Future of India's heavy airlift: IAF mulling modernization of IL-76 & future replacement

[Angel of War]

We should have bought more C-17 from USA. Currently the IAF has only 11 C-17s in it's inventory. At the time of purchase, C-17 Globemaster's Production line was already nearing its end. IAF's acquisition was a last moment one and it was the last customer of C-17. It was a missed opportunity.

i hope they can buy second hand globemasters from US

 

[Super Flanker]

Recently India signed contract to tankers with IAI of Israel to supply unknown number of refulers based on B 767

India should have opted for A 330 refuelers

might order Chinese Y 20U to refuel fleet of mirages JF 17 and J 10

Correction. Your JF-17 cannot do refueling Mid-air (IFR) AFAIK only your Mirages and J-10 can conduct Mid-air refueling with those Il-78MPs you have in your inventory.

i hope they can buy second hand globemasters from US

The US Airforce has 222 C-17 Globemasters in it's inventory. So I don't think so that it will be a problem in acquiring a couple of those through 2nd hand purchase as long as US agrees with it.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

i hope they can buy second hand globemasters from US

Doubt they'll sell any. Since the C17 production ended and they don't have another equivalent aircraft in production. We might get the chance to buy some off the Brits since they are planning to retire their C17s early in favor of A400. What we really need is our very own heavy lift program.

 

[Super Flanker]

Doubt they'll sell any. Since the C17 production ended and they don't have another equivalent aircraft in production. We might get the chance to buy some off the Brits since they are planning to retire their C17s early in favor of A400. What we really need is our very own heavy lift program.

Do we have any such program ongoing currently with an aim to develop an Indigenous Heavy lift Transport Aircraft?

I only recall of a program which was a JV between India and Russia with the aim of Co-development and Co-production of a MTA (Multirole Transport Aircraft). But HAL backed out of the program to concerned reasons.

https://hal-india.co.in/Product_Details.aspx?Mkey=54&lKey=&CKey=68

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Do we have any such program ongoing currently with an aim to develop an Indigenous Heavy lift Transport Aircraft?

I only recall of a program which was a JV between India and Russia with the aim of Co-development and Co-production of a MTA (Multirole Transport Aircraft). But HAL backed out of the program to concerned reasons.

https://hal-india.co.in/Product_Details.aspx?Mkey=54&lKey=&CKey=68

Nothing new after the MTA project went into limbo. Looks like we're happy enough with C-130 for now. A400M was offered but we haven't shown much interest yet. Current focus is on the medium lift C-295 fleet.

 

[johnj]

We should have bought more C-17 from USA. Currently the IAF has only 11 C-17s in it's inventory. At the time of purchase, C-17 Globemaster's Production line was already nearing its end. IAF's acquisition was a last moment one and it was the last customer of C-17. It was a missed opportunity.

No, GoI ordered C -17 during its production is fully active, also Boeing having 6 additional jets, but GoI failed to action on time due to snail phase decision making.

 

[johnj]

Do we have any such program ongoing currently with an aim to develop an Indigenous Heavy lift Transport Aircraft?

I only recall of a program which was a JV between India and Russia with the aim of Co-development and Co-production of a MTA (Multirole Transport Aircraft). But HAL backed out of the program to concerned reasons.

https://hal-india.co.in/Product_Details.aspx?Mkey=54&lKey=&CKey=68

20T cargo carry MTA not compare 70T cargo carrying c17, il76a similar to c17.
y20, c17, il76a comes in same category.

 

[Super Flanker]

20T cargo carry MTA not compare 70T cargo carrying c17, il76a similar to c17.
y20, c17, il76a comes in same category.

Nothing new after the MTA project went into limbo. Looks like we're happy enough with C-130 for now. A400M was offered but we haven't shown much interest yet. Current focus is on the medium lift C-295 fleet.

I hope that TATA churns out an Indigenous Transport Aircraft which in category of C-17/IL-76/78/A-400 with the experience gained in TOT and licence Manufacturing of C-295 medium lift platform. Provided that this is possible.

No, GoI ordered C -17 during its production is fully active, also Boeing having 6 additional jets, but GoI failed to action on time due to snail phase decision making.

Our decision making has always been slow. That is one of the negative factors effecting the Modernisation of our armed forces.

 

[johnj]

Nothing new after the MTA project went into limbo. Looks like we're happy enough with C-130 for now. A400M was offered but we haven't shown much interest yet. Current focus is on the medium lift C-295 fleet.

c- 295, 10T cargo, similar to c 27 and c130 & mta 20T, c2 30T, a400m 40T, but c17 70T similar to y20 & il76a/90. GoI started MTA becz IAF wanted 60 plus c130, and its too expensive, now no more c130 and no mta for iaf, c 295 comes under lite cat.

 

[johnj]

I hope that TATA churns out an Indigenous Transport Aircraft which in category of C-17/IL-76/78/A-400 with the experience gained in TOT and licence Manufacturing of C-295 medium lift platform. Provided that this is possible.

c17/il76 can carry a mbt[unloaded] and a 400 can't, difference is huge, iaf still operates il76 and mi 26. Yes, it is possible, in future, but still not enough numbers.

 

[johnj]

i hope they can buy second hand globemasters from US

I don't think so, until new c5 replacement arrive.

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

il-76, C-17, C-5, AN-124 Ruslan and Y-20 carries nearly 70 to 90 tonnes. So we should automatically eliminate other planes like C-2, C-130, A-400M etc.

So what are the options currently we have.

1. Il-76 - (Il-76MD-90A). This is the latest variant from our Russian folks. Currently in production and line will run upto 2028 based on RuAF orders. Purchasing this have some advantage like easy training, MRO facilities are already established. Only downside will be spares availability and also reduced reliability compared to its American counterpart.

2. C-17 Globemaster III - Becomes the workhorse of IAF in the last decade. Unfortunately the production has been ended. Only way to acquire is to buying it from RAF or get some lease from USAF.

3. C-5 Galaxy - Not in production and never exported.

4. AN-124 Ruslan - Another heavy lifter from Antonov. But current state of Antonov is unknown and it takes billions to restart the facility and starts production of this Cold war veteran. Also An-124 production ended in 2004.

5. Y-20 - Comrade Xi will not sell this to enemy nation. So out of bound.

This decade is more oriented towards the launch of Saras -MK1,Saras-MK2, RTA and C-295 in this cargo and passenger aircrafts. Maybe NAL can start study about Strategic Airlifters and from 2030 we will start some activity.

The practical solution is to buy Il-76 modernized or buy 2nd hand C-17 from RAF and USAF.

 

[johnj]

il-76, C-17, C-5, AN-124 Ruslan and Y-20 carries nearly 70 to 90 tonnes. So we should automatically eliminate other planes like C-2, C-130, A-400M etc.

So what are the options currently we have.

1. Il-76 - (Il-76MD-90A). This is the latest variant from our Russian folks. Currently in production and line will run upto 2028 based on RuAF orders. Purchasing this have some advantage like easy training, MRO facilities are already established. Only downside will be spares availability and also reduced reliability compared to its American counterpart.

2. The practical solution is to buy Il-76 modernized or buy 2nd hand C-17 from RAF and USAF.

This decade is more oriented towards the launch of Saras -MK1,Saras-MK2, RTA and C-295 in this cargo and passenger aircrafts. Maybe NAL can start study about Strategic Airlifters and from 2030 we will start some activity.

C 5 can carry 120 tonnes plus, almost double cargo carry capability compared to c 17.
IAF need to upgrade current il 76 and il 78, buying Il-76MD-90A is good and upgrading current ones to new level, with tot for spare and tech support for design of next gen and engine.

 

[Super Flanker]

C 5 can carry 120 tonnes plus, almost double cargo carry capability compared to c 17.
IAF need to upgrade current il 76 and il 78, buying Il-76MD-90A is good and upgrading current ones to new level, with tot for spare and tech support for design of next gen and engine.

C-5 is not an Ideal option because it is a very large Aircraft as compared to other transport planes like C-17 and C-130 currently used by India and AFAIK I don't think so that all airports have the infrastructure to facilitate the operation of such an aircraft.

 

[Super falcon]

Correction. Your JF-17 cannot do refueling Mid-air (IFR) AFAIK only your Mirages and J-10 can conduct Mid-air refueling with those Il-78MPs you have in your inventory.

The US Airforce has 222 C-17 Globemasters in it's inventory. So I don't think so that it will be a problem in acquiring a couple of those through 2nd hand purchase as long as US agrees with it.

Sir Thunder block three has ability to do air refueling

 

[Super Flanker]

Sir Thunder block three has ability to do air refueling

View attachment 154138

This whole matter of whether JF-17 (Including Block 3 variant) has IFR Capability or not has been discussed in the JF-17 thread so please Kindly refer to that for more information.

 

[Super falcon]

India now moving to west no Mi 17 no upgrades for Su 30 and AK gun procurement also been put on hold shows USA pressure is working on India I don't know how western tanker refuel Russian su 30 which is Iaf fleet backbone

 

[Blademaster]

India now moving to west no Mi 17 no upgrades for Su 30 and AK gun procurement also been put on hold shows USA pressure is working on India I don't know how western tanker refuel Russian su 30 which is Iaf fleet backbone

No. Just no.

IAF is going for indigenous upgrade of the Su-30 MKIs and setting up their own spare supply chain. IAF is going for more HAL helicopters. It is all part of the Atmanibhar Bharat initiative. We are not buying more western weapons. We are trying to get less and more of our homegrown weapons and platforms.

 

[Angel of War]

India now moving to west no Mi 17 no upgrades for Su 30 and AK gun procurement also been put on hold shows USA pressure is working on India I don't know how western tanker refuel Russian su 30 which is Iaf fleet backbone

Half knowledge is dangerous

 

[Super Flanker]

India now moving to west no Mi 17 no upgrades for Su 30 and AK gun procurement also been put on hold shows USA pressure is working on India I don't know how western tanker refuel Russian su 30 which is Iaf fleet backbone

Who told you that there are no Upgrades for SU-30 MKI? For your information, Super Sukhoi will happen with Indigenous Upgrade. Please watch these videos by Alpha Defence :-


We are not a country which will be come under the pressure of international entities like USA. Keep that in mind, we will take whatever decision we want for our national interests, whether it makes US happy or not, it doesn't matter to us.

I don't know how western tanker refuel Russian su 30 which is Iaf fleet backbone

Well it is not impossible for a western origin tanker to Conduct mid-air refueling of a SU-30 MKI. Please watch this video. It's video of a French KC-135 mid air refueling a SU-30 MKI.


KC-135 is American origin tanker ,so it is a western origin tanker.