France and others weapons: Pacific security?

Armand2REP

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whats the difference between VBCI and VAB...? both are IFV right...??
VBCI is the replacement for AMX-10P, the heavier end of IFV. It has higher levels of protection, carries more troops and heavier fire power.
 

p2prada

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You would move several thousand with the equipment, up to 5000. C-17 has 54 seating on the walls and 80 on pallets. That would be 74 flights in troop carrier but it is horribly inefficient at it. For large troop numbers you would lease commercial airliners. A330 can carry 400 and do the job in 25 flights. A380 can move 853 and move 10,000 in 12 flights.

But as we know, France will never have C-17s. The transport wing of AdA wasn't meant to airlift more than a light brigade and parachute brigade on short notice. The A400M, KC-390 and A330 MRTT will enable us to move a rapid reaction division in a few days.
Yeah. I figured that. The Americans used commercial aircraft as well.
 

Drsomnath999

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It is like asking for a link for dropping bombs. It is ancient technology.
blah!!!
.It looks so easy as it seems to you huh???







This is not something that can be answered by a link but only by studying.

Start with Radar basics first:
http://www.stealthskater.com/Documents/ECM_02.pdf
keep those garbage links with urselfs .boy
it has got nothing related to what i need


How do you know that? Receiver strength is not determined by size of the airframe like radars are.

The Phalcon can detect and track targets passively from 600Km away which is quite normal for it.
it 's about internet skills my dear if u had taken the pain to browse the net u could have also got it but u didnt.
F22's ALR -94 has passivley detection of range around 200-250 nmi which can be easily see in wiki also ok i qoute from another forum
A target which is using radar to search for the F-22 or other friendly aircraft can be detected, tracked and identified by the ALR-94 long before its radar can see anything, at ranges of 250 nm or more. As the range closes, but still above 100 nm, the APG-77 can be cued by the ALR-94 to search for other aircraft in the hostile flight. The system uses techniques such as cued tracking: since the track file, updated by the ALR-94, can tell the radar where to look, it can detect and track the target with a very narrow beam, measuring as little as 2[degrees] by 2[degrees] in azimuth and elevation. One engineer calls it "a laser beam, not a searchlight. We want to use our resources on the high-value targets. We don't track targets that are too far away to be a threat."
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-9268-start-0.html

another link
Lockheed Stealth - Bill Sweetman - Google Books

meanwhile rafale Spectra has a passive detection about 200km


The International Rafale forum • View topic - Rafale avionics - general overview
Dassault Rafale Avionics
These data were published by Thales AND Dassault-Aviation (the original sources) in several downloadable documents previous to 2007 which is the LAST time anyone had acces to them, since they changed their website at least three times and these documents are no longer available.

if ur not poor in maths like me (LOL) then atleast u can appreciate the difference





Your links and sources are marketing brochures.



Nothing to post here except for the fact that you are taken in on the marketing hype.
then i cant do anything
my know ur rafale thread then also is marketting brochure & rafale's role in libya is also a marketting hype . nothing else






How do you know IR shots have been successful? Not even a single BVR IR shot has been recorded till date.

Why should only IR shots be successful when EM shots are superior?
that s the problem with u,U dont take the pain to find the correct info from the web which i do.
read this image & save it if u want u may need it as refference for future.

http://pogoarchives.org/labyrinth/09/06.pdf

Its not about how do i know ,its about facts which says itself which u dont wanna accept .IR guided missiles are most succesful missiles in history & would
also remain in future .

Finish that Pdf I posted. Shoot questions if you don't understand anything.
Have you ever heard of Home on Jam? Do you know what it does? Do you know how it does it?

After you know these, you would know what kind of capability aircraft can possess to achieve the same.
kindly keep those garbage links to yourselfs i dont need it . NOW WTF has home on jam got to with passive cueing of missiles with EW suite(RWR).Do u
think i am retard that u can fool me???
[
B]what is home on jamming[/B]
some modern fire-and-forget missiles like the Vympel R-77 and the AMRAAM are able to home in directly on sources of radar jamming if the jamming is too powerful to allow them to find and track the target normally. This mode, called 'home-on-jam', actually makes the missile's job easier. Some missile seekers actually target the enemy's radiation sources, and are therefore called "anti-radiation missiles" (ARM). The jamming in this case effectively becomes a beacon announcing the presence and location of the transmitter. This makes the use of such ECM a difficult decision; it may serve to obscure an exact location from a non-ARM missile, but in doing so it must put the jamming vehicle at risk of being targeted and hit by ARMs.

now WTF is this related to cueing of bvraams /AGM with EW suite (RWR) HUH???????

Oh boy
take a free advice from me


1st learn yourselfs the true fact then preach lectures to others.ok



Lastly i wanna say
I know my country has chosen a plane which it does what it says ,U can take it as marketting B.S or whatever .i dont give a damn.
Yes u can continue posting garbage i am off for now
.

i
 

p2prada

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it 's about internet skills my dear if u had taken the pain to browse the net u could have also got it but u didnt.
F22's ALR -94 has passivley detection of range around 200-250 nmi which can be easily see in wiki also ok i qoute from another forum
Let me point out what you missed in the quote you posted.
A target which is using radar to search for the F-22 or other friendly aircraft can be detected, tracked and identified by the ALR-94 long before its radar can see anything, at ranges of 250 nm or more. As the range closes, but still above 100 nm, the APG-77 can be cued by the ALR-94 to search for other aircraft in the hostile flight. The system uses techniques such as cued tracking: since the track file, updated by the ALR-94, can tell the radar where to look, it can detect and track the target with a very narrow beam, measuring as little as 2[degrees] by 2[degrees] in azimuth and elevation. One engineer calls it "a laser beam, not a searchlight. We want to use our resources on the high-value targets. We don't track targets that are too far away to be a threat."
Do you see the ones in red? Do you understand what they mean?

Do you even realize this capability was achieved in the mid 90s?

Do you realize this capability has been in existence for even longer and has been in use before as well?

Do you know that 250nm is previous generation technology?

No you don't because you don't know anything.

This article was written in 2000 which means this technology has been in existence for at least 10 years or more.

Try 500NM on F-35. Rafale has also gone beyond that simple distance of 200Km with a simple software upgrade.

From the forum you posted. It is funny how the Rafale's figure is upto 200Km +. But of course you won't get it.
Let them make up their minds first. If it is really upto 200Km or 200Km+, which actually means anything.

Do you know that it's been over 2 decades since we have had Tranquil and Tarang and we still don't know anything about these?

that s the problem with u,U dont take the pain to find the correct info from the web which i do.
read this image & save it if u want u may need it as refference for future.
Your attempt is cute. Did you forget what I had posted?
Let me refresh your memory.
How do you know IR shots have been successful? Not even a single BVR IR shot has been recorded till date.
Good, now that you know what I am talking about why don't you check your pictures again for a BVR shot using IR seekers?

The answer is : There are none. Do you know why? That's because during the whole time only Russians had a proper IR seeker mated to a BVR and they never used it. MICA IR came two decades later.

Its not about how do i know ,its about facts which says itself which u dont wanna accept .IR guided missiles are most succesful missiles in history & would
also remain in future .
That's why you should read what the other person posts first. You shouldn't get too excited and jump to conclusions. Little kids do that a lot.

If they were never fired in the first place, then how can the be more successful than EM missiles.

kindly keep those garbage links to yourselfs i dont need it . NOW WTF has home on jam got to with passive cueing of missiles with EW suite(RWR).Do u
think i am retard that u can fool me???
That garbage link has more information than you can digest. But it will at least tell you what the big boys know. I never called you a retard, but it seems I may have to come to that conclusion anyway. I am not fooling you anyway, it seems somethings are merely difficult for you to grasp.

now WTF is this related to cueing of bvraams /AGM with EW suite (RWR) HUH???????
That's why I said you are ignorant. You don't know how to relate one thing with the other. The reason why I told you to read the Pdf I posted.

You merely believe a radar is different from a RWR and HOJ because the words are different. For big boys like me there is little to no difference between a radar, RWR, seekers, transmitters and receivers and how HOJ is achieved using a combination of these things.

Lastly i wanna say
I agree that the aircraft chosen does everything it promises, but, the thing is YOU don't know what it does and that's the only difference.
 

Mad Indian

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P2P and Dr.Somnath at it again :pop:

Interesting to watch :devious::evil:
 

Mad Indian

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i don't care about scs. my response is the way you think taking down china navy is piece cake.

as for economy leverage, every country do that. its naive to think a major power like china won't take advantage of their softpower.
You do speak a lot out of context. I never said Chinese navy will be a piece of cake. I said resisting the Chinese bully is easier if the ASEAN had diplomatic and military backing from countries like France. Thats what you quoted remember?

And You also claimed that China is not a Bully- seriously a :wtf: statement
 

s002wjh

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You do speak a lot out of context. I never said Chinese navy will be a piece of cake. I said resisting the Chinese bully is easier if the ASEAN had diplomatic and military backing from countries like France. Thats what you quoted remember?

And You also claimed that China is not a Bully- seriously a :wtf: statement
ok give me evidences of bully? did they send war ships? No. did they harass other claiming party fisherman/ship, yes but so does the other claiming party. so what is your version of bully other than something in your mind. whatever france said its just words/symbolic, they might do some military excerise with vietnam and other asean nation at best. but when it come to military support, only a naive person will think france will actually help those country and have a military confrontation with china. right now no one including us want to get involve in the SCS claiming dispute.
 

Armand2REP

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Yeah. I figured that. The Americans used commercial aircraft as well.
Using A400M as the base transporter...

300 VAB would require 100 flights

100 AMX-10 RCR requires 50 flights

800 PVP and VBL requires 88 flights

140 Helos requires 55 flights

MRTT can carry the support gear while conducting aerial refueling

______________

So if we drop the heavy armour we can do it in 300 flights, we don't have anything to carry Leclercs unless we disassemble them but I want my division rolling off the plane ready to fight. This is a potent force even without VBCI or Leclercs. The para brigade is still at our disposal with 8,500 men

With 50 A400Ms it would take 6 sorties utilising all of them, depending on distance you can do 3 sorties a day so figure two days to move the rapid reaction division. After they have secured the line we can bring in the heavy armour to reinforce it for an advance. It is going to be an awesome transport capability.
 

techsupport

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ok give me evidences of bully? did they send war ships? No. did they harass other claiming party fisherman/ship, yes but so does the other claiming party. so what is your version of bully other than something in your mind. whatever france said its just words/symbolic, they might do some military excerise with vietnam and other asean nation at best. but when it come to military support, only a naive person will think france will actually help those country and have a military confrontation with china. right now no one including us want to get involve in the SCS claiming dispute.
That's for sure? Read the news not being supported by the Chinese Government. Look around your country. Slowly, you're being surrounded and all you can say is they wont go to war with China. I'll give you a clue. Sorry for sounding like some sort of racist but look, we're Asians. As much as my country welcome their support its just that the West wont allow us to overtake them. You're in America. You or any Asian you know in the US should've experienced this one way or another. So this is not actually China telling other Asian countries to bow down. This is actually the West telling China to know your place.

China, peaceful rise is the way to go. Just look at Japan and Germany. They're prosperous today but could've been a lot lot more if they didnt succumb to greed.
 

p2prada

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You can move the heavies with C-17s. Still that is a lot of troops and equipment.

The numbers you gave seem to be quite similar to move a US Brigade Combat Group in 2 days along with heavy armour. Apart from the main force there are all these support troops like Medical, Transport, C4I etc Battalions.

Btw, your numbers should take 12 sorties at 3 sorties a day. You forgot to count the return flight.
 

Armand2REP

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You can move the heavies with C-17s. Still that is a lot of troops and equipment.
We don't have C-17s.

The numbers you gave seem to be quite similar to move a US Brigade Combat Group in 2 days along with heavy armour. Apart from the main force there are all these support troops like Medical, Transport, C4I etc Battalions.
French forces are largely rapid reaction so it was made for air transportability. That is a large reason why A400M is enough to move them instead of needing C-17s. I included support lift in the MRTT that doubles as a tanker.

Btw, your numbers should take 12 sorties at 3 sorties a day. You forgot to count the return flight.
Sortie means completion of the mission. For air transport it is going form point A to point B back to point A. There can be many stops on the way to refuel, it doesn't make it a different sortie. I included the return flight in my calculations for a 3000km distance.
 

p2prada

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We don't have C-17s.
I was making a case for getting C-17s.

French forces are largely rapid reaction so it was made for air transportability. That is a large reason why A400M is enough to move them instead of needing C-17s. I included support lift in the MRTT that doubles as a tanker.
Even without the heavies that is a formidable force. Eventually the Mistral can bring in the heavies over time.

Sortie means completion of the mission. For air transport it is going form point A to point B back to point A. There can be many stops on the way to refuel, it doesn't make it a different sortie. I included the return flight in my calculations for a 3000km distance.
Hmm, I thought that applied only to fighters.
 

Armand2REP

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I was making a case for getting C-17s.
For who... France? We don't want Yanky kit if we can make it ourselves.

Even without the heavies that is a formidable force. Eventually the Mistral can bring in the heavies over time.
If the target is in a littoral region, most of the assault would be coming by sea. It is the cheaper way to project power. French amphibious brigades have never carried Leclerc because it wasn't possible until we received LCAT. It takes up alot of space and trips to transport tanks when you are trying to establish a beachhead so it is better to swiftly move lighter units in first. Once a perimetre is established then heavy armour can be brought in to prepare for offensive action. It is really easier just to take a port facility and bring all the heavy stuff in on Ro-Ros. We have a dozen of those available.

Hmm, I thought that applied only to fighters.
USAF uses it to describe C-17 missions and since they set the bar for global terminology I feel confident in using it.
 

Mad Indian

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ok give me evidences of bully? did they send war ships? No. did they harass other claiming party fisherman/ship, yes but so does the other claiming party. so what is your version of bully other than something in your mind. whatever france said its just words/symbolic, they might do some military excerise with vietnam and other asean nation at best. but when it come to military support, only a naive person will think france will actually help those country and have a military confrontation with china. right now no one including us want to get involve in the SCS claiming dispute.
China is the most peaceful nation in the face of the earth and it is not a bully.:rolleyes:. if that makes you happy, believe it.

Anyway, that aside, the entire world, except your "all weather" whore and the Nuclear nuisance NoKo, thinks China is a bully, but they are all paronoid and deluded but you are right that China is a not a bully :rolleyes:

Edit: links for the Bullying by china

http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/home/top-news/26804-exclusive-adviser-to-un-cautions-china-vs-bullying-phl
http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/feedback/chinas-neighbours-need-a-friend
http://www.internationalpeaceandconflict.org/profiles/blogs/china-bullies-neighbors-over
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/editorials/china-should-resolve-territorial-dispute-in-south-china-sea-through-negotiation/article4106728/
http://bigdogdotcom.wordpress.com/2012/06/14/neighbourhood-bully/

If you want I can give more links:pop:
 
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p2prada

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Yeah. I meant C-17s for France. It is not necessary though.

Any French action will be more or less a combined NATO action. Some one will bring in the heavies.
 

asianobserve

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France will not be invading countries with powerful military by itself. It will always ride on the back of those dumb Americans (like how it rode on the back of US forces in the Lybia campaign and then later on claim the credit for the ops). So there's no need for it to invest in rapid heavy lift capability like the Americans.
 

pankaj nema

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France will not be invading countries with powerful military by itself. It will always ride on the back of those dumb Americans (like how it rode on the back of US forces in the Lybia campaign and then later on claim the credit for the ops). So there's no need for it to invest in rapid heavy lift capability like the Americans.
What is wrong with it

France is a member of NATO and so it is natural that NATO forces make joint planning
of their missions

Otherwise how can such expensive operations be conducted if every country brings all
types of weapon systems

" Jointness " is the way to go Read this

Jointness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Zebra

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French Army Exercise To Demonstrate Scorpion Capabilities

Jun. 28, 2012 - 02:50PM, By PIERRE TRAN

PARIS — The French Army is due June 29 to stage an exercise, dubbed demonstration of cooperative combat, to show how a future mechanized infantry unit would work under the Scorpion program, a procurement office spokesman said.

The exercise, to be held at the urban warfare training center at the Sissonne Army base, will be presented to officials from the Defense Ministry, including the Direction Générale de l'Armement procurement office.

The French Army is anxious to maintain the Scorpion modernization program as the government gets ready to cut spending to balance the budget over the coming years. Scorpion has been estimated at 10 billion euros ($12.4 billion) over a decade.

Some 250 soldiers in a combined unit in the blue force will go up against a 70-strong red force, with some 60 armored vehicles deployed including VBCI infantry fighting vehicle, AMX10 light tank, Leclerc heavy tank, VBL scout car and PVP small vehicle.

The exercise is intended to show how technology to be developed under Scorpion can improve acquisition and the updating of information and communications among soldiers plugged into a tactical network.

Firing beyond the line of sight and a VBCI with extensive onboard electronics are among the concepts and demonstrators in the exercise.

Much of the technology has come from Nexter, Sagem and Thales.

French Army Exercise To Demonstrate Scorpion Capabilities | Defense News | defensenews.com
 

Armand2REP

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France will not be invading countries with powerful military by itself. It will always ride on the back of those dumb Americans (like how it rode on the back of US forces in the Lybia campaign and then later on claim the credit for the ops). So there's no need for it to invest in rapid heavy lift capability like the Americans.
That's the dumbest thing I've heard in months. France drafted the resolution, was first in, last out, destroyed 10X as many targets as the US, armed the rebels and coordinated their attacks. Not only that but also got the Arab League to back the resolution and commanded their contributions. Obama took a "back seat" because this wasn't his war... it was French which is why NTC is arming their AF with French fighters.

If France needs to intervene on some far away island chain, it is more than capable of doing so without Yankee assistance.
 

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