Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Taiwan

Zebra

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Former general says China won't be afraid to use force to solve Taiwan problem - China - The Straits Times

Published on Dec 07, 2014

BEIJING (AFP) - An army general has warned that China will not leave the Taiwan problem "unresolved for a long time", after the island's Beijing-friendly ruling party suffered a bruising election defeat, a state-run newspaper said.

Mr Liu Jingsong told the annual conference of the Global Times newspaper that the Chinese government would not be afraid to use force to resolve "the Taiwan issue", the Chinese-language paper reported on Saturday on its website without specifying further.

"The Taiwan issue will not remain unresolved for a long time. We will not abandon the possibility of using force; according to the law, it is also an option to resolve the issue by military means if necessary," said Mr Liu, a former president of the influential Chinese Academy of Military Sciences. He retired from active service with the People's Liberation Army in 1997.

"Whoever has political power in Taiwan, the only path (for the island) is to preserve the development of peaceful relations between the two sides of the strait, and eventually to bring about reunification," the general said.....
 

Zebra

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force to solve Ta

^^

Chinese leadership says something and military says different thing.

One more case..............

Xi says China won't use force to achieve aims - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English

President reassures that Bejing open to talks over South China Sea days after Obama warns against conflict in Asia.

Last updated: 17 Nov 2014 09:47

Chinese President Xi Jinping has vowed to always use peaceful means in pursuit of Beijing's goals, including in maritime disputes, just days after US President Barack Obama warned of the dangers of outright conflict in Asia.

"China remains unshakable in its resolve to pursue peaceful development. Neither turbulence nor war serves the fundamental interests of the Chinese people," Xi said on Monday, addressing the Australian parliament.

"There's only one trend in today's world, that is, the trend of peace and development and win/win cooperation."

China is locked in disputes with four Southeast Asian countries over outcrops in the South China Sea, and with Japan over another set of islets.

"A review of history shows that countries that attempted to pursue development with force invariably failed," Xi said. "China is dedicated to upholding peace. Peace is precious and needs to be protected."

But he added: "We must always be on high alert against the factors that may deprive us of peace."

The leaders of the US, Australia and Japan on Sunday called for the peaceful settlement of the maritime disputes. The day before, Obama had warned of "disputes over territory - remote islands and rocky shoals - that threaten to spiral into confrontation".

Open to dialogue

Xi said he was open to dialogue.

"It is China's longstanding position to address peacefully its disputes with countries concerned and territorial sovereignty and maritime interests through dialogue and consultation," he said.

"China has settled land boundary issues with 12 out of its 14 neighbours through friendly consultation. And we will continue to work in this direction," Xi said.

"The Chinese government is ready to enhance dialogue and cooperation with relevant countries to maintain freedom of navigation and the safety of maritime routes, and ensure a maritime border of peace, tranquillity and cooperation."

Xi made the comments as he sealed a long-awaited free trade agreement with Australia - a country that has long profited from China's voracious demand for its natural resources - after nearly a decade of talks.

Source: AFP
 

Ray

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force to solve Ta

Hopefully Xi is not being the usual ambiguous that is the patent right of the Chinese.

Looking at London and Talking to Tokyo.

But, surprise, surprise!

The Chinese double talk cannot be far.

Taking Taiwan by force?

Peaceful Force?

Now, what is that?
 

Kshatriya87

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

Using force in Taiwan will not work efficiently for the Chinese. Their expansionism vision is shown once again.
 

Redhawk

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

I lived in Taiwan for 5.5 years and I know that apart from a hard core of Chinese nationalists, mainly waishenren or mainlanders and their descendants, who are diehard KMT supporters, there is not much support for Taiwan to unify with the People's Republic of China. The Chinese Communist Party is very much disliked in Taiwan, which is hardly surprising. Hypothetically, Taiwanese nationalists and independence supporters might have softened their attitude to the China if the CCP were not in power and China were a democracy, but the reality is very different from the hypothetical.

The current Beijing directive that compels a certain proportion of the seats of the Hong Kong Legislative Council, LegCo, to be appointed by Beijing in place of democratically elected local candidates, and the subsequent massive demonstrations over this move and the government crackdown on them in Hong Kong, are all evidence to the Taiwanese that the "one country, two systems" is a major con, a big lie. Indeed, the Taiwanese have never believed in it. They just don't trust Beijing. And who can blame them?

The other thing is that over the last 12 years or so, since the early 2000s or about 5 years after the handover, which was enough time for Beijing to lull Hongkongers into a false sense of security and keep the locals quiet and calm for the first 5 years of Beijing's rule, there has been increasing creeping control and manipulation of Hong Kong's media by Beijing. News commentators and journalists, for example, that are even slightly critical of Beijing's actions or policies in the Territory are sacked from their positions after Beijing puts pressure on their management to get rid of them. The CCP doesn't like criticism. More proof, if more proof were needed, to the Taiwanese of Beijing's sinister intentions.

Even Hong Kong's commercial culture has suffered from Beijing's forced meddling. Again over the last 12 years or so, the influx of mainlanders into HK has driven up property values and rents and it is increasingly difficult for locals to afford to buy their own properties and are forced to pay high rents. Many of HK's well-known, long-established local restaurants and old shops have closed because of huge increases in commercial rents. And this has changed much of the traditional and familiar face of HK's commerce and trading. More grist for the mill for the Taiwanese stance against "one country, two systems."

No two ways about it, things are truly ominous for Hong Kong and her people. And the Taiwanese, who watch developments in HK like a hawk, know it.
 
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s002wjh

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

Not really news they had the policy since 49
 

s002wjh

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

I lived in Taiwan for 5.5 years and I know that apart from a hard core of Chinese nationalists, mainly waishenren or mainlanders and their descendants, who are diehard KMT supporters, there is not much support for Taiwan to unify with the People's Republic of China. The Chinese Communist Party is very much disliked in Taiwan, which is hardly surprising. Hypothetically, Taiwanese nationalists and independence supporters might have softened their attitude to the China if the CCP were not in power and China were a democracy, but the reality is very different from the hypothetical.

The current Beijing directive that compels a certain proportion of the seats of the Hong Kong Legislative Council, LegCo, to be appointed by Beijing in place of democratically elected local candidates, and the subsequent massive demonstrations over this move and the government crackdown on them in Hong Kong, are all evidence to the Taiwanese that the "one country, two systems" is a major con, a big lie. Indeed, the Taiwanese have never believed in it. They just don't trust Beijing. And who can blame them?

The other thing is that over the last 12 years or so, since the early 2000s or about 5 years after the handover, which was enough time for Beijing to lull Hongkongers into a false sense of security and keep the locals quiet and calm for the first 5 years of Beijing's rule, there has been increasing creeping control and manipulation of Hong Kong's media by Beijing. News commentators and journalists, for example, that are even slightly critical of Beijing's actions or policies in the Territory are sacked from their positions after Beijing puts pressure on their management to get rid of them. The CCP doesn't like criticism. More proof, if more proof were needed, to the Taiwanese of Beijing's sinister intentions.

Even Hong Kong's commercial culture has suffered from Beijing's forced meddling. Again over the last 12 years or so, the influx of mainlanders into HK has driven up property values and rents and it is increasingly difficult for locals to afford to buy their own properties and are forced to pay high rents. Many of HK's well-known, long-established local restaurants and old shops have closed because of huge increases in commercial rents. And this has changed much of the traditional and familiar face of HK's commerce and trading. More grist for the mill for the Taiwanese stance against "one country, two systems."

No two ways about it, things are truly ominous for Hong Kong and her people. And the Taiwanese, who watch developments in HK like a hawk, know it.
I disagree what do u expect police do when protesters black road, business and financial districts for more than 2 months. no wonder recent poll from HK shows 86% against it vs 47% against it at the beginning of protests

As for news media there are tons new agency support it and there are also those who against it. China pretty mich leave hk along except concern over hk high lvl politic As for hk house prices its because chinese getting richer so they start buying thing. It has nothing to do with politics
 
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Redhawk

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

I disagree what do u expect police do when protesters black road, business and financial districts for more than 2 months. no wonder recent poll from HK shows 86% against it vs 47% against it at the beginning of protests

As for news media there are tons new agency support it and there are also those who against it. China pretty mich leave hk along except concern over hk high lvl politic As for hk house prices its because chinese getting richer so they start buying thing. It has nothing to do with politics
Tell that to the Taiwanese.
 

no smoking

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

Tell that to the Taiwanese.
Well, that is exactly what CCP is telling the Taiwanese: either accept the current offer, or get even less with the time pass.

Mainland may not be able to make Taiwan the Swiss of Asia, but she definitely has a lot means to make it the Greece of Asia.
 

Redhawk

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

Well, that is exactly what CCP is telling the Taiwanese: either accept the current offer, or get even less with the time pass.

Mainland may not be able to make Taiwan the Swiss of Asia, but she definitely has a lot means to make it the Greece of Asia.
The CCP telling the Taiwanese to either accept the present offer or get less in the future is simply the CCP attempting to dictate terms to Taiwan and sounds like just one more threat from Beijing. The Taiwanese are tired of threats from Beijing. The fact is that the vast majority of the people of Taiwan do not want unification (not reunification) with the People's Republic of China and to be governed by the Chinese Communist Party; they do want their independence from China and to be an independent, sovereign state. Full stop. They simply do not believe that the CCP's stated policy of "one country, two systems" is said in good faith and that the CCP is sincere. In other words, the Taiwanese quite simply believe that the CCP's stated policy of "one country, two systems" is a lie, a falsehood. Beijing is trying to force or coerce the Taiwanese into accepting unification. It hasn't worked so far. The harder Beijing tries to push the Taiwanese into accepting unification with the PRC, the more Taiwanese refuse to accept it. And Beijing always trying to bully a small state like Taiwan demonstrates to the Taiwanese people Beijing's lack of good faith and lack of good will towards Taiwan and the Taiwanese people.
 
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no smoking

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

The CCP telling the Taiwanese to either accept the present offer or get less in the future is simply the CCP attempting to dictate terms to Taiwan and sounds like just one more threat from Beijing. The Taiwanese are tired of threats from Beijing. The fact is that the vast majority of the people of Taiwan do not want unification (not reunification) with the People's Republic of China and to be governed by the Chinese Communist Party; they do want their independence from China and to be an independent, sovereign state. Full stop. They simply do not believe that the CCP's stated policy of "one country, two systems" is said in good faith and that the CCP is sincere. In other words, the Taiwanese quite simply believe that the CCP's stated policy of "one country, two systems" is a lie, a falsehood. Beijing is trying to force or coerce the Taiwanese into accepting unification. It hasn't worked so far. The harder Beijing tries to push the Taiwanese into accepting unification with the PRC, the more Taiwanese refuse to accept it. And Beijing always trying to bully a small state like Taiwan demonstrates to the Taiwanese people Beijing's lack of good faith and lack of good will towards Taiwan and the Taiwanese people.
It is not whether Taiwanese believe CCP or whoever else.
It is that their fate is decided in Beijing and Washington.
You can make the beautiful speech as much as you want, the problem is that Taiwanese people is not willing to sacrifice anything for their "independence" but empty words.
 

Redhawk

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

It is not whether Taiwanese believe CCP or whoever else.
It is that their fate is decided in Beijing and Washington.
You can make the beautiful speech as much as you want, the problem is that Taiwanese people is not willing to sacrifice anything for their "independence" but empty words.
Well in that case the CCP are denying the Taiwanese their right to self-determination. If Taiwan's fate is being decided in Beijing, and not by the Taiwanese themselves, then that is not democratic. The PRC is not a democracy and the CCP is not a democratic political party and the Taiwanese don't want live in either the PRC or under the rule of the CCP. When the PRC invades Taiwan, we shall see how much the Taiwanese are willing to sacrifice for their independence from the People's Republic of China.
 

Ray

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

Taiwan president will deal with China but not at expense of sovereignty

Taiwanese President Ma Ying-jeou is faced with a hugely delicate balancing act: the need to maintain good economic relations with China while trying to keep Beijing's push for reunification at bay.
The latter has become an increasingly tense issue.
During a recent session with reporters in the presidential office building, Ma leaned back in a dark-blue armchair under an oil painting of Sun Yat-sen -- modern China's founding father whose legacy is claimed by Taipei and Beijing-- and delivered a clear message: economic relations with China should be developed but not at the cost of sovereignty.
Taiwan president: I will not discuss reunification - CNN.com
Well-Known Author: Why Taiwanese Don't Want Unity With China -

Democracy isn't just an ideological choice–it's a lifestyle. And that, in so many words, is why Lung Ying-Tai (龙应台) believes that Taiwanese do not want to unify with China. Ms. Lung, a Taiwanese author well known within mainland China, argued in a recent opinion piece published on Chinese news sites (full text here) that democracy confers tangible lifestyle benefits that Taiwanese are loathe to forfeit. Her essay, written to describe the lifestyle of an unnamed Taiwanese man, was widely circulated on Sina Weibo, China's Twitter on Friday, October 5. Tea Leaf Nation translates selected portions.
"The Taiwanese people are used to living in a democratic system, which is reflected in their everyday life. Which means: His government building is open to everyone; no guard will check his ID at the door. He enters the building as if he's going into a shopping mall. He does some paperwork, applies for a document, has it stamped, all without obstacles. He waits to be called his number, nobody cuts in line. When it's his turn, the government officer won't give him attitude or trouble.
"If it takes too long to get his things done in the government institution, or the officer is ill-mannered, he can choose to vote for another candidate in four years.

"It's super easy for him to travel or study abroad. He doesn't need approval from his institution, work unit or the government. If he wants to publish a book, no prior censorship is required. His book can go straight into the printing house, and will be published in a month.



"He is used to see government officers be impeached or bow and leave the stage for mistakes in policy-making. He is used to seeing newspaper assailing the government, questioning its officers and revealing unlawful practices. He is used to expressing his distain of political figures and making fun of them.



"He's not afraid of the police, because the law protects his rights. He dares to buy a house, because his private property is protected by the law. He doesn't need to bribe someone for a bed in the hospital. He can criticize someone in public without worrying of being paid back. "¦

"He pays his tax on time, and the money goes to poor children in need and elderly people who live alone. He's not against this. He is used to living in a society where fortune is distributed rather fairly; he doesn't see beggars in extreme poverty on the street, nor luxurious cars. He's used to seeing many civil charity organizations and volunteer workers helping out when disasters happen. "¦"

"Of course, I can find a basket of examples to prove that the Taiwanese are not yet fully 'developed': Their politicians manipulate the people, their political leaders lie to their voters, their government officers are arrogant, their people's representatives are vulgar, the wealth gap is expanding"¦

"Is the confrontation across the strait a debate between unification and independence? Or is it between capitalism and socialism, between separatism and nationalism? It's none of those. For most Taiwanese people, it's a choice of lifestyle, very concrete and specific, not abstract at all."

Well-Known Author: Why Taiwanese Don't Want Unity With China - Tea Leaf Nation
Now, would the Taiwanese people want to join Communist China?
 

s002wjh

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

Tell that to the Taiwanese.
I'm Talking about hk, tawian is different issue. I doubt prc will invade Taiwan any time soon unless tawian announce independence
 

no smoking

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

Well in that case the CCP are denying the Taiwanese their right to self

"How much the Taiwanese are willing to sacrifice for the their independence"?
We already see:
They don't want to spend more money on their military budget!
They don't want to spend 2 years serving in their forces!
They don't want to waist money on their local weapons!
They don't even want their soldiers to train in the days hotter than 32 degree!

If they don't prepare anything extra for this potential war in peace time, how can you believe their determination in the war?
And how can they sacrifice themselves for their independence without preparation before war?
 

Compersion

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

whats the USA policy to the above. do they have any obligations.

what about the image and profile it will do to non-PRC chinese and also agreements and treaties it has with them. taiwan wont be touched militarily.

the invasion is probably more economic dependence and make both taiwan and PRC to be inseparable and closer together economically. there used to be the line of thought that taiwan can be made a special region like hong kong, macau but not sure how space is played out now in the intellectuals in PRC. the solution to having them become one needs a out of the box thinking and not militarily approach. it seems both communists - CPC (PRC) and democrats - KMT (ROC) want to control "China" and is waiting for one to pass away and reduce importance (especially the case for KMT wanting the communists PRC to finish). It might be old approach but its valid. One can see that by how aggressive KMT they were in taking down one of the ex-president in Taiwan. there is also the special regions in hong kong, macau that add to the mix.

one has heard also previously where force was going to be used on hong kong to solve it. probably it ought to have according to the above general.

what is force being used "according to the law"

if non-PRC friendly party comes to power <-> if taiwan follows its constitution <-> if taiwan looks at observing one-china principle on its own terms <-> if taiwan declares it self to be a sovereign state.

long way to go to reach the last part - more chance of communists becoming like KMT.
 

Ray

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

@Compersion

You are spot on when you state that the Communists will become like KMT.

Communism succeed is poverty, squalor and strife domestically.

That is slowly vanishing in China except the Muslim (Hui) dominated areas of China, where one wonders why the CPC or CCP is not concentrating their effort.
 
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t_co

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

lol @ redhawk dishing up the usual propaganda of "small section of KMT diehards and waishengren love china, everyone else in Taiwan hates China"

The bigger reality is that the vast majority of Taiwanese just don't care about whether they are ruled by China or not. Why? Because the harms he ascribes to Chinese sovereignty over Hong Kong - self-censorship in media, rising rents, declining small and medium enterprises etc - already happen in Taiwan, and have happened regardless of whether the KMT or DPP are in power. Remaining independent is no safeguard against it. And the Taiwanese know that.

1. Self-censorship in media happens as media firms consolidate and digitize, because both those actions cost money. With the downfall of Jimmy Lai from his lead role at Next Media, now Taiwanese media will all be dominated by pro-mainland business interests, because China is where the money for Taiwanese media comes from.

2. The rise of China has devastated SMEs all across Asia. You simply can't compete as a small exporter of XYZ product in Taiwan/Korea/Philippines/Malaysia unless you have scale to outmuscle the 10,000-man factories in Guangzhou and Shenzhen. Korea learned scale - the bloodletting of 1997 taught many mid-sized Korean firms to merge into huge conglomerates. Taiwanese/Filipino/Malaysian firms never did, which is why China is kicking their ass out of orbit.

3. Rising rents are also a natural outgrowth of increased globalization and taxes that favor landowners and business owners (lower capital taxes and property taxes) versus workers (high income taxes) . Taiwan, for better or worse, is an intensely globalized economy. Its politicians in either party are owned by business interests who like seeing globalization deepen in Taiwan and like seeing tax policy skew even deeper in their favor. Again, even if China left Taiwan alone, those problems would continue.

Ultimately, though, in politics, the power to inflict pain and violence is the only real power that matters. In that regard, China's ultimate trump card over Taiwan would be its ability to completely dominate Taiwan within 72 hours while using their double agents inside the stay-behind network J M Cole and others are trying so desperately to set up to kill or capture every single 'defiant' Taiwanese that might cause trouble for a mainland occupation. For all of @Redhawk 's defiant and smug pronouncements, his side's endeavor is far more likely to fail than the countervailing endeavor the largest and most sophisticated power in Asia has embarked upon.
 
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Redhawk

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

I'm Talking about hk, tawian is different issue. I doubt prc will invade Taiwan any time soon unless tawian announce independence
I disagree. What happens in HK is followed very closely by the Taiwanese people. Taiwan is not far from HK and developments there naturally affect the attitude and thinking of the Taiwanese towards unification with the PRC. To see the CCP break the conditions of the Joint Declaration with the British when the UK handed over HK to the PRC, would naturally indicate to the Taiwanese what they could expect if they agreed to unification with the PRC. Many Taiwanese justifiably think that Hong Kong's present will become Taiwan's future if the Taiwanese are forced to unify with the PRC.

And I also disagree that the PRC will only invade Taiwan if and when the Taiwanese/ROC government formally declares Taiwan's independence and sovereignty. The PRC armed forces would move against Taiwan in an instant if they thought they could successfully invade Taiwan with impunity: that is, that international condemnation and action against any PRC aggression against Taiwan could be minimised or neutralised and rendered ineffective. I remain thoroughly and deeply sceptical of the CCP's statements on their intentions towards Taiwan and, quite sensibly, so do most Taiwanese.

The Japanese between 1931 and 1945 invaded and occupied enormous areas of East Asia, both North-east and South-east Asia, and huge tracts of the Pacific, thousands of kilometres from the Japanese home islands. It would not be difficult for a burgeoning military and naval power like the PRC to invade an island only 394 km long and only 180 km from the Chinese coast in a few years time. Even now the Chinese coastline facing Taiwan is highly militarised with many surface-to-surface missiles emplaced in batteries there and amphibious and air forces continually exercising in the area. And the militarisation of that section of the Chinese coast which directly threatens Taiwan has been a fact of life that the Taiwanese have had to live with for decades.
 
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Ray

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Re: Former general says China won't be afraid to use force & solve Tai

Taiwan watches Hong Kong because it values democracy and how Communist China works to demolish democracy and introduce its Communist dictatorship to destroy the independent mind of the people and bring in the Communist technique of mind control.

After all Taiwan, Hong Kong people are as Chinese as the Communists. They are also aware that PRC is an pariah in observing international laws and niceties and that it is the sole Communist survivor with an insatiable hunger for expansion.

Therefore, they are worried and so they watch.
 

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