HAL Advanced Light Helicopter Dhruv

[Sachinananda]

It's really tragic
May be both the pilots would have attained veergati as no news have come about their condition
I don't want to say our crash rate is very poor compared to other countries
I am talking about both IA and IAF
Again I don't want to say but just asking possibilities
Either
a) pilots are not being trained enough or courses aren't properly made as we have seen many pilot errors in our nation
b)serviceability and maintaining is poor by our Ground crew
Being a nation who has used various types of aircraft in peace time and war time and basically a combat experiences flying ecosystem is not able to properly maintain and train pilots is bit unacceptable
Again my views, not questioning the capabilities of armed forces just wanted to know the real cause

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Considering only around 350 Dhruvs have been built so far, the crash record is pretty bad. Including today's one, thats

View attachment 177847

Thats a 5% crash rate. Whats a common crash rate for other helicopters out there?

Apache had 66 fatalities/74 crashes in the same timeframe and there are around 1300 apaches made.

 

[STORE]

Check my updated comment.

13 crashes worldwide since 2018.

and I believe non of them operate in Himalayan conditions.

Yes true . First of all am not blaming Dhruv. Second am not comparing it with Apache. U.S operates 5 times more helecopters than us, for them losing 5 Apaches in 5 years may not effect as much as India losing 7 ALH in 6 years as of today.

 

[AVAST]

Helis are unreliable by design. It all comes down to engine . Private helis sometimes operate for more than 6-8 hours a day and you don't hear news of them crashing often. western helis are far more reliable than Russian or Indian-made Dhruvs. Pawan hans had Mi 8/17 and they were grounded most of the time. According to HAL employees working on Dhruvs in BBSR airport these are expensive and unreliable so private owners would prefer foreign Helis if Hal made civilian versions.

 

[Sachinananda]

Helis are unreliable by design. It all comes down to engine . Private helis sometimes operate for more than 6-8 hours a day and you don't hear news of them crashing often. western helis are far more reliable than Russian or Indian-made Dhruvs. Pawan hans had Mi 8/17 and they were grounded most of the time. According to HAL employees working on Dhruvs in BBSR airport these are expensive and unreliable so private owners would prefer foreign Helis if Hal made civilian versions.

But engines in dhruv are indo-french

 

[AVAST]

Yes true . First of all am not blaming Dhruv. Second am not comparing it with Apache. U.S operates 5 times more helecopters than us, for them losing 5 Apaches in 5 years may not effect as much as India losing 7 ALH in 6 years as of today.

Numbers don't matter hours do. Pretty sure they get more flight hours

 

[NutCracker]

Yes true . First of all am not blaming Dhruv. Second am not comparing it with Apache. U.S operates 5 times more helecopters than us, for them losing 5 Apaches in 5 years may not effect as much as India losing 7 ALH in 6 years as of today.

US couldn't even build something which can operate in such condition. maybe they never needed, but we would never know their crash rate/

What we could know is how Apaches are crashing at sub 1000m terrains in deserts and plains.

Helis are unreliable by design. It all comes down to engine . Private helis sometimes operate for more than 6-8 hours a day and you don't hear news of them crashing often. western helis are far more reliable than Russian or Indian-made Dhruvs. Pawan hans had Mi 8/17 and they were grounded most of the time. According to HAL employees working on Dhruvs in BBSR airport these are expensive and unreliable so private owners would prefer foreign Helis if Hal made civilian versions.

go check how pawan hans's bell helicopters have been crashing like flies..

 

[AVAST]

US couldn't even build something which can operate in such condition. maybe they never needed, but we would never know their crash rate/

What we could know is how Apaches are crashing at sub 1000m terrains in deserts and plains.



go check how pawan hans's bell helicopters have been crashing like flies..

Well, they are old and they use them like mules like take off after take off. Civilian aircraft maintenance involves lots of jugaad like not replacing packings and not cleaning engines with distilled water because they are expensive but you can't do that in IAF, you can get court marshalled if something happens

 

[STORE]

US couldn't even build something which can operate in such condition. maybe they never needed, but we would never know their crash rate/

What we could know is how Apaches are crashing at sub 1000m terrains in deserts and plains.

In what condition are u talking about? If it's about service ceiling Apaches can operate about 6100m while Dhruv can operate upto 6000m. If it's about terrain Apache do operate in different terrains in different parts of the world, for fuck sake even India operates them in China border. We already know their crash rate, it's available in public domain.

 

[NutCracker]

In what condition are u talking about? If it's about service ceiling Apaches can operate about 6100m while Dhruv can operate upto 6000m. If it's about terrain Apache do operate in different terrains in different parts of the world, even India operates them in China border. We already know their crash rate, it's available in public domain.

service ceiling doesn;t worth much unless payload is also mentioned.

we have 20 something and still one managed to crash land in fields of Punjab. Go check.

Well, they are old and they use them like mules like take off after take off. Civilian aircraft maintenance involves lots of jugaad like not replacing packings and not cleaning engines with distilled water because they are expensive but you can't do that in IAF, you can get court marshalled if something happens

Civilian Heli are supposed to be better maintained because If Civilian helicopter crashes multiple times your aviation service agency will shut down.
Other hand military equipment are made for rugged usage. You wont always find distilled water during wartime.

 

[STORE]

service ceiling doesn;t worth much unless payload is also mentioned.

The let's talk about Chinook then? Chinook has service ceiling of 6100 m and carries much more payload than Dhruv .Dhruv has 6000m ceiling and both r extensively used in the region. So still saying Americans couldn't make anything tht operates in such condition?

we have 20 something and still one managed to crash land in fields of Punjab. Go check.

Crash landing my ass. They made an emergency landing .there was no damage to aircraft or property .no lives where lost and the aircraft flew away from the location after sometime. News channel wanted to make a sensational new about it, thts all.

Civilian Heli are supposed to be better maintained because If Civilian helicopter crashes multiple times your aviation service agency will shut down.
Other hand military equipment are made for rugged usage. You wont always find distilled water during wartime.

Private companies keep the cost down by cutting maintenance unlike military. It's helecopter we r talking about not soldiers ,iam pretty sure military wont run out of distilled water in airforce base during wartime fr helecopters.

 

[NutCracker]

both r extensively used in the region.

I call it bullshit till I see operational hours.
we have only 15+ of those.

Crash landing my ass. They made an emergency landing .there was no damage to aircraft or property .no lives where lost and the aircraft flew away from the location after sometime. News channel wanted to make a sensational new about it, thts all.

use your brain . It survived because it landed in fuckin field of punjab.
You think a chopper flying in Uttarakhand or Arunachal pradesh has that luxury.

 

[STORE]

I call it bullshit till I see operational hours.
we have only 15+ of those.

U can say the same "operational hours" excuse for dhruv as well. Those 15 helecopter carries howitzers and heavy equipment from runway strips to remote locations in Arunachal pradesh.

Ladakh standoff: IAF deploys Chinook heavy-lift choppers near China border

GUWAHATI: The Indian Air Force (IAF) has made its CH-47 Chinook helicopters operational in the strategic Eastern Air Command. The deployment of the high-end hel

www.google.com

"Given the treacherous terrains in the Northeast, particularly the Himalayan state of Arunachal Pradesh, the deployment of the Chinook helicopters is being seen as the capacity build-up and boosting of assets.
One such helicopter had on Thursday dispatched essential commodities in the remote Vijoynagar circle of Changlang district. Bound on three sides by Myanmar, Vijoynagar is one of the remotest parts of India. The 16 villages there have a combined population of around 4,500."

This article is from 2020 when Chinooks were still new, now the operational hours would be increased significantly in the area.

use your brain . It survived because it landed in fuckin field of punjab.
You think a chopper flying in Uttarakhand or Arunachal pradesh has that luxury.

Stop changing ur argument. U said

we have 20 something and still one managed to crash land in fields of Punjab.

And I proved Apache dint crash land. If u r telling it could have crashed Arunachal pradesh under the same situation, its just specualtion then, I still could say Apaches amd chinooks r operational in Himalyas and it has not crashed till now.

 

[mist_consecutive]

 

[mist_consecutive]

Military has lost 50 personnel in air crashes in 5 years | India News - Times of India

India News: NEW DELHI: Military aviation is innately risky with pilots often pushing their fighters, aircraft and helicopters to the limits to practise combat man.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

We really ought to investigate the high crash rates for ALH, this is a mature platform now and home-made, we can easily tweak and correct any issue at war-footing.
Domestic equipment exhibiting such a reputation will hurt us in long run.

 

[thebakofbakchod]

Military has lost 50 personnel in air crashes in 5 years | India News - Times of India

India News: NEW DELHI: Military aviation is innately risky with pilots often pushing their fighters, aircraft and helicopters to the limits to practise combat man.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

We really ought to investigate the high crash rates for ALH, this is a mature platform now and home-made, we can easily tweak and correct any issue at war-footing.
Domestic equipment exhibiting such a reputation will hurt us in long run.

7 crashes in the last 5 years is inexcusable. If they need to ground the whole fleet, so be it. HAL shouldnt get a free pass to build a crash happy machine

 

[mist_consecutive]

7 crashes in the last 5 years is inexcusable. If they need to ground the whole fleet, so be it. HAL shouldnt get a free pass to build a crash happy machine

IAF and IN have already grounded the entire ALH fleet.

 

[Sachinananda]

IAF and IN have already grounded the entire ALH fleet.

Source

 

[mist_consecutive]

Source

Read the article I posted above.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]