F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

[StealthFlanker]

Even the article states it is not a normal procedure according to Lt. Gen. Jon Davis, Marine Corps commandant for aviation. Are you suggesting he doesn't know what he is talking about?

No, at no point the article states it is not a normal procedure. He said it isn't necessary, they refuel more than double the amount they need and they could be more effective, but it is up to the airforce to set the rules.

It comes as no surprise to Air Force Brig. Gen. Scott Pleus that the Marine Corps jets needed to refuel so many times during the crossing to Iwakuni. The Air Force sets up ocean crossings assuming the worst-case scenario, so that if any aircraft is not able to get fuel at any given time during the journey—whether due to weather or a technical malfunction—the entire group has enough gas to land safely, Pleus explained. For instance, the F-35Bs flew with their refueling probes out during the entire voyage, which significantly increases drag on the aircraft, to simulate a scenario in which the operator is not able to retract the probe. “So when we plan these things we take the worst winds, we take the worst configuration of the airplane, and we say: at the worst time, what would happen?” said Pleus, a former F-16 pilot who now heads the Air Force’s F-35 integration office. “It is very conservative, and the reason why we’re so conservative is because it’s a life or death decision.” Traditionally the Air Force refuels “almost continuously” when crossing a large body of water, as often as every 30 or 40 min., Pleus said. An F-35B, which carries 5,000 lb. less fuel than the Air Force F-35A, likely needs to hit the tanker even more often than that, he noted. Pleus pushed back on Davis’ criticism, stressing that extending time between refuelings during an ocean crossing would mean more risk to pilots. During a combat scenario, however, the Air Force would have a different calculus. Typically on a 6-hr. mission, a pilot would tank just two or three times, according to one Air Force official. It is important to top up before the mission because tankers are too vulnerable to fly alongside fighters during combat

These birds were in a clean and empty config....
Not impressive. Absolutely not.

Again, you don't understand. It is not about how far the aircraft can fly. It is a procedure planed for worse case scenario.

 

[Armand2REP]

No, at no point the article states it is not a normal procedure. He said it isn't necessary, they refuel more than double the amount they need and they could be more effective, but it is up to the airforce to set the rules.

“The airplane has got longer legs than an F-18 with drop tanks, so why are we going with the tanker so often? We don’t need to do that,” said Lt. Gen. Jon Davis, Marine Corps commandant for aviation. “We are tanking a lot more than we should, maybe double [what we should.] We could be a lot more efficient than that.”

 

[BON PLAN]

Again, you don't understand. It is not about how far the aircraft can fly. It is a procedure planed for worse case scenario.

A little bit short that explanation.
The fact the bird has less range than intended is far likely.

after all, F35 is not at one deficiencie from its beginning target.

 

[StealthFlanker]

“The airplane has got longer legs than an F-18 with drop tanks, so why are we going with the tanker so often? We don’t need to do that,” said Lt. Gen. Jon Davis, Marine Corps commandant for aviation. “We are tanking a lot more than we should, maybe double [what we should.] We could be a lot more efficient than that.”

And it is explained shorty after that. It is not about what it can do, but about airforce procedures.
"It comes as no surprise to Air Force Brig. Gen. Scott Pleus that the Marine Corps jets needed to refuel so many times during the crossing to Iwakuni. The Air Force sets up ocean crossings assuming the worst-case scenario, so that if any aircraft is not able to get fuel at any given time during the journey—whether due to weather or a technical malfunction—the entire group has enough gas to land safely, Pleus explained. For instance, the F-35Bs flew with their refueling probes out during the entire voyage, which significantly increases drag on the aircraft, to simulate a scenario in which the operator is not able to retract the probe. “So when we plan these things we take the worst winds, we take the worst configuration of the airplane, and we say: at the worst time, what would happen?” said Pleus, a former F-16 pilot who now heads the Air Force’s F-35 integration office. “It is very conservative, and the reason why we’re so conservative is because it’s a life or death decision.” Traditionally the Air Force refuels “almost continuously” when crossing a large body of water, as often as every 30 or 40 min., Pleus said. An F-35B, which carries 5,000 lb. less fuel than the Air Force F-35A, likely needs to hit the tanker even more often than that, he noted. Pleus pushed back on Davis’ criticism, stressing that extending time between refuelings during an ocean crossing would mean more risk to pilots. During a combat scenario, however, the Air Force would have a different calculus. Typically on a 6-hr. mission, a pilot would tank just two or three times, according to one Air Force official. It is important to top up before the mission because tankers are too vulnerable to fly alongside fighters during combat"

A little bit short that explanation.
The fact the bird has less range than intended is far likely.

Short?, it can't be any clearer. The fact is it is common procedure to refuel ways more than you must to ensure extra safety.

 

[DAC O DAC]

No, at no point the article states it is not a normal procedure. He said it isn't necessary, they refuel more than double the amount they need and they could be more effective, but it is up to the airforce to set the rules.



Again, you don't understand. It is not about how far the aircraft can fly. It is a procedure planed for worse case scenario.

Aren't you tired to support this bad born plane?

 

[StealthFlanker]

Aren't you tired to support this bad born plane?

is it really though, all of this has happened before and it will happen again

 

[asianobserve]

A little demo of F-35 maneuvering abilities

 

[bhramos]

Lockheed Martin abandoned the DAS Northrop sensor for the F-35


Lockheed Martin refused to Northrop Grumman and chose Raytheon to design, perhaps, the most important F-35 sensor, the enhanced aperture visualization system. "This is a serious blow, - said Richard Abulafia of Teal Group, when I asked him to discuss the decision. "And in terms of profitability, the F-35 is almost the only way out, and it also shows that they intend to cut costs for the F-35. Such serious changes as these happen very rarely, especially at this stage of the program."

The Northrop Grumman system, long advertised as revolutionary, allows pilots to see 360 degrees around the aircraft, from above and from below, in front and behind, and giving the F-35 the ability to detect missile launches from a distance of up to 1600 kilometers. (standard official data - 1,280 km.), and also allowing the aircraft to strike ground artillery, had implementation problems for many years. The report of the Director of Operational, Military Tests and Evaluation for 2015 states: "However, the F-35B fleet showed only 14% of the FMC standard." The failures of the distributed aperture system (DAS), the EW system and the EOTS were the most significant criteria pushing the aircraft to partially combat-ready status (PMC). " OT & E [1] usually lists problems in order of importance.

According to the defense consultant and member of the Breaking Defense Board of Contributors, Lauren Thompson, Raytheon's victory means "billion-dollar" earnings of the company.

"The victory of the DAS will bring billions of dollars to Raytheon over the entire life cycle of the F-35 program, and the replacement of the supplier is part of Lockheed Martin's more serious move to cut costs for the program," she says. "Due to the fact that now most of the technical risk is removed from the program, cost reduction will be the top priority of managers."

Lockheed announced its discontent with Northrop in April at the Singapore Air Show when Steve Smith, Lockheed's director of international trade development, Steve Smith, told Aviation Week: "We have found a supplier that can create a better DAS system at a lower price, which gives us a significant So, right now, we are trying to find ways to enter this production, there will be another company, not Northrop. "

The Raytheon DAS will be integrated into the F-35, starting with the 15th series, which is expected to begin shipping in 2023.
At the same time, Northrop, which supplies about 35% of the F-35, will remain the main supplier, as it makes the fuselage and radar with the active phased antenna array (AESA) of the aircraft.

https://russianpulse.ru/warandpeace...n-class-caps-das-span-northrop-dlya-nbsp-f-35

 

[Vinod DX9]

Su 57 Intercepted F35
**********************

According to information provided by the Chinese network newspaper "East Day", on June 11, 2018 Russian Su-57 fighters, taking off from the Russian military air base "Khmeimim", intercepted the Israeli fighter F-35I Adir, which flew extremely close to the border of Syria from Lebanon . Earlier this was already reported by the portal Avia.pro, but today it was reported that it was the first air interception between the Russian fifth-generation fighter aircraft and F-35 fighters.

As you know, the Israeli fighter F-35 had to retreat and return to the airspace of Israel, but experts have already called the first clash between the fifth-generation aircraft a landmark event.

"Given the fact that the Israeli pilots had to retreat, the functionality of the F-35 is not as great as reported by the Pentagon and the Ministry of Defense of Israel. It is likely that the Israeli F-35 was testing Russian and Syrian air defense systems, but no official statements have been made about this yet , "experts conclude.

It should be clarified that the incident itself occurred around midnight, while no aggressive actions by either Israel or Russia were noted.

Experts do not rule out that in the near future Israel will once again try to seize the opportunity to penetrate Syrian airspace using fifth-generation fighters, which will demonstrate the high capabilities of these aircraft and will test them for the first time in real combat conditions, but modern Russian air defense systems may well knock down F -35, which will be a serious failure for an expensive program to create these fighters.

HOW AUTHENTIC IS THE NEWS?

 

[BON PLAN]

Air Deathmatch: A-10 Warthog vs. F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (Who Wins?)

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...vs-f-35-joint-strike-fighter-who-26258?page=3

 

[BON PLAN]

Fully 74% of Export F-35s Delivered Until 2023 Are Obsolete

(Source: Defense-Aerospace.com; posted July 18, 2018)

By Giovanni de Briganti

Three-quarters of all the F-35 Joint Strike Fighters delivered to foreign customers until 2023 are obsolete and will require major retrofits before they can deliver their promised performance.

An analysis of F-35 contracts awarded to date shows that fully 343 – or 74% -- of the 460 export F-35s that Lockheed is to deliver until end 2024 will be in the current, obsolete Low-Rate Initial Production configuration.

These 343 aircraft are limited both in terms of operational capabilities and of the weapons they can use. They are, and will remain, obsolete because their software is incomplete and because their sensors – designed over 20 years ago – have been overtaken by several generations electronics progress.

...

Fully-capable F-35 only after 2023

Aircraft of the first Full-Rate Production batch (Lot 15) will be the first to benefit from the new package of sensors, electronics and software bringing them to full capability, and which will notably include:

-- a new TR-3 (Technology Refresh 3) computer supplied by Harris Corporation that is key to allowing integration of the new capabilities planned for the Block 4 standard. This will include computing infrastructure for new panoramic cockpit displays, advanced memory systems and navigation technology, according to Brad Truesdell, Harris Corp.’s senior director of aviation systems.

-- Raytheon’s new Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System, which Lockheed announced June 13 would replace Northrop Grumman’s current AN/AAQ-37.

-- a new Advanced Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS) to replace the current system, also made by Lockheed. The company says the current EOTS meets all the contractual specifications, but that the new system – which offers a significant increase in terms of target recognition and detection capability – “would be a further upgrade option purchased at the discretion of the DOD and international F-35 partners and customers,” Lockheed told FlightGlobal at the time.

-- a new Panoramic Cockpit Display System (PCDS) made by Elbit Systems of America. In June 2017, Elbit announced a contract from Lockheed Martin to develop a panoramic cockpit display unit to replace the current one, made by L3 Aviation Products.

These new sensors are crucial for the F-35 to achieve the capabilities it was designed to deliver, but which are still not available today, after 17 years of development. Lockheed says, for example, that the new DAS will have five times the reliability and twice the performance of the current system, despite being 45% cheaper to buy and 50% cheaper to operate.

However, Lot 15 deliveries will only begin in early 2023 and, meanwhile, deliveries will continue with the current electronics and sensors.

The US services will also receive obsolete aircraft, but their problem is less severe because they all operate other kinds of combat aircraft, and because they already have indicated they may use the early aircraft for flight-training or as spare parts banks if the cost of upgrading them to Block 4 standard is too expensive.

This is not an option for export customers, however, as for several – notably Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands -- the F-35 will be the only combat aircraft, while for all others it is the primary strike aircraft.

They will require substantial -- and expensive -- upgrades to bring them up to the latest Block 4 standard, after the new sensors and electronics become available in 2023.

The cost of developing and implementing the Block 4 configuration is as yet unknown, and figures have been quoted of between $3.9 billion and as much as $16.4 billion.

...

Only Block 4 allows most capable weapons – after 2023 (remember how LM respects its old promises...)

But only Block 4 will allow the F-35 to use the most capable air-to-air missile in the Western inventory – MBDA’s Meteor – as well as two new long-range missiles being developed specifically for the F-35: the Joint Strike Missile (made by Kongsberg, Norway) and the SOM-J air-launched cruise missile (Roketsan, Turkey) as well as the Small Diameter Bomb II and other cutting-edge weapons to come.

If 74% of all export F-35s will be obsolete when delivered, some export customers will receive an even higher proportion: Australia will receive 63 of its 72 aircraft (87%) in LRIP configuration, while the proportion of LRIP aircraft will attain 100% for South Korea, 81% for Japan and 77% for Norway. (see Table 1 above).


In other words, pray there’s no shooting war in the next 6-7 years.

Assuming they do decide to retrofit Block 4 improvements, export customers will have to pay for it themselves, on top of acquisition and post-delivery upgrade costs.



http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...-f_35s-delivered-until-2024-are-obsolete.html

 

[BON PLAN]

It is very surprising the deafening silence of some fans of the F35 since a few weeks ...

 

[Vinod DX9]

US senate blocks delivery of F-35s to Turkey.

 

[Armand2REP]

US senate blocks delivery of F-35s to Turkey.

Too late, it won't pass before the 21st handover ceremony by Lockheed unless they get an emergency injunction.

 

[BON PLAN]

Again, again and again....

Thanks To NATO Infighting, the Future of the F-35 Is Shrinking

https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2018/06/thanks-nato-infighting-future-f-35-shrinking/149136/

 

[StealthFlanker]

These 343 aircraft are limited both in terms of operational capabilities and of the weapons they can use. They are, and will remain, obsolete because their software is incomplete and because their sensors – designed over 20 years ago – have been overtaken by several generations electronics progress. In other words, pray there’s no shooting war in the next 6-7 years.

Quite funny because even current sensors on F-35 without upgrade are still far superior to what Rafale have.
- RBE2 vs APG-81, simple no contest, APG-81 has near double the aperture size of RBE2, which will give it significantly superior detection range and accuracy due to higher gain.

- DDM-NG vs DAS, again, simply no contest, it is 6 sensor against 2 sensors using fish eye lens, so each DDM-NG sensors need to cover 3 times the area of DAS sensor, which means they will need 3 times higher resolution just to approach the capability of DAS sensor, nevermind the distortion of fish eye lens and the fact that regardless of resolution, for DDM-NG viewing from a certain direction will always be blocked by aircraft fuselage.

- Current EOTS on F-35 has both IIR and TV channel while IIR channel was removed from OSF-IT on Rafale F3, meaning that Rafale currently loses its onboard IRST capabilities. While, it can still rely on Mica seeker but to be Frank, resolution and sensitivity of missile seeker is laughable compared to dedicated IIR sensor.
- In ECM aspect, F-35 win hand down once again, there is simply no contest. Regardless of what kind of jamming they use, a certain J/S ratio needs to be maintained for it to be effective, with RCS almost 100 times smaller, F-35 can get away with using jammer 100 times weaker than Rafale yet achieve the same effect, furthermore, if they used similar jammer then the burn-through distance against F-35 will be 10 times shorter. In other words, radar that can burn-through Rafale jamming at 300 km will do so against F-35 at 30 km, that an undeniable superiority.

But only Block 4 will allow the F-35 to use the most capable air-to-air missile in the Western inventory – MBDA’s Meteor – as well as two new long-range missiles being developed specifically for the F-35: the Joint Strike Missile(made by Kongsberg, Norway) and the SOM-J air-launched cruise missile (Roketsan, Turkey) as well as the Small Diameter Bomb II and other cutting-edge weapons to come.

So what block will Rafale gain the ability to use SOM-J, JSM, SDB II or AARGM-ER?. Or will Rafale ever have something comparable to SDBII, Spear and AARGM-ER?

-- Raytheon’s new Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System, which Lockheed announced June 13 would replace Northrop Grumman’s current AN/AAQ-37.

-- a new Advanced Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS) to replace the current system, also made by Lockheed. The company says the current EOTS meets all the contractual specifications, but that the new system – which offers a significant increase in terms of target recognition and detection capability – “would be a further upgrade option purchased at the discretion of the DOD and international F-35 partners and customers,” Lockheed told FlightGlobal at the time.

-- a new Panoramic Cockpit Display System (PCDS) made by Elbit Systems of America. In June 2017, Elbit announced a contract from Lockheed Martin to develop a panoramic cockpit display unit to replace the current one, made by L3 Aviation Products.

These new sensors are crucial for the F-35 to achieve the capabilities it was designed to deliver, but which are still not available today, after 17 years of development. Lockheed says, for example, that the new DAS will have five times the reliability and twice the performance of the current system, despite being 45% cheaper to buy and 50% cheaper to operate.

Laughable statement to say the least, these are technology refresh upgrade, meaning the F-35 is constantly being upgraded, F-35 already have EOTS, DAS..etc, these are just better version of them being made so that F-35 will get even better sensors in the future. to complain that current F-35 don't have Advanced DAS and Advanced EOTS is basically like complaining that current Rafale isn't at F4 standard.

 

[BON PLAN]

Quite funny because even current sensors on F-35 without upgrade are still far superior to what Rafale have.
- RBE2 vs APG-81, simple no contest, APG-81 has near double the aperture size of RBE2, which will give it significantly superior detection range and accuracy due to higher gain.

- DDM-NG vs DAS, again, simply no contest, it is 6 sensor against 2 sensors using fish eye lens, so each DDM-NG sensors need to cover 3 times the area of DAS sensor, which means they will need 3 times higher resolution just to approach the capability of DAS sensor, nevermind the distortion of fish eye lens and the fact that regardless of resolution, for DDM-NG viewing from a certain direction will always be blocked by aircraft fuselage.

- Current EOTS on F-35 has both IIR and TV channel while IIR channel was removed from OSF-IT on Rafale F3, meaning that Rafale currently loses its onboard IRST capabilities. While, it can still rely on Mica seeker but to be Frank, resolution and sensitivity of missile seeker is laughable compared to dedicated IIR sensor.
- In ECM aspect, F-35 win hand down once again, there is simply no contest. Regardless of what kind of jamming they use, a certain J/S ratio needs to be maintained for it to be effective, with RCS almost 100 times smaller, F-35 can get away with using jammer 100 times weaker than Rafale yet achieve the same effect, furthermore, if they used similar jammer then the burn-through distance against F-35 will be 10 times shorter. In other words, radar that can burn-through Rafale jamming at 300 km will do so against F-35 at 30 km, that an undeniable superiority.

So what block will Rafale gain the ability to use SOM-J, JSM, SDB II or AARGM-ER?. Or will Rafale ever have something comparable to SDBII, Spear and AARGM-ER?




Laughable statement to say the least, these are technology refresh upgrade, meaning the F-35 is constantly being upgraded, F-35 already have EOTS, DAS..etc, these are just better version of them being made so that F-35 will get even better sensors in the future. to complain that current F-35 don't have Advanced DAS and Advanced EOTS is basically like complaining that current Rafale isn't at F4 standard.

Funny !!!

- Rafale is operationnal, on time, on budget, on spec. It has a strong road map for the future (at the beginning Rafale block were : F1, F2, F3.1, F3.2. Now it's F3.4, F3R is ready and F4 is on track)

- F35 is not ready after 17 years of developpment, it's FOC is year after year pushing back, and when you see the promises kept by LM the last 15 years (ie : no one) , you can be sure F4 will not be ready in 2024, not with the spec and budget anticipated.

YOU JUST HAVE TO OPEN YOUR EYES AND SEE THE FACTS. Not the wet dreams of LM marketing department.
The "technological refresh" argument of a plane even not FOC is .... laughable.

Stop writing things you don't trust in.

 

[Flame Thrower]

Fully 74% of Export F-35s Delivered Until 2023 Are Obsolete

(Source: Defense-Aerospace.com; posted July 18, 2018)

By Giovanni de Briganti

Three-quarters of all the F-35 Joint Strike Fighters delivered to foreign customers until 2023 are obsolete and will require major retrofits before they can deliver their promised performance.

An analysis of F-35 contracts awarded to date shows that fully 343 – or 74% -- of the 460 export F-35s that Lockheed is to deliver until end 2024 will be in the current, obsolete Low-Rate Initial Production configuration.

These 343 aircraft are limited both in terms of operational capabilities and of the weapons they can use. They are, and will remain, obsolete because their software is incomplete and because their sensors – designed over 20 years ago – have been overtaken by several generations electronics progress.

...

Fully-capable F-35 only after 2023

Aircraft of the first Full-Rate Production batch (Lot 15) will be the first to benefit from the new package of sensors, electronics and software bringing them to full capability, and which will notably include:

-- a new TR-3 (Technology Refresh 3) computer supplied by Harris Corporation that is key to allowing integration of the new capabilities planned for the Block 4 standard. This will include computing infrastructure for new panoramic cockpit displays, advanced memory systems and navigation technology, according to Brad Truesdell, Harris Corp.’s senior director of aviation systems.

-- Raytheon’s new Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System, which Lockheed announced June 13 would replace Northrop Grumman’s current AN/AAQ-37.

-- a new Advanced Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS) to replace the current system, also made by Lockheed. The company says the current EOTS meets all the contractual specifications, but that the new system – which offers a significant increase in terms of target recognition and detection capability – “would be a further upgrade option purchased at the discretion of the DOD and international F-35 partners and customers,” Lockheed told FlightGlobal at the time.

-- a new Panoramic Cockpit Display System (PCDS) made by Elbit Systems of America. In June 2017, Elbit announced a contract from Lockheed Martin to develop a panoramic cockpit display unit to replace the current one, made by L3 Aviation Products.

These new sensors are crucial for the F-35 to achieve the capabilities it was designed to deliver, but which are still not available today, after 17 years of development. Lockheed says, for example, that the new DAS will have five times the reliability and twice the performance of the current system, despite being 45% cheaper to buy and 50% cheaper to operate.

However, Lot 15 deliveries will only begin in early 2023 and, meanwhile, deliveries will continue with the current electronics and sensors.

The US services will also receive obsolete aircraft, but their problem is less severe because they all operate other kinds of combat aircraft, and because they already have indicated they may use the early aircraft for flight-training or as spare parts banks if the cost of upgrading them to Block 4 standard is too expensive.

This is not an option for export customers, however, as for several – notably Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands -- the F-35 will be the only combat aircraft, while for all others it is the primary strike aircraft.

They will require substantial -- and expensive -- upgrades to bring them up to the latest Block 4 standard, after the new sensors and electronics become available in 2023.

The cost of developing and implementing the Block 4 configuration is as yet unknown, and figures have been quoted of between $3.9 billion and as much as $16.4 billion.

...

Only Block 4 allows most capable weapons – after 2023 (remember how LM respects its old promises...)

But only Block 4 will allow the F-35 to use the most capable air-to-air missile in the Western inventory – MBDA’s Meteor – as well as two new long-range missiles being developed specifically for the F-35: the Joint Strike Missile (made by Kongsberg, Norway) and the SOM-J air-launched cruise missile (Roketsan, Turkey) as well as the Small Diameter Bomb II and other cutting-edge weapons to come.

If 74% of all export F-35s will be obsolete when delivered, some export customers will receive an even higher proportion: Australia will receive 63 of its 72 aircraft (87%) in LRIP configuration, while the proportion of LRIP aircraft will attain 100% for South Korea, 81% for Japan and 77% for Norway. (see Table 1 above).


In other words, pray there’s no shooting war in the next 6-7 years.

Assuming they do decide to retrofit Block 4 improvements, export customers will have to pay for it themselves, on top of acquisition and post-delivery upgrade costs.



http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...-f_35s-delivered-until-2024-are-obsolete.html

According to this article, 74% of F-35 becomes obsolete by 2024.

After reading the article, I have more questions than answers, maybe you can answer them.

1. To what threats does today's F-35 becomes obsolete and how!?

2. How many of those systems will be operational by 2024!? Does the number advantage help to turn the tide!?

3. What other nato fighter aircraft can survive those threats and make life easy for F-35!?

We all know that there is lots of propaganda going in favor of f-35 and against of it as well. I just don't want some imaginative threat that can easily destroy everything on paper while may not become operational by next 5 yrs or not have all the capabilities by the time of its operation.

I understand that you can see the vulnerabilities of F-35, but I'd like them from threat perspective.

Waiting for your answers.....

 

[BON PLAN]

According to this article, 74% of F-35 becomes obsolete by 2024.

After reading the article, I have more questions than answers, maybe you can answer them.

1. To what threats does today's F-35 becomes obsolete and how!?

2. How many of those systems will be operational by 2024!? Does the number advantage help to turn the tide!?

3. What other nato fighter aircraft can survive those threats and make life easy for F-35!?

We all know that there is lots of propaganda going in favor of f-35 and against of it as well. I just don't want some imaginative threat that can easily destroy everything on paper while may not become operational by next 5 yrs or not have all the capabilities by the time of its operation.

I understand that you can see the vulnerabilities of F-35, but I'd like them from threat perspective.

Waiting for your answers.....

1) It was never studied as a superiority fighter. It's the F22 role. And now that we know it is not agile as a F16, not supercruising, not so stealthy (the IR trace is huge for exemple), in air to air engagement it will be in great danger.
In air to ground role, some of its supposed key system doesn't work so well. It's why EOTS and DAS will be replaced. Add a new computer (to make a real sensor fusion ?) and you understand it's not mature for air to ground.
For all role, add a poor reliability and you will have a survey of how efficient the flying brick is.

In fact the sole nice thing on the plane is, as for quite every US plane, the radar. But Radar and Stealth are not very symbiosis...

2) I don't know. But when you see all the promises made by LM the last 15 years, and most of all if not all, not kept, you can be very worried about that "2024 F4 standart" new promise...

3) F22, with more air to ground weaponry, is probably the best answer. F22 is a jewel. F35 is disappointing.
And every one on this forum know that I'm a Rafale fan. Rafale is equipped of an electronic suite able to cope with S300 (proved since 10 years) and S400. I think it's an "affordable" answer.

 

[Flame Thrower]

1) It was never studied as a superiority fighter. It's the F22 role. And now that we know it is not agile as a F16, not supercruising, not so stealthy (the IR trace is huge for exemple), in air to air engagement it will be in great danger.
In air to ground role, some of its supposed key system doesn't work so well. It's why EOTS and DAS will be replaced. Add a new computer (to make a real sensor fusion ?) and you understand it's not mature for air to ground.
For all role, add a poor reliability and you will have a survey of how efficient the flying brick is.

In fact the sole nice thing on the plane is, as for quite every US plane, the radar. But Radar and Stealth are not very symbiosis...

2) I don't know. But when you see all the promises made by LM the last 15 years, and most of all if not all, not kept, you can be very worried about that "2024 F4 standart" new promise...

3) F22, with more air to ground weaponry, is probably the best answer. F22 is a jewel. F35 is disappointing.
And every one on this forum know that I'm a Rafale fan. Rafale is equipped of an electronic suite able to cope with S300 (proved since 10 years) and S400. I think it's an "affordable" answer.

In simple words, I am very disappointed with your answer.

1. I didn't ask for weakness of F-35, I asked for what weapon systems can destroy F-35. For eg. Don't say the Flankers can defeat F-35 in dog fight. Explain how F-35 will be forced into it!?

2. I agree that LM failed to deliver. But I asked about no. of threat (for F-35) systems operate by 2024. And does superior numbers of F-35 tackle them sucessfully.

3. Did rafale cope with S-300 in IADS environment!? Would you share rafale adventures in S-300!?

A request. Forget what LM promised and what it had delivered. Focus on what can take on F-35 in its current shape and does numerical superiority help!?

Note: Neither this article nor you could point out a conviencing answer that F-35 is obsolete against any weapon system(at least one).