A pilot error is no reason for the Dhruv's market to slide down. A man's error cannot be blamed on the machine. Sabotage may be a possible reason but in my opinion, pilot error still can be the same reason considering the fact that during military anniversaries, such accidents do occur worldwide.Probably because of bad maintenance? still a serious blow to marketing dhruv.
HAL Advanced Light Helicopter Dhruv
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ALH Dhruv chopper crashes in Ecuador
Updated : 29 Oct 2009 07:26:59 AM IST
BANGALORE: India’s flagship defence export, the Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) Dhruv suffered a major setback, following the crash of one of the choppers and its subsequent grounding in Ecuador.
The South American country had purchased seven choppers earlier this year during the Aero India 2009 from Bangalore-based Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), the manufacturer of the chopper.
Commenting on what could have led to the crash, HAL spokesperson M Ananthakrishnan said that it is too premature to comment on the incident and that a HAL team which is positioned in Ecuador is currently assisting the investigations at the crash site.
However, Express has learnt that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has despatched another team from India to Ecuador in order to ensure that the ill-fated crash would not hamper the prospects of future exports of the chopper to other countries, especially the South American ones, as a number of them have evinced keen interest in purchasing the chopper.
“The team will assist the ongoing investigations and will help in analysing the contents of the flight data recorder which is expected to play a key role in bringing to light what actually led to the crash,” MoD sources in New Delhi told Express.
MoD sources said that HAL had already started its own investigation as it had completely analysed the video footage of the crash which took place at an Air Force base near Quito in Ecuador.
The export of ALH Dhruv to Ecuador was seen as a major breakthrough for India in the area of defence export as it had clinched $ 51 million deal with Ecuador, after fierce bidding which also involved Israel firm Elbit, EADS’s Eurocopter and Russia’s Kazan.
Though the reason for crash is yet to ascertained, a previous crash incident in which the ALH Dhruv was involved in, had pointed defects in the composite tail-rotor of the 5.5-tonne chopper.
However, Wg Cdr C D Upadhya, former chief test pilot of HAL said that this defect was sorted out and it was unlikely that the Dhruv helicopters handed over to Ecuador would carry these defects.
The Dhruv, apart from being used by the three armed forces and the home ministry, has also been exported to seven countries including Israel.
Updated : 29 Oct 2009 07:26:59 AM IST
BANGALORE: India’s flagship defence export, the Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) Dhruv suffered a major setback, following the crash of one of the choppers and its subsequent grounding in Ecuador.
The South American country had purchased seven choppers earlier this year during the Aero India 2009 from Bangalore-based Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), the manufacturer of the chopper.
Commenting on what could have led to the crash, HAL spokesperson M Ananthakrishnan said that it is too premature to comment on the incident and that a HAL team which is positioned in Ecuador is currently assisting the investigations at the crash site.
However, Express has learnt that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has despatched another team from India to Ecuador in order to ensure that the ill-fated crash would not hamper the prospects of future exports of the chopper to other countries, especially the South American ones, as a number of them have evinced keen interest in purchasing the chopper.
“The team will assist the ongoing investigations and will help in analysing the contents of the flight data recorder which is expected to play a key role in bringing to light what actually led to the crash,” MoD sources in New Delhi told Express.
MoD sources said that HAL had already started its own investigation as it had completely analysed the video footage of the crash which took place at an Air Force base near Quito in Ecuador.
The export of ALH Dhruv to Ecuador was seen as a major breakthrough for India in the area of defence export as it had clinched $ 51 million deal with Ecuador, after fierce bidding which also involved Israel firm Elbit, EADS’s Eurocopter and Russia’s Kazan.
Though the reason for crash is yet to ascertained, a previous crash incident in which the ALH Dhruv was involved in, had pointed defects in the composite tail-rotor of the 5.5-tonne chopper.
However, Wg Cdr C D Upadhya, former chief test pilot of HAL said that this defect was sorted out and it was unlikely that the Dhruv helicopters handed over to Ecuador would carry these defects.
The Dhruv, apart from being used by the three armed forces and the home ministry, has also been exported to seven countries including Israel.
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DHRUV CRASH UPDATE FROM LIVEFIST- FIRE RULED OUT
According to the latest information coming in from my sources in Ecuador, there was absolutely no fire that broke out in the tail of the ALH Dhruv that crashed in the country on Tuesday. A careful study by experts, involving both visual analysis of footage as well as prima facie analysis of the wreckage, has unequivocally ruled out that there was any fire as suggested by certain eye-witness accounts. As a matter of fact, there was no post-crash fire either.
LiveFist has learnt from sources concerned with the investigation that on impact, the Dhruv's engines surged, and hence the visible flame emerging from the exhaust (see the part between the 3rd and 4th second in this video). Soon thereafter, the engines shut down due to fuel starvation. Indeed, according to experts, the fact that there was no fire post-impact once again demonstrates and establishes the crashworthiness of the Dhruv platform, where the fuel tanks have maintained their integrity and the fuel has been shut off automatically.
According to the latest information coming in from my sources in Ecuador, there was absolutely no fire that broke out in the tail of the ALH Dhruv that crashed in the country on Tuesday. A careful study by experts, involving both visual analysis of footage as well as prima facie analysis of the wreckage, has unequivocally ruled out that there was any fire as suggested by certain eye-witness accounts. As a matter of fact, there was no post-crash fire either.
LiveFist has learnt from sources concerned with the investigation that on impact, the Dhruv's engines surged, and hence the visible flame emerging from the exhaust (see the part between the 3rd and 4th second in this video). Soon thereafter, the engines shut down due to fuel starvation. Indeed, according to experts, the fact that there was no fire post-impact once again demonstrates and establishes the crashworthiness of the Dhruv platform, where the fuel tanks have maintained their integrity and the fuel has been shut off automatically.
Vladimir79
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Apparently Ecuador is angry over the fact that the engines and rotors were older than the 2008 package which is a breech of contract.
PHOTO: COURTESY / The Telegraph
The commander of the SAF, Rodrigo Bohorquez, (right) explains the origin of the engines of the helicopters.
After the accident the Dhruv helicopter, registered on Tuesday, authorities in the FAE and observed under contract with the company Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) of India to Ecuador to deliver aircraft with engines that were not model 2008, in his entirety.
Accompanied by Secretary of Air Transport and Airports, Guillermo Bernal, and the director general of Civil Aviation (DAC), Fernando Guerrero, the overall commander of the SAF, Rodrigo Bohorquez, acknowledged that not all engines of the five helicopters are 2008 model but 2005, 2006 and 2007.
He insisted that when the aircraft arrived, they realized the problem and made the call to HAL, which presented a certificate of guarantee of the French company Turbomeca engine manufacturer.
According to the Commander, the French company justified the quality of their engines, indicating that although they are models before 2008, have zero hours, and 15 years of life. But he added that the contract signed with HAL provides that the entire architecture of the spacecraft must be 2008. Therefore, the armed forces to fully claim the fulfillment of the contract. The military authorities said that four engines are 2007, one 2005 and another in 2006.
"I think there is fraud, we expect the engines reach 2008. Where not to send, then the contract will end because the armed forces are not going to accept, "he said.
Bohorquez said that the helicopter engines were damaged in 2008 while the helicopter adapted for the use of the President are 2007.
The commander said the HAL Ecuador gave an Act of Validation of Dhruv, which was accompanied by a certificate issued by the Directorate General of Civil Aeronautics of Chile, which have the same validity as those issued by the U.S. Air Force. With these security certifications are endorsed for operation of aircraft. But the DAC is not responsible for the safety of helicopters, acquired in February.
Bernal, Assistant Secretary of Air Transportation, said he made recommendations to the Presidency of the Republic and the Armed Forces on the type of aircraft required for the transfer of the president. Such suggestions are made based on the stock of existing helicopters in the country as the Super Puma and MI-17, but not on the Dhruv, because in no time the military asked him his opinion and that is not within its competence .
El Telégrafo | FAE halla anomalías en contrato con HAL
FAE is abnormal contract with HAL
PHOTO: COURTESY / The Telegraph
The commander of the SAF, Rodrigo Bohorquez, (right) explains the origin of the engines of the helicopters.
After the accident the Dhruv helicopter, registered on Tuesday, authorities in the FAE and observed under contract with the company Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) of India to Ecuador to deliver aircraft with engines that were not model 2008, in his entirety.
Accompanied by Secretary of Air Transport and Airports, Guillermo Bernal, and the director general of Civil Aviation (DAC), Fernando Guerrero, the overall commander of the SAF, Rodrigo Bohorquez, acknowledged that not all engines of the five helicopters are 2008 model but 2005, 2006 and 2007.
He insisted that when the aircraft arrived, they realized the problem and made the call to HAL, which presented a certificate of guarantee of the French company Turbomeca engine manufacturer.
According to the Commander, the French company justified the quality of their engines, indicating that although they are models before 2008, have zero hours, and 15 years of life. But he added that the contract signed with HAL provides that the entire architecture of the spacecraft must be 2008. Therefore, the armed forces to fully claim the fulfillment of the contract. The military authorities said that four engines are 2007, one 2005 and another in 2006.
"I think there is fraud, we expect the engines reach 2008. Where not to send, then the contract will end because the armed forces are not going to accept, "he said.
Bohorquez said that the helicopter engines were damaged in 2008 while the helicopter adapted for the use of the President are 2007.
The commander said the HAL Ecuador gave an Act of Validation of Dhruv, which was accompanied by a certificate issued by the Directorate General of Civil Aeronautics of Chile, which have the same validity as those issued by the U.S. Air Force. With these security certifications are endorsed for operation of aircraft. But the DAC is not responsible for the safety of helicopters, acquired in February.
Bernal, Assistant Secretary of Air Transportation, said he made recommendations to the Presidency of the Republic and the Armed Forces on the type of aircraft required for the transfer of the president. Such suggestions are made based on the stock of existing helicopters in the country as the Super Puma and MI-17, but not on the Dhruv, because in no time the military asked him his opinion and that is not within its competence .
El Telégrafo | FAE halla anomalías en contrato con HAL
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HAL sends team to Ecuador to assist Dhruv crash probe
fullstory
Bangalore, Oct 30 (PTI) Declining to "speculate" on causes behind the Dhruv helicopter crash in Ecuador two days ago, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited has sent a special team there to probe the incident that prompted the grounding of their six other choppers of the fleet.
"As a matter of principle, we would not like to speculate on the causes of the incident based on media reports," HAL said in a statement here.
The HAL team, which was already in Ecuador providing maintenance support, is assisting the Ecuadorian Air Force in the investigations.
In addition, a three-member team of senior specialists including HAL's Chief Test Pilot has been sent to Ecuador to provide all necessary assistance in the probe.
Ecuadorian pilots, it said, have undergone extensive flying training on Dhruv at HAL's facilities, had expressed happiness with handling qualities and have logged 860 hours
fullstory
Bangalore, Oct 30 (PTI) Declining to "speculate" on causes behind the Dhruv helicopter crash in Ecuador two days ago, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited has sent a special team there to probe the incident that prompted the grounding of their six other choppers of the fleet.
"As a matter of principle, we would not like to speculate on the causes of the incident based on media reports," HAL said in a statement here.
The HAL team, which was already in Ecuador providing maintenance support, is assisting the Ecuadorian Air Force in the investigations.
In addition, a three-member team of senior specialists including HAL's Chief Test Pilot has been sent to Ecuador to provide all necessary assistance in the probe.
Ecuadorian pilots, it said, have undergone extensive flying training on Dhruv at HAL's facilities, had expressed happiness with handling qualities and have logged 860 hours
vladimir,
i can smell of something burning around you as the dhruv is getting matured day by day.
and yes as you wrote earlier in your post that even indian armed forces dont want dhruv - WRONG. they have ordered more.
by the way, this was the 3rd accident of dhruv. 1st was due to pilot error (reason diagnosed already) 2nd was by defect which was resolved very soon after finding defect. the reason behind this 3rd one is still awaiting.
i can smell of something burning around you as the dhruv is getting matured day by day.
and yes as you wrote earlier in your post that even indian armed forces dont want dhruv - WRONG. they have ordered more.
by the way, this was the 3rd accident of dhruv. 1st was due to pilot error (reason diagnosed already) 2nd was by defect which was resolved very soon after finding defect. the reason behind this 3rd one is still awaiting.
venkat
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vladimir,
one MI-17 crashed in kashmir today ! i think the pilot lost his life! what about this. Few days back MI-17 crashed in pakistan two ppl died! Can you explain the reason why they crashed,because all russian helos are so reliable!
one MI-17 crashed in kashmir today ! i think the pilot lost his life! what about this. Few days back MI-17 crashed in pakistan two ppl died! Can you explain the reason why they crashed,because all russian helos are so reliable!
Babudome can be acceptable in India, not in international market. HAL is not well recognized for "Quality Control", they are one of the reason Mig-21 is termed "flying coffin", all because of the 3rd-grade equipment supplied by HAL.
Vladimir79
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Pilot error, they clipped the bridge cables.
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i was tempted to give you a vote of thanks for that !!^^^
The aliens did it.
(btw - great one )
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i think you may have hit onto something there - good thing youre using a pseudonym on this forum ( we all are !)
Vladimir79
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Ecuador has requested the renegotiation of the contract under terms of material breech. Engines are to be replaced and EAF is awaiting India's response. If the accident was found to be caused by mechanical error and it cannot be overcome, they will request full repayment.
epa - european pressphoto agency: Ecuador pide a una empresa india nuevos motores tras el accidente de un helicptero
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epa - european pressphoto agency: Ecuador pide a una empresa india nuevos motores tras el accidente de un helicptero
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venkat
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Amit! you and me were not born when the MIG-21 and its avionics were designed! have you ever seen a mig-21 inside closely? in these days of power pcs, DSP ,FPGAs,VXworks what not ,ppl struggle out there to maintain those old radars made of valves,old navigation equipment, old communication sets and old....... have some respect. i am not saying every thing is fine with HAL...everymonth scores of experienced ppl ,who have maintained these, all these years are retiring from service! but still IAF wants HAL to maintain these equipment, for another xxxx or so. USSR collapsed...but not these vintage items. i am not saying they are bad...they served their time. for example VOR/ILS with a DSP is available indegenously, still airforce ppl want to maintain russian made equipment designed on 1950! i cant go in to specifics....quality improvement ,there is no end to it...
HAL in any way which you can if you can!Vladimir79
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I didn't write it, those were the words of former Ecuador Air Chief. I only posted what he said. I couldn't care less if Dhruv is successful. We have no real light helicopter market. We dominate medium and heavy-lift.
icecoolben
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Hal is planning to venture into the medium lift helicopter category isn't it? Hows that going?
FOR POST #54
dear, it may be reverse.
some may see this as a positive matter. the pilots are saved completely. no fire reported even after impact. the overall structure is intact even after the craft was down on head.
a good and positive side.
dear, it may be reverse.
some may see this as a positive matter. the pilots are saved completely. no fire reported even after impact. the overall structure is intact even after the craft was down on head.
a good and positive side.
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