F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

blackjack

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But it won't show you the different between 1 F-35 or MQ-25 or F-18 and 2 decoys or 2 TLAM ...etc. And the RCS magnitude change also depend on aspect as well, there isn't much valuable information you can guess even if it show you how RCS change
hmmmmm lets agree to disagree.

I don't think you understand the point, I'm not talking about the propaganda like Ghost of Kyiv. I'm saying that if Container OTH was effective in tracking and IFF fighter , then you won't see plenty video of Ukraine Mi-24/Su-25 doing CAS or Mig-29 doing SEAD with HARM. Because "they will be tracked since take off", their airfield will be found and destroyed, their fly path will be intercepted"
not joking but out of amusement the moment you started talking about mig-29s still flying in the air and all, a day later i see tweets of photos showing a destroyed ukrainian mig-29 so lets not start jinxing anything yet. OTH radars do track but we still get reports of ukrainian aircrafts getting shot down. ukrainian military aircrafts could be stationed in civilian airports or there are barely as much of them in the air to pose any significant threat to the russian arm forces(HIMARS is barely used as well and they wasted months on end trying to take a soviet bridge down in kherson until the russians blew up themselves than they were targetting russians themselves) or for all we know they might want to win this war but keep any ukrainian mig-29s still intact to capture(soviet equipment still has value) and use them for their armed forces than being destroyed, There are more tweets of ukrainian aircrafts and helicopters getting destroyed and I think I have never seen any user at the russo-ukrainian war thread bragging showing videos or pics of russian soldiers getting bombed or winning air to air fights(I think a shahad drone kicked the shit out of a ukrainian mig before) but of course you can challenge that if you like if your even interested in posting information in the russian-ukraine war thread since you felt the need to bring it up here?
 

StealthFlanker

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hmmmmm lets agree to disagree.
OTH are massively big (kilometer long array) for a good reason: to reduce their beam width aka resolution cell. If target discrimination could be so simple by relying on rcs magnitude, then you wouldn't need them to be as big


not joking but out of amusement the moment you started talking about mig-29s still flying in the air and all, a day later i see tweets of photos showing a destroyed ukrainian mig-29 so lets not start jinxing anything yet. OTH radars do track but we still get reports of ukrainian aircrafts getting shot down. ukrainian military aircrafts could be stationed in civilian airports or there are barely as much of them in the air to pose any significant threat to the russian arm forces(HIMARS is barely used as well and they wasted months on end trying to take a soviet bridge down in kherson until the russians blew up themselves than they were targetting russians themselves) or for all we know they might want to win this war but keep any ukrainian mig-29s still intact to capture(soviet equipment still has value) and use them for their armed forces than being destroyed, There are more tweets of ukrainian aircrafts and helicopters getting destroyed and I think I have never seen any user at the russo-ukrainian war thread bragging showing videos or pics of russian soldiers getting bombed or winning air to air fights(I think a shahad drone kicked the shit out of a ukrainian mig before) but of course you can challenge that if you like if your even interested in posting information in the russian-ukraine war thread since you felt the need to bring it up here?
I don't think you understand the point.
Russian was not hesitant to attack Ukraine infrastructure at all. Anything from supermarket, to power station , substation, airport are all valid targets and they were all attacked. If OTH was a plausible method to track and monitoring the airspace of Ukraine. Then you wouldn't see any Ukraine Su-25, Mig-29, Mi-24 took off and do things like CAS and SEAD at all. Because "Ukraine airplane will be tracked the moment they took off and their flight path will be intercepted by the much more numerical and superior Russian air force" But the fact remain that there are still plently video of Ukraine airplane launching HARMs or rocket. That mean they can take off unmolested, and can get close enough to their adversary unmolested. Even the incident you stated earlier about an Ukraine Mig-29 chasing several shahed drones and accidently get destroyed due to the fragmentations also indicate that fact. They could take off and flying around pretty freely in Ukraine airspace eventhough Container radar coverage supposed to cover the whole Ukraine land area. Because again, OTH radar are very bad in target discrimination as multiple targets in its massive resolution cell will just get merged together.
And frankly, I don't see how the barely air worthy mig-29 and Mi-24 of Ukraine could be useful to Russian, especially not to the extend that they would want to scarified their own force
 

blackjack

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I don't think you understand the point.
Russian was not hesitant to attack Ukraine infrastructure at all. Anything from supermarket, to power station , substation, airport are all valid targets and they were all attacked. If OTH was a plausible method to track and monitoring the airspace of Ukraine. Then you wouldn't see any Ukraine Su-25, Mig-29, Mi-24 took off and do things like CAS and SEAD at all. Because "Ukraine airplane will be tracked the moment they took off and their flight path will be intercepted by the much more numerical and superior Russian air force" But the fact remain that there are still plently video of Ukraine airplane launching HARMs or rocket. That mean they can take off unmolested, and can get close enough to their adversary unmolested. Even the incident you stated earlier about an Ukraine Mig-29 chasing several shahed drones and accidently get destroyed due to the fragmentations also indicate that fact. They could take off and flying around pretty freely in Ukraine airspace eventhough Container radar coverage supposed to cover the whole Ukraine land area. Because again, OTH radar are very bad in target discrimination as multiple targets in its massive resolution cell will just get merged together.
And frankly, I don't see how the barely air worthy mig-29 and Mi-24 of Ukraine could be useful to Russian, especially not to the extend that they would want to scarified their own force
what part of ukrainians not using their airforce alot do you not understand to pose any threats to their ground forces or even their air force? You are making it sound like HIMARS and their airforce pushed the Russians back all the way to Crimea. Why should the Russians go blow millions of dollars with cruise missiles when they can just go blow 1000s of dollars with MANPADs on aircrafts instead or if there are some aircrafts left over after the war to take them to their inventory instead? The Russians do have some turkish, german, Japanese armored vehicles from the Ukrainians I am sure they would want to have Ukrainian aircrafts as well. If I am stealing someone's Ferrari, I would not go throw a grenade at it I would rather drive it back to my country and go sell it for more money than I would pay for throwing a grenade at it and having no Ferrari. Energy facilities are higher target priorities than aircrafts they can shoot down anytime which has been done plenty of times even when we have continued these back-and-forth responses. Your overthinking(that might be an understatement since some of your answers can look like blogs) it my dude. I bet you will say the same shit with HIMARs of why havent they destroyed them yet and my answer will be the same because they target ukrainian civilians or some bridge that wont collapse instead of any russian soldiers and instead of kalibr striking their locations it would be cheaper to use lancets when within range. OTH radars help give location, elevation, speed and direction of where aircrafts are heading. I still have no idea if they are even using long range air defense systems in this war either since there are more reports of them using tors and pantsirs along with MANPADS instead and they have been shooting ukrainian aircrafts alot. Remember Russia is not like Ukraine blowing 1.2 million dollar SAMs on 30,000 dollar iranian drones.
 

StealthFlanker

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what part of ukrainians not using their airforce alot do you not understand to pose any threats to their ground forces or even their air force? You are making it sound like HIMARS and their airforce pushed the Russians back all the way to Crimea.
And what make you think that Ukraine airforce and Himars doesn't pose a threat to Russian force?
Just because they are not all back to Crimea yet doesn't mean they aren't threatened
This is how much territory Russian occupied on 24/3/2022
March 24.PNG

This is how much territory Russian occupied on 7/1/2023
current.PNG


Keep in mind that Donbass and Crimea region were annexed in 2014 which is ways before this war started. So Russian force indeed get pushed back by more than 70% territory that they initially gained.

FlyIk2dX0AI_Nlm.jpg


Why should the Russians go blow millions of dollars with cruise missiles when they can just go blow 1000s of dollars with MANPADs on aircrafts instead or if there are some aircrafts left over after the war to take them to their inventory instead? The Russians do have some turkish, german, Japanese armored vehicles from the Ukrainians I am sure they would want to have Ukrainian aircrafts as well. If I am stealing someone's Ferrari, I would not go throw a grenade at it I would rather drive it back to my country and go sell it for more money than I would pay for throwing a grenade at it and having no Ferrari. Energy facilities are higher target priorities than aircrafts they can shoot down anytime which has been done plenty of times even when we have continued these back-and-forth responses. Your overthinking(that might be an understatement since some of your answers can look like blogs) it my dude. I bet you will say the same shit with HIMARs of why havent they destroyed them yet and my answer will be the same because they target ukrainian civilians or some bridge that wont collapse instead of any russian soldiers and instead of kalibr striking their locations it would be cheaper to use lancets when within range. OTH radars help give location, elevation, speed and direction of where aircrafts are heading. I still have no idea if they are even using long range air defense systems in this war either since there are more reports of them using tors and pantsirs along with MANPADS instead and they have been shooting ukrainian aircrafts alot. Remember Russia is not like Ukraine blowing 1.2 million dollar SAMs on 30,000 dollar iranian drones.
Well, the problem is that MANPADS can't stop enemy from doing CAS and SEAD. Because MANPADS has very short range, by the time you can use it, the enemy already unload rocket, bombs, missile on your troops. And I wouldn't say the barely air worthy mig-29, Mi-24, su-25 of Ukraine are like Ferrari to Russian force, they are more like Toyota pick up truck that frequently doing harassments on their troops.
Also the main reason that you don't see long range air defense being used alot is because Ukraine have been flying at low altitude, and due to radar horizon limit, you can't detect and shotdown anything at low altitude from long range. It is simple as that.
 

Wisemarko

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Canada strikes deal to buy F-35s from Lockheed

WASHINGTON — Canada on Monday announced plans to buy 88 F-35A Joint Strike Fighters for CA$19 billion (U.S. $14 billion).
($88 million each)

Defence Minister Anita Anand said in an online briefing the Royal Canadian Air Force would receive its first four Lockheed Martin-made F-35s in 2026, with the next six in 2027 and another six in 2028. The remainder would come in subsequent years.
 

Blademaster

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Canada strikes deal to buy F-35s from Lockheed

WASHINGTON — Canada on Monday announced plans to buy 88 F-35A Joint Strike Fighters for CA$19 billion (U.S. $14 billion).
($88 million each)

Defence Minister Anita Anand said in an online briefing the Royal Canadian Air Force would receive its first four Lockheed Martin-made F-35s in 2026, with the next six in 2027 and another six in 2028. The remainder would come in subsequent years.
Another sucker for a hangar queen.
 

Gyyan

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Another sucker for a hangar queen.
Bruh that's freaking f35 all right....there aren't even 3 platforms available in the whole wide world that could duke it out with it.
The maintenance is a issue for sure but that's one of the most advanced platform on the planet and the problems caused are mainly due to price cutting measures that are being taken to make it affordable.
Even with all the problems if it is announced that india is buying even a squadron we all will be going gaga over it.
 

blackjack

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And what make you think that Ukraine airforce and Himars doesn't pose a threat to Russian force?
Just because they are not all back to Crimea yet doesn't mean they aren't threatened
This is how much territory Russian occupied on 24/3/2022
March 24.PNG

This is how much territory Russian occupied on 7/1/2023
current.PNG


Keep in mind that Donbass and Crimea region were annexed in 2014 which is ways before this war started. So Russian force indeed get pushed back by more than 70% territory that they initially gained.

FlyIk2dX0AI_Nlm.jpg


Well, the problem is that MANPADS can't stop enemy from doing CAS and SEAD. Because MANPADS has very short range, by the time you can use it, the enemy already unload rocket, bombs, missile on your troops. And I wouldn't say the barely air worthy mig-29, Mi-24, su-25 of Ukraine are like Ferrari to Russian force, they are more like Toyota pick up truck that frequently doing harassments on their troops.
Also the main reason that you don't see long range air defense being used alot is because Ukraine have been flying at low altitude, and due to radar horizon limit, you can't detect and shotdown anything at low altitude from long range. It is simple as that.
For the love of God, you either go follow a conflict completely or dont do it all. Those advances are from equipment, manpower, artillery etc. you state MANPADS dont stop enemies from conducting SEAD yet I am surprised you could keep a straight face saying that when mercenaries have shot down Ukrainian aircrafts many times than I have seen users at the russo-ukraine war thread post any news of russians getting bombed or SEADed, or houthi rebels doing the same shit to saudis and getting creative using air to air missiles from the ground. I dont even know if your aware right now that Bakhmut is about to fall to lead to many offensives to ukraine turning the map completely red again assuming you even follow this conflict at all?

Unless you start proving to me that there are tweets that Ukrainians showcase videos or pictures of destroyed Russian equipment on a massive scale of the war from their aviation strikes than my point will still stand, now if you will excuse me, you can go start watching my posts from the last 24 hours at the russian Ukraine war thread and show me where Ukrainian aviation is halting the Russians from taking bakhmut. Masterchief is our designated pro-ukraine poster(you could be as well) that keeps us updated with destroyed Russian equipment and I am not exaggerating when I say I have not seen any posts from him so far showing Ukrainian SEAD Russian equipment destruction results because this entire war is artillery and drone strikes.
 

Fonck83

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There are a lot of "ifs" in this analysis, but the US will have to think about an in-depth reform of its project management. It is totally out of kilter. We have to stop entrusting this to soldiers, we have to entrust this to engineers who will be able to sort out the lies, half-truths or truths of the industriel management. To realise two years ago that the engine had to be upgraded was already a mistake, but to realise now that the TR3 without the new engine is worse than the TR2 is profound incompetence.

If I understand correctly, the JPO has stocks in TR2 (30) to mount two months of production. They did not anticipate that they would need more. If these are the famous "long lead items" ordered at least one year in advance, this could cause major production problems.

If the rumours are coming out just after the first flight of the TR3 it's not a good sign. I suspect that the TR3 is more power hungry than the TR2 and therefore worse from that point of view until the AETP is available. If this is true it is a disaster because it was hardly anticipated.

Flight Testing Paces Delivery Of Next F-35 Upgrade
Steve Trimble January 18, 2023

F-35A cockpit

Credit: U.S. Air Force

A critical avionics refresh for the Lockheed Martin F-35 had been due to enter production later this year, but program officials now offer no firm timeline as a yearlong series of flight tests begins.
The Technology Refresh-3 (TR-3) program originally was expected to deliver a new integrated core processor, display system and aircraft memory unit starting with the first Lot 15 aircraft.
Two years ago, program officials acknowledged in congressional testimony that they were hedging for a slight delay for TR-3 deliveries, with the acquisition of about 30 TR-2 sets of hardware to avoid a break in the production line.
But program officials now say they are waiting for flight test data before TR-3 is approved to enter production on Lot 15 aircraft.
“The timing of deliveries will depend on the results of the flight testing,” a Joint Program Office (JPO) spokesman says.
The U.S. Air Force announced on Jan. 11 that the first F-35A test aircraft equipped with the avionics had entered flight testing, which service officials said was expected to continue through 2023.
But a delay in the sequencing of F-35 deliveries may help keep the TR-3 program on track for delivery in Lot 15.
Lockheed normally delivers aircraft in each yearly production lot according to their assigned order year. As the 15th lot of annual production, Lot 15 aircraft would normally begin deliveries at the start of calendar year 2023.
But Lockheed still has 72 aircraft from Lot 14 and one aircraft from Lot 13 in a production backlog due to supply chain disruption caused by the COVID-19 pandemic and other issues.
At current production rates of nearly six F-35s per month, it could take Lockheed until at least midyear to clear the backlog of Lot 13 and 14 jets. The company’s aircraft deliveries are typically back-loaded to the second half of the year, so that could extend the start of Lot 15 deliveries into late summer or the fall. Including the 30 TR-2 kits reserved in case of any further delays revealed by TR-3 flight testing, the start of deliveries of F-35s upgraded to the Lot 15 standard could slip to the fourth quarter.
Accordingly, keeping the TR-3 program on track for Lot 15 jets may depend on a relatively smooth flight testing program. But problems with developing TR-3 hardware and software caused a $330 million cost overrun in 2021, which prompted the JPO to halt Block 4 development in order to focus on resolving those issues. L3Harris delivered the improved integrated core processor for flight testing last July, but the Air Force did not start flight testing until several months later.
If TR-3 is not available on time, the JPO has informed the Government Accountability Office that it has options to keep F-35 production on track. If hardware testing is complete, the JPO can install TR-3 avionics on Lot 15 F-35s without the latest software, which could be retrofitted later. If the hardware also is delayed, Lot 15 jets can be delivered with TR-2 hardware and software until retrofits are available. But any such delay also creates timing issues for other Block 4 upgrades expected in Lots 16 and 17, including an electronic warfare upgrade coming in 2024 and a new radar arriving in 2025.
 

Wisemarko

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Fonck83

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On the raython official Web site :

“Look at how competitive the battlespace is. They want to be able to see farther, to shoot farther and more accurately. And they need the mission equipment to accomplish that,” said Henry Wu, an associate director in the Power & Controls business at Collins Aerospace. “The problem is, the cooling system they have today can’t keep up. If you buy the new radars and jammers without the cooling, you couldn’t really put them on the jet because they wouldn’t work.
 

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