Frontier Infrastructure: Loopholes, Scenarios, etc., and Solutions

arnabmit

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Terrain would be a huge challenge, extremely expensive, but not impossible. Also, AFAIK, Narrow & Meter gauge is only good for troop movement, not arty or armor.

Follow the red line below...

Exclusive AP Railways


Based on current Railways


My Point was inter-connectivity within the state..



tawang to Tezpur ( Narrow-Meter gauge )
tawang to Bomdila ( Narrow-Meter gauge )
tawang to seppa ( Narrow-Meter gauge )

And so on connecting every major city within the state, This will boost tourism and will boost urbanization and so does good for Military, Good for Locals, Over flat terrain this is not needed but over mountain areas this enhance connectivity..
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Meter guage can carry arty such as 105mm IFG and loge-tic vehicles and Armored cars such as BRDM2 / MPV / Rakshak, but Narrow gauge can only transport infantry Light AD such as 23mm twin AAA and may be Jeep size vehicles..

Though still ability to shift entire units in one go within hours is a battle wining factor ..

Meter Gauge..



This will be also huge boom for state economy besides military applications..

Also, AFAIK, Narrow & Meter gauge is only good for troop movement, not arty or armor.
 

arnabmit

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Another Trans Pir Panjal road/tunnel route (suggestion)

  • Easy access to border areas like Chumur & Demchok from Manali
  • Connectivity between Lahaul-Sipti and Southern Ladakh
Yellow Line = New road construction needed
Red Line = 4Km tunnel
Orange Line = 2Km tunnel to make KunzumLa pass an all weather road

 
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Kunal Biswas

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Its related to Infrastructure building, Never underestimate small things which make big difference..

=====================================>>>>



Terex Skid Steer Loader HEMAN 175 is uniquely versatile compact construction equipment and the only one to be "Made in India". It boats of an impressive range of profit earning tools as attachments, which deliver outstanding performance is a wide range of applications. Compact, with superb maneuverability offered by its unique Gear Train type 4-Wheel Transmission, HEMAN 175 offers excellent operator comfort and safety too in all kinds of working conditions. Used by Indian Army, This little Mech can be dropped in dozens in an C-130 / IL-76 and even MI-17, Can make a rough Runway with in a week or a site for a base camp..

 
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pmaitra

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PLA dont want to fight either, if they do then we will too whether were prepared or not. And given the area where the fight will happen the defensive side will have the environmental advantage.
We have an advantage in the Ladakh region, and I could explain to you why, but I think we should discuss that here: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ucture-loopholes-scenarios-etc-solutions.html
@The Messiah, and of course, everyone else; please read the link below to understand how difficult it would be for the PLA to attack India in the Western Sector. The skirmish on that sector caused 140 Indians to die, and on the other side, at least 1000 PLA troops had died, with very little to gain.

One should go to this link and read the complete account in BR.
 
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pmaitra

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I would request members to read this article carefully (and some of you might already have) and do a critical evaluation of the article. Just to remind you, I am seeking insight into things one should not do, and not a shower of praises. :) Please help me out.

Thank you in advance.


Especially @Ray Sir, @W.G.Ewald, @Kunal Biswas, @Bhadra, @Decklander, et al..
 
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Ray

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Bewoor was my senior in NDA. He is from RIMC. His father was the Chief of the Army Staff.

Th article is very incisive and honest.

Air ops in he Mountains, High Altitude and in Valleys are a different kettle of fish than over plains.

The rarefied atmosphere affects ballistics and hence weapon release heights and so on.

Valley flying is most difficult owing to turbulence.

Notwithstanding what the IAF may put out of the successes in Op Safed Sagar, the reality is quite different.

Even today we are still in the process of understanding air ops in high altitude mountains, and the effort is much less than what is desired!

One would understand the issue of high Altitude and mountain flying problems by the very fact that on Mar 25, 2002, a veteran like Western Air Commander Air Marshal Vinod Bhatia responsible for Indian air force out there made a cardinal error and crossed the LC and flew into Pakistani air space for over 11 minutes.before realising what was up!
 

Decklander

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Bewoor was my senior in NDA. He is from RIMC. His father was the Chief of the Army Staff.

Th article is very incisive and honest.

Air ops in he Mountains, High Altitude and in Valleys are a different kettle of fish than over plains.

The rarefied atmosphere affects ballistics and hence weapon release heights and so on.

Valley flying is most difficult owing to turbulence.

Notwithstanding what the IAF may put out of the successes in Op Safed Sagar, the reality is quite different.

Even today we are still in the process of understanding air ops in high altitude mountains, and the effort is much less than what is desired!

One would understand the issue of high Altitude and mountain flying problems by the very fact that on Mar 25, 2002, a veteran like Western Air Commander Air Marshal Vinod Bhatia responsible for Indian air force out there made a cardinal error and crossed the LC and flew into Pakistani air space for over 11 minutes.before realising what was up!
Air Marshal KG Bewoor was my CO in 20th sqn IAF and he taught me the real tricks of Air Combat. he was so impressed vd my skills that he openly declared me to be the best he ever taught.
 

Yusuf

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You did great disservice to the nation by leaving the armed forces. Should have stayed and trained young guns to be highly trained and skilled like you.
 

pmaitra

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I recall a discussion about not so well maintained airfields.

How about we install jet engines on our Mil-26 helicopters so that they can go up to those heights and carry massive loads of supplies? Surely, those airfields can be used by these helos?
 

W.G.Ewald

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I would request members to read this article carefully (and some of you might already have) and do a critical evaluation of the article. Just to remind you, I am seeking insight into things one should not do, and not a shower of praises. :) Please help me out.

Thank you in advance.

The article made me think about what I have read about USAF experience during the Korean War. In particular a cargo aircraft crashed when it could not fly out of a valley.
 
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ladder

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Wildlife body shoots down Rann road plan for third time
A fresh bid by security forces to revive plans for a road running through both the Great and Little Rann of Kutch has been shot down by the National Board for Wildlife (NBWL), the country's apex authority on wildlife and protected areas, for the third time.

The Rann Road is a 225-km road proposed by Gujarat's Road and Building Department. The proposal has been supported by the BSF and the state's Home, Tourism and, interestingly, Environment and Forest departments on the ground of defence logistics.

In the last NBWL meeting, a BSF representative proposed a 32-km detour around Flamingo city and culverts every 20 km along the road to allow the mixing of fresh and salty water in the Rann.
Wildlife body shoots down Rann road plan for third time - Indian Express
 

ladder

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Roads along border areas delayed by seven years
Antony tells BRO to take help from govt agencies, pvt sector
Ajay Banerjee/TNS

New Delhi, May 26
Roads needed by security forces along the frontier with China have been delayed by five to seven years forcing Defence Minister AK Antony to make a major shift. He has told the Border Roads Organisation (BRO) to "look at other public sector companies and even private companies to expedite road construction".

The BRO, a body under the Ministry of Defence, is tasked with laying down roads in the Himalayas, especially those needed for strategic purposes. Antony, at a review meeting of the BRO on May 20, not only asked the BRO to augment its own capacity, he specifically told officials to 'harness the potential' of other public sector organisations and private companies, sources told the Tribune. The National Highways Authority of India is one such body in the government domain.

The Defence Minister was said to be 'angry' at the long delays and asked how deadlines were being missed. Across the border, China continues to build rapidly.

Data of the BRO till March 31, 2013, shows that only 16 of the 73 roads along the Chinese frontier have been completed. The remaining have been delayed with deadlines getting extended. The problems include slow-pace of work, pending clearances from the environment ministry, adverse working conditions like snow-bound areas, non-availability of labour and lastly, in some areas dropping of material is possible only through helicopters.

Most of these roads have been okayed by the high-profile China Study Group with an eye to facilitate movements of troops and equipment. Sources said Antony made it clear to the BRO that he would seek allocation of more funds "provided they showed sufficient progress by October this year."

The most glaring delay was the construction of the 255 km of road connecting Darbok-Shyok-Daulat Beg Oldie in northern Ladakh. The road was scheduled for completion in 2012, but is now slated for completion in 2016. The recent three-week long stand-off between Indian and Chinese troops south east of Daulat Beg Oldie had exposed how Indian Army and the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) struggled on terrain that has no road while their counterparts in China had metalled road just few kilometers short of the stand-off location.

In J&K, only three of the 12 allocated roads are complete, the rest has been delayed by several years with fresh completion dates being either 2016 or 'beyond 2016'. These includes the roads that connect the advanced landing ground of Fukche and forward locations like Demchok, both in south-eastern Ladakh, along the LAC with China. Another one pending is across the 18,300-feet high Marsimk-la pass that will give Indian troops an easy access to a commanding view of a the LAC north of the disputed Pangong lake in Eastern Ladakh.

The worst hit is Arunachal Pradesh. Out of the 21 roads allocated to the BRO, only nine have been completed, three of which have a length of less than 20 km each.

Uttarakhand was allocated 14 roads but none has been completed. Here the BRO has explained that a ban on quarrying for stones in the upper reaches of the Ganges has affected the work. However, the shocker is the non-completion of mere 6.5-km road connection between Girthidobla and Sumna which was slated for completion in 2012.

Glaring delay

Data of the BRO till March 31, 2013, shows that only 16 of the 73 roads along the Chinese frontier have been completed

The construction of the 255 km of road connecting Darbok-Shyok-Daulat Beg Oldie in northern Ladakh was scheduled for completion in 2012, but is now slated for completion in 2016

In J&K, only three of the 12 allocated roads are complete, the rest has been delayed by several years with fresh completion dates being either 2016 or 'beyond 2016'

The worst hit is Arunachal Pradesh. Out of the 21 roads allocated to the BRO, only nine have been completed, three of which have a length of less than 20 km each
The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Main News
 

Kunal Biswas

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@pmaitra, In Article it is true about the terrain and difficulties, But at the same time it failed to see the enemy loge-tic chains in the same terrain and think from there point of view, If IAF was active in war, I am sure Canberras would be tasked for bombing narrow supply chains and at least stop PLA actives during Day hours and other fighters would be good for CAP missions with fuel tanks not CAS..

Now, If we see from PLAAF point of view to encounter IAF moves, they have very little in hand, they were weakest during those days, there Rip off fighter engines were not capable as Hunters and GNATs and other western engines for operating in those altitudes..

If IAF was active back then, 1962 would have been very different..
 
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Kunal Biswas

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You know that MI-26 are powered by three turbine engines ?

For now, MI-17V5 / Dhruv are suited for operation over those heights..

I recall a discussion about not so well maintained airfields.

How about we install jet engines on our Mil-26 helicopters so that they can go up to those heights and carry massive loads of supplies? Surely, those airfields can be used by these helos?
 

pmaitra

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You know that MI-26 are powered by three turbine engines ?
No, it is powered by two engines.
Powerplant: 2 × Lotarev D-136 turboshafts, 8,500 kW (11,399 shp) each
Source: Mil Mi-26 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am talking about adding two extra jets to help it gain more altitude. Something like what we did with our C-119 Packet, where we added an extra jet engine so that it can operate in those heights.



In case of Mil-26, we should be able to attach long wings, extending just out of the radius of the main rotor blades and install two jets on the edge on both sides, in vertical and not horizontal orientation, to give it extra lift.

For now, MI-17V5 / Dhruv are suited for operation over those heights..
That is correct, but those helicopters won't be able to carry AFVs.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Presently AFV such as BMP-2 can only be paradrop by IL-76 and may be C-130J..

I dont know about Jet engine use on helo, very interesting but very radical..

No, it is powered by two engines.

That is correct, but those helicopters won't be able to carry AFVs.
 

Simple_Guy

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Experts on job for all weather fence: Lt Gen Hooda www dailyexcelsior com

He said the MHA had set up a team of experts including engineers to examine feasibility of all weather fencing, which should withstand 20 feet to 40 feet snowfall, which was witnessed during snowfall in the winter in some parts of the State.

The Union Home Ministry had already consulted representatives from the IIT, Central Public Works Department, National Buildings Construction Corporation and Army's Engineering Corps to ascertain the feasibility of having fencing that can endure heavy snow falls and avalanches.

MOD Edit
Source: http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/experts-on-job-for-all-weather-fence-lt-gen-hooda/
 

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