Exciting Times for Chinese Aircraft Engines!

[SexyChineseLady]

It seems research had been done on ACE since 2000.

Beihang U. (formerly Beijing University of Aeronautics and Astronautics) is one of China's premier aerospace research institutes.

Highly likely there is a project going -- especially in connection with the Gen 6 program.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/293320709_Performance_analysis_tool_for_turbine_based_combined_cycle_engine_concept

 

[SexyChineseLady]

WS-20 on the Y-20B!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The WS-10B on J-10C!

This is the WS-10B TVC fitted on a J-10B:

 

[Angel of War]

The core of WS 10 is imported from russia i believe ?

 

[ym888]

The core of WS 10 is imported from russia i believe ?

Made in China.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

just see this shit and you will come to know what is going on

Oh and BTW-

Range Rover is owned by TATA

 

[Angel of War]

Made in China.

Source ?

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Oh and BTW-

Range Rover is owned by TATA

Source ?

in general terms, all nations advance, India will eventually get a jet engine industry, however more nations are involved in the jet engine manufacture.
see

The major problem is finance an economical and efficient jet engines, thus risk partners and suppliers are used by the main jet engine manufacturers, this is the fact the research and development is very expensive and the market is small.

Rolls Royce for example for the trent engines used on B-787 or A-350 has many suppliers from many countries

 

[smartnet]

The core of WS 10 is imported from russia i believe ?

The WS-10 is derived from the CFM56 with the experience gained from the Woshan WS-6 turbofan project, which was abandoned at the start of the 1980s. The WS-10 project was reportedly started by Deng Xiaoping in 1986 to produce an engine comparable to the Saturn AL-31. The work was given to the Shenyang Aeroengine Research Institute (606 Institute) of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC). The WS-10 may have been based on the core of the CFM-56II (itself based on the General Electric F101); China purchased two CFM-56IIs in the 1980s before the arms embargo. Initial production models suffered quality issues from the early direct use of AL-31 control systems. Furthermore, Salyut refused to sell source code, forcing China to spend nearly 20 years developing its own code independently.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

The WS-10 is derived from the CFM56 with the experience gained from the Woshan WS-6 turbofan project, which was abandoned at the start of the 1980s. The WS-10 project was reportedly started by Deng Xiaoping in 1986 to produce an engine comparable to the Saturn AL-31. The work was given to the Shenyang Aeroengine Research Institute (606 Institute) of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC). The WS-10 may have been based on the core of the CFM-56II (itself based on the General Electric F101); China purchased two CFM-56IIs in the 1980s before the arms embargo. Initial production models suffered quality issues from the early direct use of AL-31 control systems. Furthermore, Salyut refused to sell source code, forcing China to spend nearly 20 years developing its own code independently.

that is internet forumlore

 

[MiG-29SMT]

The WS-10 is derived from the CFM56 with the experience gained from the Woshan WS-6 turbofan project, which was abandoned at the start of the 1980s. The WS-10 project was reportedly started by Deng Xiaoping in 1986 to produce an engine comparable to the Saturn AL-31. The work was given to the Shenyang Aeroengine Research Institute (606 Institute) of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC). The WS-10 may have been based on the core of the CFM-56II (itself based on the General Electric F101); China purchased two CFM-56IIs in the 1980s before the arms embargo. Initial production models suffered quality issues from the early direct use of AL-31 control systems. Furthermore, Salyut refused to sell source code, forcing China to spend nearly 20 years developing its own code independently.

CFM56 and F101 are not the same engine basically the forum Chinese lore claims it was an easy task, which is pure crap, a CFM56 main thrust comes from the fan, while the F101 main thrust is the turbine and afterburner having a higher RPM.
The Chinese have copied in great part AL-31, the main engine they used thus F101 which Pakistan never got. basically is pure crap, the engine is like many Chinese things a Frankenstein of Engine because since the Chinese are thieves, no one ones to share some technology in jet engines with them, and while they advanced, and will continue advancing, the rest of the world does it too, their engines will power their J-20 or J-10 but already Type 30 and newer variants of F-135 show they still behind and the proof is F-35 and Checkmate are single engined

 

[WatcherOfWatchers]

CFM56 and F101 are not the same engine basically the forum Chinese lore claims it was an easy task, which is pure crap, a CFM56 main thrust comes from the fan, while the F101 main thrust is the turbine and afterburner having a higher RPM.
The Chinese have copied in great part AL-31, the main engine they used thus F101 which Pakistan never got. basically is pure crap, the engine is like many Chinese things a Frankenstein of Engine because since the Chinese are thieves, no one ones to share some technology in jet engines with them, and while they advanced, and will continue advancing, the rest of the world does it too, their engines will power their J-20 or J-10 but already Type 30 and newer variants of F-135 show they still behind and the proof is F-35 and Checkmate are single engined

Well, the common sense is CFM56 is a derivative of F101. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFM_International_CFM56

 

[no smoking]

CFM56 and F101 are not the same engine basically the forum Chinese lore claims it was an easy task, which is pure crap, a CFM56 main thrust comes from the fan, while the F101 main thrust is the turbine and afterburner having a higher RPM.

Who said CFM56 and F101 are the same engine?
It was clearly said from beginning, both engines shared the same CORE design.
And no Chinese ever claimed it is an easy task. On the contrast, they believed it is a great achievement because it was not easy considering Chinese industrial bases at the time (basically equal Soviet 60s).

the Chinese are thieves, no one ones to share some technology in jet engines with them

Does anyone wants to share jet engine technology with Mexican or India?

and while they advanced, and will continue advancing, the rest of the world does it too, their engines will power their J-20 or J-10 but already Type 30 and newer variants of F-135 show they still behind and the proof is F-35 and Checkmate are single engined

Let's wait and see.

 

[no smoking]

Source ?

How Russia can export a Western style core (CFM56 specially)?

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Well, the common sense is CFM56 is a derivative of F101. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFM_International_CFM56

that is not common sense, that is a wikipedia article that any can edit (specially Chinese forum fans) an engine for an Airliner is different to a military jet since on an airliner the fan size has grown because the main thrust comes from the air mass, a fighter engine has to be small, thin, so its main thrust comes from temperature, means a very hot engine, totally different concepts

On the Trent fuel consumption is avoided by pulling very big masses of air

On F135 is very hot air and low bypass what generates thrust, so you need very high temperatures because the masses of air are reduced due to smaller cross section.

How does a turbofan engine work? The incoming air is captured by the engine inlet. Some of the incoming air passes through the fan and continues on into the core compressor and then the burner, where it is mixed with fuel and combustion occurs. The hot exhaust passes through the core and fan turbines and then out the nozzle, as in a basic turbojet. The rest of the incoming air passes through the fan and bypasses, or goes around the engine, just like the air through a propeller. The air that goes through the fan has a velocity that is slightly increased from free stream. So a turbofan gets some of its thrust from the core and some of its thrust from the fan. The ratio of the air that goes around the engine to the air that goes through the core is called the bypass ratio.

Because the fuel flow rate for the core is changed only a small amount by the addition of the fan, a turbofan generates more thrust for nearly the same amount of fuel used by the core. This means that a turbofan is very fuel efficient. In fact, high bypass ratio turbofans are nearly as fuel efficient as turboprops. Because the fan is enclosed by the inlet and is composed of many blades, it can operate efficiently at higher speeds than a simple propeller.

Turbofan Engine

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Who said CFM56 and F101 are the same engine?
It was clearly said from beginning, both engines shared the same CORE design.
And no Chinese ever claimed it is an easy task. On the contrast, they believed it is a great achievement because it was not easy considering Chinese industrial bases at the time (basically equal Soviet 60s).



Does anyone wants to share jet engine technology with Mexican or India?



Let's wait and see.

you are yes smoking because if you look at Y-20 the old engines are thinner than the WS-20

That is because a larger fan makes a less thirsty engine, wanna see?

A 1960s airliner had thinner engines do you know why?

A modern jet engine for airliners will reduce fuel consumption by a bigger air mass suction and thrust, thus the engines are fatter.

No one yes smoking will use an airline engine for a fighter because a big engine makes a big aircraft, you want thin fighters for streamlined aircraft, thus when you make a smaller turbofan cross section you increase RPMs and you need higher temperature to get more thrust.

yes smoking, totally different concepts

You can see it clearly on a new engine on Il-76, see PD-14 has a wider engine face, fatter engine but more economical, a fan is basically a ducted propeller.

same is this B-747

GE9X is a more powerful engine thanks to a higher by pass


The fan case is one of the biggest structures of an aircraft. The increasing trend toward high-bypass-ratio turbofan engines has resulted in larger diameter fan cases. For example, the former GE 5:3 bypass ratio fan cases CF6-80C2 accounted for about 20% of the total engine weight, whereas the more recent 9:5 bypass ratio GEnx-1B represents a weight ratio of 33%

High Bypass-Ratio Turbofan Engine - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

Over recent years, aero engine manufacturers and institutes have moved their focal point of research from high to ultra-high bypass ratio (UHBR) engine designs. The reason is the endeavour to reduce specific fuel consumption (SFC), which is one driver for lowering direct operating costs (DOC) of an aircraft. To improve the SFC via the propulsive efficiency, the jet velocity has to be reduced, and thus the bypass ratio and fan diameter need to be increased. This allows for noise reduction due to reduced jet velocities and fan tip speeds, if the fan’s speed is reduced in rpm.

Evaluation of ultra-high bypass ratio engines for an over-wing aircraft configuration

Today, main hub airports are already at their capacity limit and hence, smaller airports have become more interesting for providing point-to-point connections. Unfortunately, the use of regional airports induces an increased environmental footprint for the population living around it. In an...

journal.gpps.global

 

[MiG-29SMT]

How Russia can export a Western style core (CFM56 specially)?

yes smoking you forget military fighter aircraft need smaller thinner jet engines than airliners which means

However, considering that the melting point of current superalloys is around 1,850°C, the challenge becomes finding materials that will withstand hotter temperatures; and as such, the search for new materials has come to the fore. The advent of lean-burn engines, with temperature potentials as high as 2,100°C, has helped drive demand for these new materials. To achieve higher thrust, higher operating temperatures must be realized and for higher efficiency, engines must be made significantly lighter without loss of thrust. In either case, new families of materials need to be developed that have higher melting points and greater intrinsic strength.

What are some recent advances in high-temperature materials for jet engines? - PreScouter - Custom Intelligence from a Global Network of Experts

What new materials are in development for jet engines that can provide higher melting points and greater intrinsic strength?

www.prescouter.com

It is very unlikely the USA will pass that technology but Russia has sold plenty of Al-31ss which are more powerful than the Pakistani F100s used in their F-16s

remember yes smoking military engines for fighters use lower bypass

 

[SexyChineseLady]

LOL. If you wait for someone to share engine technology you will be waiting for a very long time.

Good luck to you waiting for foreign help.

For China, It takes a national effort like for HSR and the carrier programs and engines are outlined in 5-Year Plans:

China outlines push to develop domestic engine for C919 jet in five-year plan

China will push forward with the development of CJ1000, a turbofan jet engine designed to power the homemade C919 narrowbody aircraft, the government said on Friday in its development plan for the 2021-2025 period.

mobile.reuters.com

China outlines push to develop domestic engine for C919 jet in five-year plan

China will push forward with the development of CJ1000, a turbofan jet engine designed to power the homemade C919 narrowbody aircraft, the government said on Friday in its development plan for the 2021-2025 period.

We will see a flight test of the CJ1000 civilian engine soon

This is the difference between an industry and a project. When you have a project like Kaveri or imaginary Mexican fighter engine you can wait for foreign help.

No one can help you set up an industry that has many engines being built or in development -- WS-9, WS-11, WS-17, WS-13, WS-19, WS-10, WS-15, WS-20, CJ1000, etc.

(Seriously, good luck to India's Kaveri waiting for help from all her friends -- US, UK, France and Russia. With so many friends sharing engine technology, it must be easy according to the Mexican. Indians themselves must know this is not true.)

 

[Angel of War]

LOL. If you wait for someone to share engine technology you will be waiting for a very long time.

Good luck to you waiting for foreign help.

For China, It takes a national effort like for HSR and the carrier programs and engines are outlined in 5-Year Plans:

China outlines push to develop domestic engine for C919 jet in five-year plan

China will push forward with the development of CJ1000, a turbofan jet engine designed to power the homemade C919 narrowbody aircraft, the government said on Friday in its development plan for the 2021-2025 period.

mobile.reuters.com

China outlines push to develop domestic engine for C919 jet in five-year plan

China will push forward with the development of CJ1000, a turbofan jet engine designed to power the homemade C919 narrowbody aircraft, the government said on Friday in its development plan for the 2021-2025 period.

We will see a flight test of the CJ1000 civilian engine soon

This is the difference between an industry and a project. When you have a project like Kaveri or imaginary Mexican fighter engine you can wait for foreign help.

No one can help you set up an industry that has many engines being built or in development -- WS-9, WS-11, WS-17, WS-13, WS-19, WS-10, WS-15, WS-20, CJ1000, etc.

(Good luck to India's Kaveri waiting for help from all her friends -- US, UK, France and Russia. With so many friends sharing engine technology, it must be easy according to the Mexican. Indians themselves know this is not true.)

we all know the engine core comes from russia . Probably derived from AL41F

 

[MiG-29SMT]

LOL. If you wait for someone to share engine technology you will be waiting for a very long time.

Good luck to you waiting for foreign help.

For China, It takes a national effort like for HSR and the carrier programs and engines are outlined in 5-Year Plans:

China outlines push to develop domestic engine for C919 jet in five-year plan

China will push forward with the development of CJ1000, a turbofan jet engine designed to power the homemade C919 narrowbody aircraft, the government said on Friday in its development plan for the 2021-2025 period.

mobile.reuters.com

China outlines push to develop domestic engine for C919 jet in five-year plan

China will push forward with the development of CJ1000, a turbofan jet engine designed to power the homemade C919 narrowbody aircraft, the government said on Friday in its development plan for the 2021-2025 period.

We will see a flight test of the CJ1000 civilian engine soon

This is the difference between an industry and a project. When you have a project like Kaveri or imaginary Mexican fighter engine you can wait for foreign help.

No one can help you set up an industry that has many engines being built or in development -- WS-9, WS-11, WS-17, WS-13, WS-19, WS-10, WS-15, WS-20, CJ1000, etc.

(Good luck to India's Kaveri waiting for help from all her friends -- US, UK, France and Russia. With so many friends sharing engine technology, it must be easy according to the Mexican. Indians themselves know this is not true.)

Who buys Chinese aircraft? who will fly on Chinese airliners?

Only the Chinese government buys Chinese airliners, aerospace is business and as such if no western or Russian aerospace companies make money China has 0 chances selling airliners to the west.

Trent engine by Rolls Royce has parts made by ITP from Spain (I have Vasque ancestry)
Volvo Aerospace from Sweden, Mitsubishi, Sumitomo, Kawasaki from Japan. ATK, Hamilton Sundtrand from USA, Hispano Suiza *french, swiss and Spanish company, basically Europe.

So let us see how many Chinese jets fly with western firms.

But only 5 nations are involve in jet engine

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https://www.refiningandpetrochemica...blishes-dubai-presence-expands-mena-footprint