Genocide of Hindus in Pakistan & Bangladesh.

[1.44]

Religion is a personal thing. People might live in hunger than give up their religion. Why should they convert to Islam there? And the "stupid tax" is not imposed by the government to call it a tax. Its extortion.

Also since you mentioned conversion, the Muslims of undivided India, who went to Pakistan were called Mohajirs and disliked. What makes you believe that a Hindu convert will be given his rights?

Any report that the Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan live on Aid of the JuD?

I can only find this:
Jama'at-ud-Da'wah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Are you sure conversion will not allow them to live peacefully?
I heard many stayed there because they were asked to by their Muslim neighbours.

 

[Yusuf]

They are living peacefully under the circumstances. Extortion happens everywhere including India.

 

[1.44]

In any case i say it was a prank call the Pakistani establishment is hopefully much more wary of anything relating to Taliban.Hope proper action is taken by the authorities.

 

[I-G]

In any case i say it was a prank call the Pakistani establishment is hopefully much more wary of anything relating to Taliban.Hope proper action is taken by the authorities.

i even think the same way ..its nothing but propaganda by the current Pakistani establishment against Taliban .

 

[Vladimir79]

Nothing wrong in Taliban's demand. Those Hindus are living in Islamic Republic of Pakistan where majority are muslims. Obviously, they will enforce their will. Those Hindus must dutifully pay off their Jizya.

Really? If Wahhabis went around trying to collect Jizya here they are taken out back and shot.

 

[Antimony]

Really? If Wahhabis went around trying to collect Jizya here they are taken out back and shot.

Jizya can only be imposed in a country following an islamic setup. In return they would be able to practice their religion and not be required to provide military services. A sort of protection money, if you will.

It would also mean that muslims would correspondingly pay another tax called zakat which non-muslims would not be required to pay. Muslims, since they do not pay jizya, may be called in for military duty.

Russia is not a muslim country and any demand for jizya should be dealt in an "appropriate" manner

Even Pakistan, IMO, does not really fall under the definition of a country that can levy jizya, regardless of its nomenclature as an Islamic Republic.

Another point to note is that while Zakat (actually, giving a part of one's income for charity) is prescribed in the Quaran and the Hadith of Al Bukhari, I don't think it is mentioned how exactly Jizya may be collected, though the surah AL-TAWBA (9:29) that jizya must be paid by non-believers to show their subjugation

SOmeone who is more familiar with islamic text may elaborate

 

[Vladimir79]

Jizya can only be imposed in a country following an islamic setup. In return they would be able to practice their religion and not be required to provide military services. A sort of protection money, if you will.

Well that wasn't true of the Ottomans now was it? They not only taxed Jizya but also had dhimi levies so Christians were required for military service and forcefully converted. That system didn't work out to well and so led to the fall of the Empire.

It would also mean that muslims would correspondingly pay another tax called zakat which non-muslims would not be required to pay. Muslims, since they do not pay jizya, may be called in for military duty.

Russia is not a muslim country and any demand for jizya should be dealt in an "appropriate" manner

Which is what they were trying to do in Ichkeria. Wahabis would kidnap locals and say they owe a Jizya tax and if they didn't pay would be killed. The end result, we took them out back and had them shot. They could have had their own country if they didn't cross the border committing Jizya terrorism in Dagestan.

They were trying to make all the Caucuses a Muslim country but the only thing they understand is their death. Pakistan is secular in law the same as we are and to carry out jizya results in the same... death.

Another point to note is that while Zakat (actually, giving a part of one's income for charity) is prescribed in the Quaran and the Hadith of Al Bukhari, I don't think it is mentioned how exactly Jizya may be collected, though the surah AL-TAWBA (9:29) that jizya must be paid by non-believers to show their subjugation

Jizya is outdated medieval thinking that has no place in the modern world.

 

[Antimony]

Well that wasn't true of the Ottomans now was it? They not only taxed Jizya but also had dhimi levies so Christians were required for military service and forcefully converted. That system didn't work out to well and so led to the fall of the Empire.

Which is why its stupid to enfore rules that go against the belief system of a large segment of your population

Which is what they were trying to do in Ichkeria. Wahabis would kidnap locals and say they owe a Jizya tax and if they didn't pay would be killed. The end result, we took them out back and had them shot. They could have had their own country if they didn't cross the border committing Jizya terrorism in Dagestan.

Sounds reasonable, but isn't there a more "lawful" way to deal with such muck?

Jizya is outdated medieval thinking that has no place in the modern world.

I would agree. I support different communities having different personal laws (like inheritance, marriage etc.) but this is taking things a bit too far. Thankfully Pakistan has stayed away from that trap

 

[Vladimir79]

Which is why its stupid to enfore rules that go against the belief system of a large segment of your population

It is stupid to enforce rules that discriminate on race, religion, or colour.

Sounds reasonable, but isn't there a more "lawful" way to deal with such muck?

There is only one way to treat baby raping murderers... it was too good for them.

I would agree. I support different communities having different personal laws (like inheritance, marriage etc.) but this is taking things a bit too far. Thankfully Pakistan has stayed away from that trap

As long as the law is non-discriminatory and does not absolve human rights it is their own business... if it crosses that line it is draconian.

 

[rocky]

Fate of Polish Engineer caputured in Pak

Polish engineer's refusal to convert costs him his life - Feature : Asia World

 

[Fighter]

Man if you begin to generalise the Hindus and Sikhs like that you will become no better than the Pakistanis who claim monopoly over every Muslim living in India.

We dont do that seriously.

 

[Blimp115]

intolerance is bad......

 

[ajtr]

Refugee cramp

SPECIAL REPORT

Fearing persecution, Pakistani Hindus seek shelter in Rajasthan’s border districts. Now, they are going through identity crises

By Ajay Uprety/Jodhpur & Jaisalmer

Women are raped. Men are harassed, beaten up or slain. Children are abducted. It’s the Taliban effect. Persecution of Hindus in Pakistan is on the rise. And the hapless victims have nowhere to go, except to the grand old Mother. Mother India.

Over the last five years, about 5,000 Pakistani Hindus have sought shelter in Rajasthan’s border districts such as Barmer, Jaisalmer, Jodhpur and Ganganagar. And none wants to return home, ever.
Ranaram Bhil is one of them. He left behind his hearth and home in Rahim Yar Khan district near the Indo-Pak border in Sindh province last year, and crossed over to India.

Fanatics had abducted his wife and forcibly converted her to Islam. Local Urdu dailies celebrated it. The next targets would have been Ranaram and his children. “There pressure was unbearable. So I fled Pakistan. I have no idea whether my wife is alive or dead,” he says.
Indraram Meghwal, 55, who migrated to India in 2006, dreads even the memory of life in Pakistan. He still has not got over the horror of watching a pundit, who refused to embrace Islam, being thrown off a roof by a fanatic mob in his hometown, Rahim Yar Khan.

“They looted his house, desecrated the small temple there and killed him and his family. If that could happen to my neighbour, it could have happened to me and my family anytime,” says Indraram.
Influx of Pakistani Hindus was witnessed during the Indo-Pak wars. The Babri Masjid demolition in 1992, too, led to hounding of Hindus and destruction of temples in Pakistan. Now, there is a spurt in religious persecution in Pakistan, as the Taliban influence is steadily increasing.

External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna recently stated in Parliament that the attacks on minorities in Pakistan were “barbaric and heinous”, and they were “deplorable in the strongest possible terms”.
Kishore Kumar, a Hindu legislator in the North-West Frontier Province assembly, too, urged the Pakistan government to deal with the “many problems” minorities were facing. He also noted that “minorities have been hit hard by growing extremism”.

Most of the Hindus who are ‘returning’ to India are have-nots whose forefathers had migrated from Rajasthan’s border districts to Pakistan before Partition, in search of work. But, returning is not a cakewalk, and life on this side of the border is not a bed of roses for these refugees.
“In India, we feel like an illegitimate, orphaned child. While fleeing Pakistan, I thought that I am going back to my home, but all my hopes broke down as the Indian authorities consider us Pakis and loathe us,” says Premchand, 28, who came to India in 2005.

Premchand, along with seven others from Sindh, hoped to enter India through the Wagha border, but the authorities allegedly told them that their visas were fake and asked Rs 5,000 each for clearance. As they did not have that much money, Premchand’s grandfather fell at the officials’ feet. But, he was allegedly kicked and beaten up, leaving him unconscious.

Seeing his condition, the officials took all the money the group had and let them cross the border. The old man paid with his life to enter India—he died on the way.
The refugees seek easy visas and, later, Indian citizenship. But, being Hindus does not offer them any privileges. Also, until 2004, these refugees had to wait for five years to become eligible for citizenship. This period has been increased to seven years. The process fee, too, has been increased from Rs 100 to Rs 2,000 to Rs 3,000 to Rs 30,000.

That India is not a signatory to UN Convention on Refugees (1951) and its 1967 protocol makes matters worse, as there is no clear policy on refugees.
Hundreds of these refugees can be seen residing in Kali Beri and Ramdev Nagar on the outskirts of Jodhpur. Most look like zombies. Their tattered clothes, emotionless faces and vacuous eyes tell their tale.

They live in sandstone huts with thatched roofs. Basic amenities such as electricity, water supply, sanitation and roads are unheard of here. Most of the refugees work in the stone quarries in the area for more than 12 hours, and some have become rickshaw-pullers. Wages are meagre and employment is uncertain. There are cases where more than 10 members of a family survive on Rs 100 a day.
“I was a farmer in Pakistan. Now, I have to slog in a stone quarry. There is no option,” says Mitthu Ram, whose hands are full of blisters, thanks to his job.

Rubbing salt into their wounds, the local police and intelligence officers allegedly hound them often and demand bribes. “If we do not cough up the money, they threaten to jail us,” says Hemant.
Furthermore, the law does not allow refugees to move out of the district limits. “Even if someone is seriously ill we cannot take him to a hospital in the city,” says Nainu Ram.

Travelling back to Pakistan is difficult, too. Ajita Ram, who has been living here for the six years, could not attend his mother’s funeral in Pakistan, as Indian authorities refused him visa him. “Only God knows when I will be able to immerse her ashes. Till then, her soul will not rest in peace,” he says.

The refugees’ grievances find a voice in Hindu Singh Sodha, the founder of Pak Visthapit Sangh, a community-based organisation that fights for refugees’ rights.
Says Sodha, who has been helping refugees for more than a decade: “We need to have a proper mechanism devoid of red tape and corruption to mitigate their woes. Those who do not get citizenship cannot get driving licences, open bank accounts and access development schemes.”

A review committee appointed by the Rajasthan government in 2001 had recommended that district magistrates should be authorised to grant citizenship. But, since 2007, the Centre has assumed this power, thus making the process more cumbersome.
Chief Minister Ashok Gehlot wrote to Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram in April 2009 to look into the matter, but no action has been taken. His predecessor Vasundhara Raje, too, had written to then home minister Shivraj Patil in September 2008.

In March 2009, the state government formed committees under the additional chief secretary, divisional commissioners and district magistrates. But none has been functional so far.
Tormented by fanatics on one side, and legal rigmarole on the other, Nainu Ram asks: “We did not divide the country. Then why are we bearing the brunt?”



God of small people
Hindu Singh Sodha has been fighting for the cause of the refugees in Rajasthan for the last 13 years through his Pak Visthapit Sangh. Sodha’s family had crossed over from Pakistan in 1971, so he knows the pains of a refugee.
With a team of volunteers, Sodha, a law graduate from Jodhpur University, keeps track of refugees, pursues their cases with the local administration and fights for their rights across Jaisalmer, Jodhpur, Barmer and Bikaner districts.
Thanks to his efforts, so far, 13,000 Pakistani refugees have got Indian citizenship. Sodha mobilises refugees and highlights their plight at public meetings. “These people are not vote banks, so nobody cares for them,” he says.
With the meagre income from his agricultural land, Sodha travels across Rajasthan every month to look into the woes of refugees. “He is a crusader and a god to us,” gushes Mitthuram, a refugee.



A rail line, a lifeline
Chants of “Hindustan zindabad, Pakistan zindabad” reverberate across the Jodhpur railway station as the Thar Express leaves for Pakistan at midnight. Relaunched in 2006, the weekly train, which had been suspended since the 1965 Indo-Pak war, links Rajasthan and Karachi. This is the only trans-border train other than the Samjhauta Express.
The Thar Express is a godsend for Hindus who seek to flee Pakistan. In the first year of its operation, it brought 385 Hindus. In 2007, the figure rose to 880. Unconfirmed reports say, more than 2,000 Pakistani Hindus came by the train the last two years, never to return.
Ranaram Bhil, who fled to India by the Thar Express, says, “Had this train not been there, my life would have been hell.”

 

[tarunraju]

This is just extortion under the cover of Jizya. Under Muslim-ruled India Jizya was a much smaller tax, not (relatively) huge sums such as these.

That said, they're not Indians, it's not up to us to do something about them. Besides doesn't GoP's tax at face value amount to extortion? People get very little in return, and their Prime Minister openly makes statements such as "we cannot assure security of our country"

 

[Bhagat Singh]

Why we should not help these hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan? We have duty to tackle injustice and not tolerate this zulam.

Standing upto zulami must not be constrained by boundaries.

 

[tarunraju]

Why we should not help these hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan? We have duty to tackle injustice and not tolerate this zulam.

Standing upto zulami must not be constrained by boundaries.

What is it you want New Delhi to do? Invade Pakistan? Annexe it? Go after those behind this extortion? You kill one there's another to do that job of extortion. The world-order doesn't allow that. It expects you to stick to your boundaries. Pakistan is another country. Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistan are Pakistanis. Let's accept that and move on. India doesn't have the higher moral ground to tell Pakistan how to treat is minorities, Pakistan will just cite India's record (riots), and ask it to lay off.

 

[Rahul Singh]

57 Pakistani Hindus convert to Islam 'under pressure'

57 Pakistani Hindus convert to Islam 'under pressure'

Amir Mir / DNAFriday, May 28, 2010 2:22 IST

ISLAMABAD: Over 50 Pakistani Hindus have converted to Islam in the Sialkot district of Punjab within a week (between May 14 and May 19) under pressure from their Muslim employers in a bid to retain their jobs and survive in the Muslim-dominated society.

As many as 35 Hindus converted to Islam on May 14, another 14 on May 17 and eight on May 19, 2010.

All the 57 Hindus who have converted belong to the Pasroor town of Sialkot.

According to some Pakistani electronic media reports, Mangut Ram, a close relative of some of the new converts, who lives in Sialkot, said that these Hindus had to embrace Islam because they were under pressure from their Muslim employers.

He said four Hindu brothers along with their families lived in the village of Nikki Pindi. Mangut Ram said that Hans Raj, Kans Raj, Meena/Kartar and Sardari Lal along with his nephews and sons worked at an eatery in Karachi.

According to Mangut Ram, his co workers often used to speak against Hindus in Karachi where his family worked. "The owner of the shop where I worked said that after a few months of his employing me the sales dropped drastically because people avoided purchasing and eating edibles prepared by Hindus. Many people opposed the large presence of Hindu employees at his shop and my boss felt pressured to change the situation," he added.

Ram said Sardari Lal and his brother Meena/Kartar had worked at the sweets shops for several years and made a decent living that allowed them to support their families.

He said other Muslims employees of the nearby shops discriminated against them and persecuted them. The shop owner was forced to think about their future at his establishment. "That was when the two brothers and their families decided to embrace Islam in order to keep their jobs and be secure," he added.

Ram confirmed that 13 family members of Sardari Lal, 12 members of Meena/ Kartar, their nephew Kans Raj's son Boota Ram along with three adults and several children of these families embraced Islam on May 14, 2010.

He said that Sardari Lal's older brothers Hans Raj and Kans Raj remained Hindus. Hans Raj too has said that he might consider converting to save his job. He said that life was 'just easier if one was Muslim' and he wouldn't be discriminated against.

Ram said that 14 Hindus of the Tapiala village had embraced Islam on May 17 because they were extremely poor and could not get jobs because no one would employ the large Hindu family.

He said that another relative of his, Parkash, who lived in the village of Seowal, along with his eight family members had embraced Islam in order to save their lands.

"After embracing Islam, Parkash Ram told me that Muslim neighbours had been mistreating him and had forced him to convert," Mangut Ram said.

 

[maomao]

Nothing new coming from islamic republic of pakistan (Failed State, bankrupt both financially and intellectually, beggar, religious bigot etc etc), this is the face of shallow islamic society of pakistan. No doubt world is tightening their immigration policies for pakistanis. "They would not eat at a shop where Hindus prepared sweets" . As usual shameless (actually hated world over) pakistanis will jumb with joy at such achievements (such achievements are greater than any sane achievements for pakistanis).

 

[mehwish92]

this happens all too often in pakistan, yet pakistan loves to give us lectures on how to treat minorities. Funny, because minorities in India are much better off than minorities in Pak.

 

[Tamil_Canuck]

Discrimination at its best, very sad to hear that in the 21st century