiG 27 and MiG 29.
Tejas Mk2 that would be almost close to a MMRCA (Saab Gripen).
Sukhoi Su 30 MKI and probably T-50 FGFA advanced fighters

This would be a remarkable achievement in terms of making our air force use indigenous birds. Hope and pray that Mr. Modi should win the elections again in 2019 with a majority, so that by 2024, we would be able to see a navy, airforce with maximum indigenization.

@ash2win Can I use your picture on Tejas to share it with some of my friends on twitter to show how the import lobby is peeing on its pants with Tejas's evolution and final operational clearance?

Cheers.
 
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indiandefencefan

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If this happens, we would then have
Tejas Mk1A which replaces Mirage 2000 and MiG 21s,
The new AMCA that could replace Jaguar, MiG 23, MiG 27 and MiG 29.
Tejas Mk2 that would be almost close to a MMRCA (Saab Gripen).
Sukhoi Su 30 MKI and probably T-50 FGFA advanced fighters


@ash2win Can I use your picture on Tejas to share it with some of my friends on twitter to show how the import lobby is peeing on its pants with Tejas's evolution and final operational clearance?

Cheers.
@Certified Gipsy I don't believe that the IAF will go for the LCA Mrk.2. They will most likely settle for LCA 1p, an upgraded LCA Mrk.1 as it meets their operational requirements.

If the IAF waits for LCA Mrk.2 then HAL has stated that it will have to push the AMCA timeline even further because it cant build both the LCA Mrk.2 and the AMCA at the same time.

Thus I believe we should remove the LCA Mrk.2 from any future prospects as it will most likely be replaced with LCA 1p so as to hasten the development of the AMCA.

As for the FGFA its future too looks bleak.
The Govt. was unable to resolve any dispute on the FGFA even after Modi's visit to Moscow last December.
The IAF also on the other have been critisising the PAK-FA calling it unsufficient for their requirements as 5th gen. fighter.

Recently, Russia "froze" India out of the the joint MTA project citing differences in opinion between UAC and HAL.
I fear this might also come true for FGFA.

So while Mrk.2 looks to be replaced by the LCA 1p the future of FGFA also hangs by a thread.
 

guru-dutt

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Some interesting snippets from Tejas FB page all in Jan 2016.. They do answer questions !!!
Address: Tejas - LCA

Q: Whats MK1A
A: Tejas - LCA MK1A will primarily address the maintenance issues plus the gun integration, AESA radar integration, BVR integration (whenever IAF gives a clear indication on the kind of BVR) etc..

Q: what are the potential BVR missiles under consideration? Derby + Astra?
A: Tejas - LCA ASTRA for sure. LCA Derby will be for the naval version.

Q: how the new quartz radome frm cobham test is going on. Any timeline for SP-2 in coming days.
A: Tejas - LCA SP 2 will come up soon. Cobham radome ground integration checks are over. The actual flight testing will commence soon.

Q: question related to CG. Is Mk1 still flying around with a 300kg ballast. Or is this a modern myth.
A: Tejas - LCA Flies with ballast but the no is not this big in number.

Q: And this is expected to come down after the IFR probe is bolted on? Is it likely that this ballast is completely done away with restructuring and reorganizing the LRUs/MLG on the Mk1A. Reports claim so. I have learnt not to believe reports. Of course. I just meant ballast commiserate to the weight of just the probe to be added will come off
A: Tejas - LCA You are absolutely right, Sir. The IFR probe will reduce the ballast weight. As currently, only the prototypes are flying, the ballast is a variable. Once, the final version, rather the frozen SOP starts flying, things will streamline. Sir, the last of the LSPs are getting modified for the IFR probe.

Q: Your gun integration on Mk1A has fluttered some feathers. Won't Mk1 have a gun?
A: Tejas - LCA The gun integration was initially part of mark1. However, will be done post FOC thereby appropriately for mark 1A.
All other programs, gun is the first store to be integrated onto a fighter simply because the uncertain modifications it demands post testing. The other program houses will never reveal the experiences which they have earned in a harder way. Same is applied to us too.
However, the initial integration activity shows promise. It is only a matter of when will the prototype be offered to carry out the modifications.


Q: what is the reason for the slow integration of the sp series aircraft been waiting for the sp 2 and 3...also are we moving closer wrt to naval lca LG weight issue
A:Tejas - LCA You are right. The undercarriage issue has been creating sort of delay in everything. The sp1 not flying is one of them. However, the issue has been left behind and things will be better in the days to come.

Q: Is it true that there are issues with the landing gear..there were some news reports about this..(dint believe the reports..)
A :Tejas - LCA Please understand that any design bound to have problems and remains to be seen how do we solve it. All the aircraft programs all over the world have undergone this process. Yes, there were problems and got sorted out too. Please be assured that the correct picture can be seen only when it is seen and understood from close quartet. Reports are always exaggerated or according to the convince to the reporting agency.

Q: There are press reports that LSP-4/7 that're off to Bahrain Air show, would perform the BVR firing (Derby) tests for FOC after they have returned from it (i.e. post 23-Jan). Question is, does this mean that LSP-4/7 are already retrofitted with Cobham built quartz radomes - or are they going to go ahead with BVR testing with the old ASLs Kevlar based radome?
A: Tejas - LCA Lsp4 and lsp7 are heading for bahrain and on the return leg, lsp7 will fire bvr. Cobham radome ground testing is on. Flight test will commence soon. BVR firing is without this.

Q: why are we experiencing delay in SP manufacturing.By now we should have 4 SP flying.Is there change in plan as to Whether these SP will IOC or FOC standard or are these modified to SOP-18 fighter.Please clarify ,i hope its the latter.
A: Tejas - LCA The directive as of now is that the first 20 ac will be with present configuration. The rest no is with SOP-18. This is,a wise decision looking at the time line HAL is seeking. The mark 1A needs all heavy gun's interference and an honest dedicated effort from all to realize.
And coming to delay in SP is because there are still grey areas in getting the finalized production version of all the components. The no runs to couple of thousands. All said done, delay is primarily because of lack of a clear cut directive. If you look at mirage 2000 induction, the integration of sensors was a continuous process whereas it is expected from tejas to have everything in the beginning itself, which is a tough ask.


Q: Will 4 SPs be produced by end of this financial year as per the target?
A: Tejas - LCA That's the target. 3 is a possible no.

Q: sir, regarding sop18 or mk1a is it really true we are looking to reduce weight of aircraft by 800kgs??
A: Tejas - LCA I doubt this figure, sir.

Q: What are issues with LCA for integration of gun ? As it is very important for any fighter jet.
A: Tejas - LCA Priorities. As of now, proving the capabilities to fire a BVR has taken the attention. Air Force is not much keen on GSH-23.

Q: In earlier post you mentioned integration of Gsh 23 is deferred. I thought ground runs of gun firing from Tejas has been already done? So what has been deferred, is it in flight test firing of gun or actual gsh 23 has been removed all together from LCA, for now?
>Are private companies being roped in for commercial production of numerous components?
>Last what missile the Tejas is carrying on outboard pylons? Doesnt seem r73 or even python, are they smoke generator pods?
A: Tejas - LCA Answer to q1 - you are right. The ground integration checks called butt firing tests have been done. The required structural mod also have been done. The prototype has been identified. It is the directive of IAF towards FOC requirement has been under discussion.
Answer to q2 will be political from our side, hence would like to avoid. Hope, you excuse us..
Answer to Q3 - yes, they are smoke winders normally uninstalled to produce smoke during demonstrations and specific flight testing task.




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@indiandefencefan I beg to disagree with your opinions on LCA MK2. F414 engines are already being delivered and Mark 2 will be a reality if not for the IAF, atleast for the navy in the initial stage. With the negotiations on Rafale still not completed, there is a greater chance that India will walk out of Rafale, in which case it needs a MMRCA alternative. Tejas MK2 will almost be similar to Saab Gripen which was also one of the jets that took part in the MMRCA competition. What I believe could probably happen is that the Defense ministry would force HAL & ADA to outsource their designs to Indian private companies, most probably Mahindra or Reliance who would then have the license to manufacture LCA MK2, sell in India and export to friendly nations. Or it could also be possible that a new company would be floated out of ADA & HAL, with a new production facility to specifically focus on AMCA, while the existing facilities focus on MK1a and MK2.

Regarding FGFA, it has been reported that the Russians have told India that they would sell S400, only when we commit to the FGFA joint development. India has already decided that it needs S400 and hence, I believe they will soon renegotiate a package consisting of S400 and T-50. May be they are analyzing possible alternatives of S400 now. I will wait and watch if Ms. Sushma Swaraj who is going to Israel today would initiate a negotiation for the Iron dome.
 
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@indiandefencefan I beg to disagree with your opinions on LCA MK2. F414 engines are already being delivered and Mark 2 will be a reality if not for the IAF, atleast for the navy in the initial stage. With the negotiations on Rafale still not completed, there is a greater chance that India will walk out of Rafale, in which case it needs a MMRCA alternative. Tejas MK2 will almost be similar to Saab Gripen which was also one of the jets that took part in the MMRCA competition. What I believe could probably happen is that the Defense ministry would force HAL & ADA to outsource their designs to Indian private companies, most probably Mahindra or Reliance who would then have the license to manufacture LCA MK2, sell in India and export to friendly nations. Or it could also be possible that a new company would be floated out of ADA & HAL, with a new production facility to specifically focus on AMCA, while the existing facilities focus on MK1a and MK2.

Regarding FGFA, it has been reported that the Russians have told India that they would sell S400, only when we commit to the FGFA joint development. India has already decided that it needs S400 and hence, I believe they will soon renegotiate a package consisting of S400 and T-50. May be they are analyzing possible alternatives of S400 now. I will wait and watch if Ms. Sushma Swaraj who is going to Israel today would initiate a negotiation for the Iron dome.
Iron dome is nowhere comparable to s400 different categories.
 

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