Gupta-Hunnic Wars

Chimaji Appa

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Absolutely our rich history has been influenced by western ideology thanks to psuedo historians. It is clear from the fact these events are totally ignored in CBSE textbooks so one may never actually learn about these events all in the name of secularism. In Medieval history taught in textbooks one each chapter has been dedicated to Mughal Kings. No mention whatsoever of Pala dynasty of the east or Ahoms who ruled Assam during Mughal rule. What baffles me most is exclusion of perhaps greatest north Indian king since Harsha, the legendary emperor of Karakota dynasty Lalitaditya Muktapida who had his vast empire in Central Asia too according to Kalhana's records. The dude who build famous Martand temple in Kashmir. Chinese Tang dynasty records also mention his name as ally. It is believed he used superior Chinese arms to defeat Arabs though it has been contradicted but still doesn't change the fact he was a great king & too big to be excluded.
As much as I agree with your post, Lalitaditya did not conquer Central Asia, nor even Panjab. The greatest Indian King at that time was Yashovarman of Kannauj. Here is a post regarding this:
 

cereal killer

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Al Junayd did send two forces one to occupy Kangra or Punjab which was defeated by Lalitaditya Muktapida & another one was sent to South en route many clans were decimated until Nagabhatta armies terminated them. However you are right Chalukyans did defeat another campaign by Arabs.

Also, Yashovarman of Kannauj, whom lalitaditya was a vassal/ ally to for quite some time. Also, no clans were decimated, they probably just raided a bunch of civilian strongholds before being destroyed by Nagabhata and his Gurjara army (consisting of all castes), and the other feadutories (like Bappa Rawal) evicted the Arabs out of their newly conquered stronghold. One arguement I hear from Pakistanis is that "WeLl AraBs WERe BusY eLseWheRe", while Muslim accounts clearly show this invasion as a major one. When the Arabs were busy when the attacked the Chalukyas, the Chalukyas under Vikramaditya II were also more focused on the Pallavas, where much more competenet warriors than the Arabs.
Yeah though Lalitadiya did defeat Yashovarman once but they were united this time to face Arabs. Pakis will claim what suits them it's not surprising. Battle of tours (732 AD) did happen during Umayyad caliphate but both are separate events. Europeans celebrate this victory till now where as Indians don't even know about the Battle of Rajasthan.
 

Chimaji Appa

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Yeah though Lalitadiya did defeat Yashovarman once but they were united this time to face Arabs. Pakis will claim what suits them it's not surprising. Battle of tours (732 AD) did happen during Umayyad caliphate but both are separate events. Europeans celebrate this victory till now where as Indians don't even know about the Battle of Rajasthan.
He probably did, but that was a defensive victory and simply just removed Yashovarmans overlordship. One thing western Europeans and Indians have in common is that they never gave up against the Turkic invaders. There were 2 hindu resurgences in the Medieval times, the first one was led by Himalayan kingdoms, Rajpoots, and Vijayanagar, the Bengalis also contributed (Ganesha) while the second was led by Marathas, Sikhs, Rajpoots, and Jaats.
 
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cereal killer

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He probably did, but that was a defensive victory and simply just removed Yashovarmans overlordship. One thing western Europeans and Indians have in common is that they never gave up against the Turkic invaders. There were 2 hindu resurgences in the Medieval times, the first one was led by Himalayan kingdoms, Rajpoots and Vijayanagar, the Bengalis also contributed (Ganesha) while the second was led by Marathas, Sikhs, Rajpoots, and Jaats.
Yes Kalhana may have gone overboard in praising Lalitadiya. Other sources are Chinese ones which are considered to be reliable. It is sad so much of our history may have been lost in the sacking of Nalanda. Yeah Hindus like Europeans never gave up. However Islamic rule establishment was also due to the faults of our Kings after 1000 AD. Most of them kept using outdated tactics whereas Turks through their campaigns in Europe learnt more about modern warfare. Besides they never really united like their predecessors except for one instance during Battle of Bahraich by Ghaznivid empire against King Suhaldeva & Co. The effect of that war was long lasting, next invasion came after 150 years in the form of Ghori.
 

Chimaji Appa

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Yeah though Lalitadiya did defeat Yashovarman once but they were united this time to face Arabs. Pakis will claim what suits them it's not surprising. Battle of tours (732 AD) did happen during Umayyad caliphate but both are separate events. Europeans celebrate this victory till now where as Indians don't even know about the Battle of Rajasthan.
Well the Battle of Bharaich is most probably a myth.BUT There were many Ghaznavid incursions between Mahmud of Ghazni and Ghori, all of which were thrashed by the Gahadavalas and Chahamanas. I have compiled a list of them using sources obviously:

Pre 1192 repelled Turkic Invasions:

Indo Gangetic Plains:
- In the 1040s, a Hindu Coalition begin retaking cities conquered by Mahmoud Ghazni and even besiege a major city, Lahore.
-In the 1090s/Early 1110s, Masud III of Ghazni leads an expedition into India, and captured the Gahadavala king, who is later recovered by a constant war from Govindacandra, who “forces the Hammira to lay aside his emminity”. A treaty was concluded and Govindachandra retakes his kingdom.
-Govindachandra also seems to have repulsed a Ghaznavid invasion as a sovereign, as his courtier states that he killed a Hammira. His wife, Kumaradevi, praises him from “protecting Varanasi against the ‘wicked Tururska’. This is probably a reference to him being vigilant in general against the Turks, who may have fought or the frontier of the kingdom.
-Vijayachandra also seems to have repulsed a Ghaznavid invasion pre- 1164, when Khusrau Malik invaded India with pressure on the western front from the newly formed Ghurids, but was repulsed. Gahdavala records also praise him for this feat.
-Muhammad of Ghor gets lucky in the Battle of Chandarwar, however, an expedition is then launched against Varanasi, which seems to have been repulsed by Harishchandra.

Against the Chahamanas:
-Bahram Shah invades and captures Nagaur, and starts raiding into Chahamana territory, but gets repulsed by Anoraja, as attested by the Prithviraja Vijaya
- Ajayraja fights and routs the Ghaznavids out of Nagaur.
- Prithviraj’s frontier generals repulse several skirmishes of the Ghurids and crush the 1191 invasion.
Solankis:
- Rout the army of Muiz al din/ Muhammad of Ghor near Mt. Abu

Bahram Shah launched multiple “Holy wars” into India (as indicated by 13th century Muslim chronicler Minaj). The first one may have been an attempt at the Indo Gangetic plains, which was repulsed by Govindacandra. The second was probably directed towards the Chahamana kingdom, after achieving some success, they get repulsed completely. Khusrau Malik also attempted another shot at India, but he and his Turkic army were beaten by Vijayachandra.


Post 1192 -Indo-Muslim conflicts:
Guhilots:
-Illtutmish invades Mewar, and inflicts heavy losses on the army of Jaitra Singh. However, the Muslim army retreats upon the Vaghela chief Marching to help him.
- Jaitrasimha may have repulsed another invasion of Illtutmish (most probably his generals) as indicated by the praise upon his and his grandsons inscriptions.
-Sarashima, the grandson of Jaitrasimha, also claims to have “lifted the Gurjara land out of the Turushka sea”

Vaghelas/ Chaulukyas:
- Qutubuddin Aibak invades and sacks the Chaulukya capital, however, through effective techniques, 2 Solanki generals force Qutubuddin out.
-Later, Illtutmish’s generals invade Gujurat, who get help from the Jalore Chahamana Udayasimha, And successfully repulse this invasion.
- In the 1270s-1280s, Vaghela records claim that they defeated the “Turushkas”. This was most probably the forces of Ghiyasuddin Balban led to attempt another conquest of the area.

Chahamana Branches:
-Iltumish successfully captures Ranthambore in 1235, but it is soon reconquered by Vagabhata Chauahan, who evicts the Turk Garrison and repels 2 invasions in 1248 and 1253. (“Bahar Deo” is what he is referred to as in Muslim Chronicles).
-Illtutmish also seems to have conquered Mandore, which was quickly retaken by the Jalore Chahamana Udayasimha, who claims to have “curbed the pride of the Turushkas” , probably later during the reign of Razia Sultana. The fact that Jal-al-uddin Khalji had to reconquer Mandore further verifies this claim.
- Jal-al-uddin conquers Mandore and advances upon Ranthambore, but chickens out due to the amount of Muslim life it will cost.
-Hammirdev Chauhan repulses the first invasion of Ranthambore, but falls in the second.
Now, many of these Turkic armies were probably no more than 5-10,000 in number (as most troops were in the frontiers of the Sultanate) maybe perhaps besides the sieges. Khilji is said to have had a 380,000 strong army of Turks, Afghans, and some local Indians. However, the Rajput powers we are talking about could also field no more than 10-20,000, nevertheless, they still fought.

Sources:
Early Chauhan Dynasties by Dasharatha Sharma
Peter Jackson: The Delhi Sultanate a political and military history
Sailendra Nath Sen: Ancient Indian history and civilization
Mahesh Singh: Bhoja Paramar And his times
R. C. Majumdar: The history and culture of the Indian peoples : The Delhi Sultanates
History of the Gahdavalas by Roma Niyogi and RC Majumdar
Ashok Kumar Majumdar: Chaulukyas of Gujarat
 

cereal killer

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Well the Battle of Bharaich is most probably a myth.BUT There were many Ghaznavid incursions between Mahmud of Ghazni and Ghori, all of which were thrashed by the Gahadavalas and Chahamanas. I have compiled a list of them using sources obviously:

Pre 1192 repelled Turkic Invasions:

Indo Gangetic Plains:
- In the 1040s, a Hindu Coalition begin retaking cities conquered by Mahmoud Ghazni and even besiege a major city, Lahore.
-In the 1090s/Early 1110s, Masud III of Ghazni leads an expedition into India, and captured the Gahadavala king, who is later recovered by a constant war from Govindacandra, who “forces the Hammira to lay aside his emminity”. A treaty was concluded and Govindachandra retakes his kingdom.
-Govindachandra also seems to have repulsed a Ghaznavid invasion as a sovereign, as his courtier states that he killed a Hammira. His wife, Kumaradevi, praises him from “protecting Varanasi against the ‘wicked Tururska’. This is probably a reference to him being vigilant in general against the Turks, who may have fought or the frontier of the kingdom.
-Vijayachandra also seems to have repulsed a Ghaznavid invasion pre- 1164, when Khusrau Malik invaded India with pressure on the western front from the newly formed Ghurids, but was repulsed. Gahdavala records also praise him for this feat.
-Muhammad of Ghor gets lucky in the Battle of Chandarwar, however, an expedition is then launched against Varanasi, which seems to have been repulsed by Harishchandra.

Against the Chahamanas:
-Bahram Shah invades and captures Nagaur, and starts raiding into Chahamana territory, but gets repulsed by Anoraja, as attested by the Prithviraja Vijaya
- Ajayraja fights and routs the Ghaznavids out of Nagaur.
- Prithviraj’s frontier generals repulse several skirmishes of the Ghurids and crush the 1191 invasion.
Solankis:
- Rout the army of Muiz al din/ Muhammad of Ghor near Mt. Abu

Bahram Shah launched multiple “Holy wars” into India (as indicated by 13th century Muslim chronicler Minaj). The first one may have been an attempt at the Indo Gangetic plains, which was repulsed by Govindacandra. The second was probably directed towards the Chahamana kingdom, after achieving some success, they get repulsed completely. Khusrau Malik also attempted another shot at India, but he and his Turkic army were beaten by Vijayachandra.


Post 1192 -Indo-Muslim conflicts:
Guhilots:
-Illtutmish invades Mewar, and inflicts heavy losses on the army of Jaitra Singh. However, the Muslim army retreats upon the Vaghela chief Marching to help him.
- Jaitrasimha may have repulsed another invasion of Illtutmish (most probably his generals) as indicated by the praise upon his and his grandsons inscriptions.
-Sarashima, the grandson of Jaitrasimha, also claims to have “lifted the Gurjara land out of the Turushka sea”

Vaghelas/ Chaulukyas:
- Qutubuddin Aibak invades and sacks the Chaulukya capital, however, through effective techniques, 2 Solanki generals force Qutubuddin out.
-Later, Illtutmish’s generals invade Gujurat, who get help from the Jalore Chahamana Udayasimha, And successfully repulse this invasion.
- In the 1270s-1280s, Vaghela records claim that they defeated the “Turushkas”. This was most probably the forces of Ghiyasuddin Balban led to attempt another conquest of the area.

Chahamana Branches:
-Iltumish successfully captures Ranthambore in 1235, but it is soon reconquered by Vagabhata Chauahan, who evicts the Turk Garrison and repels 2 invasions in 1248 and 1253. (“Bahar Deo” is what he is referred to as in Muslim Chronicles).
-Illtutmish also seems to have conquered Mandore, which was quickly retaken by the Jalore Chahamana Udayasimha, who claims to have “curbed the pride of the Turushkas” , probably later during the reign of Razia Sultana. The fact that Jal-al-uddin Khalji had to reconquer Mandore further verifies this claim.
- Jal-al-uddin conquers Mandore and advances upon Ranthambore, but chickens out due to the amount of Muslim life it will cost.
-Hammirdev Chauhan repulses the first invasion of Ranthambore, but falls in the second.
Now, many of these Turkic armies were probably no more than 5-10,000 in number (as most troops were in the frontiers of the Sultanate) maybe perhaps besides the sieges. Khilji is said to have had a 380,000 strong army of Turks, Afghans, and some local Indians. However, the Rajput powers we are talking about could also field no more than 10-20,000, nevertheless, they still fought.

Sources:
Early Chauhan Dynasties by Dasharatha Sharma
Peter Jackson: The Delhi Sultanate a political and military history
Sailendra Nath Sen: Ancient Indian history and civilization
Mahesh Singh: Bhoja Paramar And his times
R. C. Majumdar: The history and culture of the Indian peoples : The Delhi Sultanates
History of the Gahdavalas by Roma Niyogi and RC Majumdar
Ashok Kumar Majumdar: Chaulukyas of Gujarat
Great reading this however I read somewhere the numbers advantage was not utilized by Indian Kings due to Caste system. Any truth to this?
 

Chimaji Appa

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Great reading this however I read somewhere the numbers advantage was not utilized by Indian Kings due to Caste system. Any truth to this?
Somewhat. Most battles they were outnumbered by the Muslims, however, there are many brahmin commanders and vaishyas who joined the army both pre and post Gupta era. However, it should have been a requirment that all men join the army, despite the caste.
 

cereal killer

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Somewhat. Most battles they were outnumbered by the Muslims, however, there are many brahmin commanders and vaishyas who joined the army both pre and post Gupta era. However, it should have been a requirment that all men join the army, despite the caste.
Yeah what a travesty this is. I always wondered how the hell did Turks managed to defeat us. Btw you mentioned Battle of Bahraich is a mere myth source?
 

Chimaji Appa

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Yeah what a travesty this is. I always wondered how the hell did Turks managed to defeat us. Btw you mentioned Battle of Bahraich is a mere myth source?
There is a) no mention of this battle in any contemporary source B) The Pasi dynasty Suhaldev belonged to has left no evidence of its existence and C) There is no mention of this Ghazi Salar Masud in any contemporary source.
 

Suryavanshi

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@Chimaji Appa is there a evidence indicating the size of Hunnic army that invaded India?
Armies don't leave a mark unless their size is really big.
A good amount of soldiers are probably killed in war and the rest fled and disperse.
 

Chimaji Appa

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@Chimaji Appa is there a evidence indicating the size of Hunnic army that invaded India?
Armies don't leave a mark unless there size is really big.
A good amount of soldiers are probably killed in war and the rest fled and disperse.
Nope. They probably came in no more than 50k. They could break through the frontiers as the frontiers were very weakly guarded. Keep in mind, the first actual pitched battle happened at Eran, when Bhanagupta was vanquished and his army was routed. The remnants of this army probably allied with Parakashadharman, who stopped the Hephtalite expansion. The Guptas also had to gaurd Pataliputra. Narasimha Gupta was able to check Huns in varanasi, so a good majority of Gupta troops would be with him.
 

Suryavanshi

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Nope. They probably came in no more than 50k. They could break through the frontiers as the frontiers were very weakly guarded. Keep in mind, the first actual pitched battle happened at Eran, when Bhanagupta was vanquished and his army was routed. The remnants of this army probably allied with Parakashadharman, who stopped the Hephtalite expansion. The Guptas also had to gaurd Pataliputra. Narasimha Gupta was able to check Huns in varanasi, so a good majority of Gupta troops would be with him.
So a Estimate of 50k to 70k right?
Big in comparison to any single kingdom army present at the time in India.

Also their horse based armies probably helped them to move quickly for a invasion.

Is there any evidence that suggest they sacked and looted cities during invasion?
 

Chimaji Appa

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So a Estimate of 50k to 70k right?
Big in comparison to any single kingdom army present at the time in India.

Also their horse based armies probably helped them to move quickly for a invasion.

Is there any evidence that suggest they sacked and looted cities during invasion?
I'd say about 30,000-50,000, that is how many people invaders normally brought into India.
Some accounts claim that Mihirakula sacked Pataliputra, but there is no evidence and Narashimagupta seems to have checked the Hunas succsesfully.
 

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Not to derail this thread in anyway, But man It feels so good to be back on DFI..This Thread proves it.. thanks @Chimaji Appa for the wonderful read.. it certainly feels like i am going back in time and reliving them..
 

Chimaji Appa

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Not to derail this thread in anyway, But man It feels so good to be back on DFI..This Thread proves it.. thanks @Chimaji Appa for the wonderful read.. it certainly feels like i am going back in time and reliving them..
Thank you. I try my best to upload one of these every week, next will probably be about failed
C1E20FEE-5814-493F-942F-BE4664248E9B.jpeg
Turkic Invasions and the second Hindu coalition which fought a foreign power. To give you a preview:
 

Kumaoni

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Can’t believe it’s been two years since I wrote this form my old account
 

Azaad

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Yeah, asked mods to ban it but seems like they haven’t haha
Very interesting read. You've a good grasp on history & decent writing skills. You ought to create more such content for the edification of the membership here.
 

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