General History Thread

Srinivas_K

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Again, you are making generic statements like "Sikhs formed first line of defence" instead of providing proper sources to corroborate the same.

About the "sacrificed his life against conversions in Kashmir", you are talking about Guru Tegh Bahadur? Sorry, but that is another myth.

In case someone might not know, this is a popular story that goes:

In the year 1675, a group of Kashmiri Pandits who had been victims of Islamic tyranny approached Guru Tegh Bahadur and requested him to protect them. On the divine uttering of his 9-year old son, he agreed to help them and said that they must convey to Aurangzeb that if he were to convert Tegh Bahadur to Islam, pandits would follow suit.

This entire conversation comes from a text which primarily focuses on the divinity of the Sikh Gurus that was written almost a century later. However, the historical facts do not corroborate any such happening.

Guru Tegh Bahadur’s arrest was ordered not because he raised the voice of Kashmiri Pandits but because he had gained a lot of followers which even included Muslims. The arrest order was executed when Guru had gone for the Sikh Sangat at Agra which further proves that he was not headed to Delhi to raise the issue of Kashmiri Pandits in the Mughal Court. None of the historians, who support the hypothesis, has produced a single contemporary source that mentions the involvement of Kashmiri Pandits in the whole affair. Hence the story of protecting Kashmiri Pandits is historically inaccurate.
Oh ... Guru TejBahadur story is a myth?

Parallel universe and parallel history of your convenience you are talking about.

Sikhism is an answer from Dharmics against Islamic barbarism. Hindus fully supported Sikhs by giving first born to Sikh gurus and Sikhs in turn established an empire and protected Dharma.
 

Optimistic Nihilist

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Oh ... Guru TejBahadur story is a myth?

Parallel universe and parallel history of your convenience you are talking about.

Sikhism is an answer from Dharmics against Islamic barbarism. Hindus fully supported Sikhs by giving first born to Sikh gurus and Sikhs in turn established an empire and protected Dharma.
Well, I have provided proper sources and references in all the posts I have made in this thread, all you have are romanticized stories and popular myths. You can believe them, doesn't make any of it true.

The Sikh antagonism against Hindus has definitely strengthened after 1947, but the superiority mindset and contempt of idol-worshippers was there from the start. The tenth Guru, Guru Gobind Singh formed alliances with Mughals quite a number of times and used to attack Hindu civilians and kings.
 

Mangal

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Oh ... Guru TejBahadur story is a myth?

Parallel universe and parallel history of your convenience you are talking about.

Sikhism is an answer from Dharmics against Islamic barbarism. Hindus fully supported Sikhs by giving first born to Sikh gurus and Sikhs in turn established an empire and protected Dharma.
Sikhs were glorified to stop Hindus from developing self confidence. In a way showing that Hindus have been dependent on others for their survival.
Sikhs couldn't rule beyond Punjab. How did they save Hindus of UP, Assam, Tamil Nadu?
Leave defeating tell me which battle they fought to save Hindus of these states that I mentioned?
Isn't it a fact that they sided with British during 1857 revolt. They didn't resist Abdali when he came all the way to Panipat. There are accounts of them siding with Mughals.
We owe no one for our existence other than our resilience.
 

Sigmamale101

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Some clarifications on Muinnudin Chisti and claims of him beheading Prithviraj Chauhan and some even claim him taking his daughter some claim some other hindu raja's daughter to take as wife.

Some claims are made by
@BharadwajSpeaks

while some more outlandish by
@GemsOfBollywood

First of all we shall start with contemporary muslim and Hindu historians. All three contemporary muslim political historians Hasan Nizami, Fakhr i Mudabbir or Minhaj ul Siraj do not even mention Muinuddin let alone giving him some claim of any significance.

Neither Ziauddin Barani mentions him
, another a little later historian Isami only mention one thing that Muhammad bin Tughlaq once visited his grave thats all.These are all muslim historians of the time.

If he was living in Ajmer prior to battle of Tarain and was some significant person as claimed by their so called sufi source then even contemporary hindu historian Jayanaka also failed to mention him. So no contemporary historian mention him at all, let alone showing him some significant person. Now come to Sufi sources

Unlike the sufi sources quoted by our friends ie Siyar al Awliya, these are more contemporary works. The contemporary sufi sources Fawaid ul Fuad and Khair ul Majalis also do not mention such a "significant man", even sufi sources. The later work called Siyar al Awliya by Amir
Khurd which our friends are all quoting is only made up of miracles done by their Sufi Saints including Muinuddin Chisti.


Now this work has been said by historians to be based on forgery of malfuzat. The claim in this book that Muinuddin came to Ajmer even when PRC was ruling.






is doubted by many historians and they agree he came to Ajmer long after Second battle of Tarain, although this is doubtful.




Anyway even if we consider this dubious work which is obviously never mentioned by contemporary and is based on forgery, still the Amir Khurd don't mention that Muinuddin took any hindu Raja's daughter as his wife. Yes their own source
do not say this
. More surprise is they even twisted their source, Amir Khurd dont even say that Muinnuddin captured or beheaded PRC. Their so called sufi source only says that when Chisti settled in Ajmer and PRC's agent objected to that Chisti says we have caught PRC and given him to army of Islam, then Ghurid army came toward india and in ensuing battle of Tarain, PRC was captured. This is the miracle Amir Khurd talking about that he made this happen, Amir Khurd doesnt say that PRC was captured by Muinuddin himself or he beheaded him
and of course no daughter of any raja, bs.

This is called twisting of already doubtful source to suit the agenda. Its clear from contemporary works that Chisti was not even worth mentioning by anyone even Sufi contemporary works. The later book which contains the miracles of Sufi saint has a miracle mentioned as Chisti helping ghori by miracle. Such miracles are abundant in such sufi works, how Army of Genghis Khan was defeated by slave general of now dead Ghori by the help of sufi saint Bakhtiyar kaki,
or how Sufi curse brought down mongols on persia.

Now on this basis can we say that Sufi destroyed Persian Khwarezm empire being at the head of Mongol army, lol.
Who manipulate such miracle stories like that.
Now come to their actual source both bharadwaj and bollywood guy are not using Amir Khurd as they claim, or they would have known this. They are actually using Sita Ram Goel's book and Sita ram Goel is using citations from none other than PM Currie's book on Chisti.




Here is what PM Currie say about Chisti taking some daughter of Hindu Raja claim which btw is not in their so called sufi source and is denied as PM currie as later concotion.
Thanks @yashasvipratap for the ss, i couldnt copy his tweet,will link below.


So to sum it up, No contemporary mention of Chisti even by Sufi source, later sufi based on forgeries only mention it as miracle of Chisti and not actual act. The still later tradition which is not based on history say that chisti took some hindu raja's wife, mind you
Even this highly insignificant claim do not mention it as daughter of PRC. Some idiots i believe even made it into Sanyogita, the PRC's wife all by themselves, because history making has become a good business these days.

Thread is in response to some claims made by True Indology & Gems of Bollywood on social media lately. These cuckolds should keep their filthy fantasy to themselves.

Credit : Engineer Who



https://rattibha.com/thread/1460887028908785667?lang=en
 

Sigmamale101

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This guy is a hot shot in current ruling dispensation. But let's separate facts from fiction for this marathi chauvinist.

Credit: OliveGreens09 (PROUD ONIONIST).

Stop parroting Half Truths ! This is whataboutery. Sayaji Rao Gaikwad bowed as much as others. What does he even mean by refusing to bow properly in first place :lol:


Does he know Gaikwad later apologize to Emperor & Queen telling that he was nervous.

Real DEFIANCE was personified by #Hindua_Suraj, Maharana of Mewar who refused to attend the function not some empty gesture. No mention of him for some reason :)

The Man & his seat which remained vacant at Delhi Durbar when Hindua Suraj refused to attend as it was demeaning and humiliating.

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King George V tried hard to convince him to come telling him that he will sit alongside King & queen & not with other Rajas & nawabs, Nizam etc. yet he refused to attend.

Maharana Fateh Singh Mewar was a true nationalist. Only one who didn’t go to Delhi to bow to Gora Badshah !

Rest all from Nizam to Kashmir, Jaipur, Jodhpur, Patiala, Gaikwad, Scindia, Holkar… everyone bowed doubled over at public reception. It’s the Indian Hall of Shame !

FGa4ao1VgAQszp7.jpeg


When British asked for assistance in the Great War, he refused point blank, “when there’s a fight in India, Europeans don’t come here to die…” At end of War, he was given highest decoration of GCIE which he refused to wear, “…it looks better on a horse than a King”. :lol:

FGa4bLqVkAMG5-y.jpeg


Another interesting aside, when asked why was he given GCIE for nothing, Hindua Suraj with his inherent arrogance replied, “because I rendered British the highest service, while Brits were fighting in Europe I didn’t take Delhi. Isn’t that Big Enough service ?” ! Sigma male movement right there :lol:
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Sigmamale101

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fun facts about last descendents of Mughal emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar.

Out of Zafar's twenty-two sons, only two escaped out of Delhi alive. One died as a beggar soon in Tonk. The other managed to escape to Udaipur in the guise of a faqir.


There he met an eunuch from Delhi, who appealed to the Maharana of Mewar to let the faqir stay so he could pray for the Maharana's life and wealth. The Maharana agreed. And thus Mirza Qwaish or Mian Sahib as he was known thereafter lived for next 32 years—on the salary of ₹2/day.

The descendant of Akbar died praying for life and prosperity of his master — the descendant of Pratāp How the fck is this even real.

FBKA6LqVcAEw27X.jpeg


Credit: 👇

 

Sigmamale101

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Ahilyabai Holkar has been in news lately due to kashi vishwanath temple , Narendra Mudi ji to mentioning her & some fictional serial based on fantasy, myth etc has made her a dindu devi shakti lately. No mention of Rajput chiefs like Chandradeva , Maharaja Man singh, Bir Singh Deo Bundela & others regarding the temple...chalo koi na :)

some things about the dindu devi shakti though :)

credit: Engineer Who


Ahilyabai Holkar, the regent of the Holkar Kingdom, when found out that Mahadji Sindhia took a lion's share of Mewar's territory on the pretext of helping mewar, she wrote a threatening letter to Maharana of Mewar. She asked the Maharana to give her parity with Sindhia and provide her with the territory of Nimbahera(near Chittor). Mewar was going through a turmoil and marathas were known to fish into troubled waters of Mewar and Ahilyabai didn't want to waste this opportunity and despite Maharana's protest that she had no right to the claim, she didn't back down. Maharana of Mewar was only of 12 years of age and hence it was an opportune moment for Ahilyabai, despite their reluctance Ahilyabai snatched the territory of Nimbahera from Mewar without any ground.

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Mewar knew the regular raids of Marathas and they knew the result of saying no to Ahilybai meant plunder of mewar territory by marathas. The condition of Mewar of that time was aptly put by an eyewitness, Col Tod in his words as shown in attached pic. Basically he meant.

E0RjDXCVcAIfMWE.jpeg


that even mughal rule was far better than these rapacious "vampire" maratha raids to the kingdom of mewar, these are his own words. On top of that, the territory of Nimbahera which was annexed by Ahilyabai was never returned to mewar despite Maharana pressuring for it even years after.

But later the same territory of Nimbahera was given by Jaswantrao Holkar to his comrade, the dreaded Pindari chief Amir Khan, a pathan from Afghanistan. He was the right hand of Holkar and they both shared the loots and plunders of their victims.

Holkar gave Amir Khan. territory of Tonk and included in that territory of Nimbahera
. Amir Khan, the rapacious pindari chief who even threatened to demolish revered temple of Eklingji, with the help of Holkar's army was made owner of a territory only 15 kms from Chittorgarh in the pious land of mewar.

This portion of mewar was ruled for 150 years by scion of Amir Khan until the independence of India. Never in the history of Mewar, the proud land of mewar was so humiliated even by forces of Khilji, Akbar or Aurangzeb. Maratha penetration in Mewar was the worst period of Mewar history, whether it was Holkar, Sindhia, pindaris or peshwa everyone tried to take away as much as they can, by loot or otherwise. Mewar was forced to look for peace and stability which was provided after the treaty with British. British ensured that no such
E0RjFiFVIAI5uj7.jpeg


freebooters/raiders harassed common populace of mewar. And, Nimbahera the place named after a Parmar rajput was coveted by Maharana till the 1857 revolt, in which army of Mewar occupied Nimbahera, but sadly British later returned it to Nawab of Tonk.




Dindu struggle through deccani revisionist lens :lol:

FF_bfC9VUAMmoxG (1).jpeg


 

Sigmamale101

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Prithviraj Chauhan – Debunking historical myths around the King (Part 1)

The memory of Prithviraj Chauhan has for long been a victim of especially vicious attempts, because of its resilience and motivation factor.




History is a favourite target of social engineering propaganda. For any new poison to be introduced in the popular psyche and for any alteration in mass memory. It needs a vacuum, one that arrives with the destruction of or distortion in the existing memories.

The memory of Prithviraj Chauhan has for long been a victim of especially vicious attempts, because of his resilience and motivation. Today we try to dispel some of these falsehoods.

Magnanimous (silly?) Prithviraj caught and pardoned Ghori multiple times

This myth has excessive percolation in the mainstream
. As if neither Prithviraj nor his ministers & advisors had any political acumen. Moreover, it also insults the intelligence of the wily Shahabuddin Ghori that he kept on coming and getting defeated like a thick-head. Facts of history are alien to these insinuations.

Different sources give different numbers for these so-called ‘victory & pardon’ engagements, going as high as 23.

The first recorded battle where young Prithviraj Chauhan participated, involved cutting the heads of enemy soldiers and decorating the torana (upper deck of an entrance) of Ajmer fort with a garland of those heads.



It also involved the arrest of the royal ladies of the enemy camp to prevent further rebellion.



A few years later, we see Prithviraj conducting a night raid on the Kingdom of Abu/Chandravati.



All these actions expose the baseless stereotypes we’ve allowed to mushroom around the historical Prithviraj Chauhan.
The man was plenty aggressive in setting examples and was fluid in strategy against enemies when the situation demanded it.

After this, it is hard to imagine that Prithviraj was naïve and so left Ghori alive. But we must remember that all Indian sources concur on Prithviraj releasing a captive Ghori.

It has happened only once and our extolling poets have raised the numbers per their liking. Before we go aha! and resume criticizing, observe that the same sources tell us that this pardon was for Ghori at the cost of war indemnities and a promise of paying regular tribute in future, for which an officer used to visit Ghazni (Sur Singh Paramara of Dahala, followed by Pratap Singh).



This finds further corroboration. Colophon of the Kalpasutra, as well as the Phalodī Mata temple renovation’s inscription states that:

Dahala (Dahalamandala near Jabalpur, MP) country’s King was a Madhudeva Paramāra. On the command of Prithviraj Chauhan, Madhudeva’s valorous son Sūr Singh went to Ghazni for tax collection. In a dispute with them, he single-handedly killed 74 well trained Ghazni warriors before falling a hero”.



The description in Hammir Mahakavya chapter 3 also takes us to a similar conclusion as Ghori was tied and had to literally ‘bend his knee’ to save his life.

It wasn’t some out of place magnanimity by which Prithviraj “forgave” Ghori. Medieval norms show ample examples that when one King defeats another, mostly a random combination of the following takes place:

1) War indemnities exacted from defeated King.

2) Some degree of vassalage thrust upon defeated King where regular tribute is promised

3) Part of the defeated King’s territory is snatched away.

What Prithviraj did was perfectly in line with the norms of his age. He turned Ghori into a tax-paying vassal.

There are indications of him doing similarly in the south-east with Paramardin Chandela of Jejakabhukti (annexing part of Jejakabhukti up to Dasharna river).

The fault lies, however, in not understanding thoroughly how the Islamic doctrine was operating and why a radically different treatment was required for mlecchas. Which by the way is a wider issue plaguing the entire society and institutional base of that era, not just Prithviraj.

But let’s arm-twist this false-fed narrative further. When did this single release of Ghori happen? Was it in the first battle of Tarain?

It wasn’t because
:

1) Ghori was badly injured but saved in that battle.

2) When Ghori intruded into Prithviraj’s territory the first outpost he captured was the fort of Sarhind. Immediately after winning Tarain-I, Prithviraj’s forces surrounded the garrison that Ghori had left in Sarhind fort. It took at least 8 months before that garrison surrendered the fort. If Prithviraj had caught Ghori in Tarain-I, on-demand from Prithviraj the captive Shahabuddin would have promptly ordered his garrison for an immediate surrender of Sarhind fort. But we know that is not the case.

This pardon happened in the third battle between Prithviraj and Ghori when Prithviraj was barely 19-20 years old. It took place before both the Tarain battles, in 1182-83 CE around the riverbed of Sutlej, between Multan and Bikampur

It fits to now draw a better informed persona of Prithviraj Chauhan.

Prithviraj and nationalism

1) When in 1178 CE the rapacious hordes of Ghori had ravaged all from Bikampur to Nadol. Prithviraj had strongly rebuffed the Ghurid proposal to ally with them for this campaign. The Chauhan scion reiterated his ancestral vow to exterminate mlecchas. Though his kingdom wasn’t the prime target; though the Ghurid destruction took place in places that were under the vassalage of his enemy Chaulukyas/Solankis. Yet when Nadol fell, a furious Prithviraj stood up for battle. How and why the teenaged King was overruled is a separate matter.

2) In 1182-83 CE when other Hindu Kingdoms outside his reign were trampled under Ghori’s torturous feet. Prithviraj sped out of his Kingdom in full force to charge on Ghurids and capture Ghori.

Clearly, Prithviraj’s thoughts and actions weren’t reserved just for his own Kingdom.

Prithviraj and Raja-dharma

As a captive of Ghurids, Prithviraj underwent both torture and attractive offers to ‘bend his knee’. He could’ve easily accepted the vassalage of Ghori and retained his life as well as Kingdom. But would he still be able to save his people, dharma and culture? As a King, his conclusion was a resounding, No! His refusals eventually led to his death, but Prithviraj didn’t fail the test of Kshatra-dharma.

Prithviraj and awareness of Neeti


1) Politics teaches us to not concede defeat till the last moment. Sources on both sides corroborate that even in Ghurid captivity, Prithviraj kept making attempts to ‘turn the table’ on Ghori.

2) It is often said that Prithviraj lacked farsightedness and broader geopolitical awareness, especially about the mleccha threat. But when Ghori captured Lahore in 1186 CE completing his Punjab conquest. We see an immediate churn in the politics of Prithviraj.

  1. a) He repaired the relations with Tomaras of Delhi that had gone sour since the death of Vigraharaj Chauhan (who married in Tomaras via princess Desaladevi). Later we see Tomaras fighting beside Chauhans shoulder to shoulder in both the battles of Tarain. .
  2. b) With the Chalukyas/Solankis, Prithviraj ceased the sporadic sparring of the past few years and despite having an upper hand on them, he concluded a peace treaty. Thus obtaining crucial peace on the southern front.
All this for what? Obviously, Prithviraj had sensed a much bigger issue on the horizon. He was proven right even before Tarain if we look at the number of Ghurid raids and govardhan inscriptions from the late 1180s.

An immobile fatso?

Was Prithviraj “apparently an immobile fatso”, as suggested by some self-styled wisdom prophet
. Let’s queue all descriptions that offer insight into the physical vigour of the famous Chauhan King.

Following is a summary of Prithviraj’s appearance and daily routine as gleaned from the contemporary text PrithvirajVijaya:

He was trained in various sciences and arts like medicine, military, mīmāsā, dharma, pourāṇika itihāsa, gaṇita, saṅgīta, and chitra-kalā. Our champion would attend physical exercises daily and frequently go on horse riding, and hunting, etc. His voice was thick, serious and his hair was curly. He had large eyes, a broad chest, and was ajānubāhu, i.e. long arms reaching up to knees. Hence, fittingly (arm-span being a factor in archery) many sources record that his skill in archery was unparalleled among other royals of north India at the time. He was proficient in controlling elephants as well. The young King’s gait was slow, with a subtle sway.”
People with pathological hatred want us to believe that the man who attended daily exercises, went for hunting on horse back and controlled elephants with ease was “apparently an immobile fatso”.

The author of PrithvirajVijaya also conveys that (supposedly immobile fatso) Prithviraj’s youth was so affluent that married women and unmarried princesses were falling for him alike.



Another instance is, as we’ve already covered, where Prithviraj conducted a surprise night attack on the Abu/Chandravati Kingdom obviously on horses for want of speed. Is that a feasible proposition for an “immobile fatso”?

Similarly for those who prefer believing the near-contemporary Muslim sources like Abdul Malik Isami’s Futuh-us-Salatin, Hasan Nizami’s Taj-ul-Masir, etc. They mention Prithviraj switching from elephant to horse during battle. Can an “immobile fatso” perform that?

Article by virendra Rathore busting some myth about Prithviraj Chauhan.

https://pragyata.com/prithviraj-chauhan-debunking-historical-myths-around-the-king-part-1/

@hit&run @Maharaj skandgupta @FalconSlayers @Haldilal @Bhumihar @Chimaji Appa & others.
 

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