Exciting Times for Chinese Aircraft Engines!

[SexyChineseLady]

Yeah no straight answer got it


Do you have any data on fuel consumption?
Bcuz more power means more fuel burn which equals less range.

There is something called a throttle Fuel usage would depend on the pilot and guidelines set by the PLAAF, I would guess.

 

[Alamarathan]

There is something called a throttle Fuel usage would depend on the pilot and guidelines set by the PLAAF, I would guess.

Dude,youre funny as fuq,
I didn't ask about whether you're driver riding a clutch,just asked whether min/max consumption has increased.


I don't have good feeling about this, you get defensive when i ask about basic stats.

Lemme drop assumption based on your input,Since you said there is no modification wrt airframe and the throttle response, i think they sacrificed range/airframe life for sheer power.


extra power to manage the new electronics(probably new radar or jammer)

how close am i

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Dude,youre funny as fuq,
I didn't ask about whether you're driver riding a clutch,just asked whether min/max consumption has increased.


I don't have good feeling about this, you get defensive when i ask about basic stats.

Lemme drop assumption based on your input,Since you said there is no modification wrt airframe and the throttle response, i think they sacrificed range/airframe life for sheer power.


extra power to manage the new electronics(probably new radar or jammer)

how close am i

Your guess is good as mine. But they would sacrifice range only if they go max at all times.

Just because you have an engine in car that allows you to go 150mph doesn't means you have to go 150mph. You can always drive it at 65mph which the legal limit and save gas and go 150mph only when someone challenge you to a drag race (only when there's no police around )

Airframe wear has very little to do with thrust. The biggest wear is the number of hours you fly the aircraft.

 

[Alamarathan]

Your guess is good as mine. But they would sacrifice range only if they go max at all times.

Ah..don't play coy with me,i know that you know

I think i understand the strategy here,plaaf decided to upgrade j10's to be as a capable interceptor.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Ah..don't play coy with me,i know that you know

I think i understand the strategy here,plaaf decided to upgrade j10's to be as a capable interceptor.

Upgrading an aircraft's engine usually don't change its role.

J-10, J-11 and J-20 have all upgraded their engines from AL-31 to WS-10 and then from earlier WS-10 versions to later ones. You can't change everyone's role

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Re-engining the J-10AS:

 

[DumbPilot]

And not just now, China was banned from US satellites, GPS, space stations, super computers, nuclear energy, aero engines, etc. years ago. Today China has done pretty well in each of those sectors. I highly doubt it will be any different with silicon

90% of this was done by buying Soviet stuff. lol

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Re-engining of older aircraft for WS-10 shows two things beyond the maturity of the Taihang powerplant but the design philosophy of modern Chinese aircraft regarding engines:

1) interim engines are included in planning of production runs so that new airframes could be developed and produced on time -- AL-31 is interim engine before WS-10; WS-10C is an interim engine before WS-15; WS-13E/WS-21 is interim engine before WS-19

2) aircraft are designed to accept re-engineering quickly in the middle of production runs.

Engines are not a roadblock in the development and manufacturing of new aircraft.

 

[jai jaganath]

Re-engining the J-10AS:



View attachment 183129

View attachment 183130

View attachment 183131

Maybe ws-10 performing better than al-31fp

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Maybe ws-10 performing better than al-31fp

Yes, higher thrust and greater MBTO.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

J-15 is being re-engined with the WS-10 as well now. This is existing airframes! The re-engining program has now reached every modern fighter type in service.

This means three things:

1) mass production of WS-10s has reached point where they have surplus numbers to supply older airframes in addition to newer ones being built,

2) WS-10 has enough advantage that it is worth the expense and retraining of maintenance crew to switch,

3) New Chinese aircraft from J-10 to J-11 to J-20 to J-15 are designed to rapidly switch between AL-31 to WS-10 (and possibly WS-15 in the future.) For a while it is thought there is enough differences in the J-15 airframe and requirements (spooling time) that made re-engineering harder -- though J-15 prototypes for new variants have had WS-10s.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

J-15 with WS-10. Could be an earlier prototype.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Writeup on the J-15 re-engining from The Drive:

China’s J-15 Naval Fighter Is Now Powered By Locally Made Engines

The carrier-based J-15 is the last of China’s Flankers to have adopted domestically produced engines, replacing the Russian originals.

www.thedrive.com

China’s J-15 Naval Fighter Is Now Powered By Locally Made Engines
The carrier-based J-15 is the last of China’s Flankers to have adopted domestically produced engines, replacing the Russian originals.
BY THOMAS NEWDICK| PUBLISHED NOV 23, 2022 1:21 PM

Ten years since a Chinese J-15 fighter jetperformed its first landings and takeoffs aboard an aircraft carrier, an operational example of the shipborne fighter has appeared fitted with domestically produced WS-10 engines. This is a major development in the program, and for Chinese aero engines more generally, since the J-15 was the last Chinese derivative of the prolific Flanker family still to be fitted with the original Russian AL-31F engines. The move suggests full confidence in the WS-10 in the challenging naval environment and a further move away from Moscow as an engine supplier as China continues to refine and expand its multifarious ‘Sino-Flanker’ family.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Chinese J-15 naval fighter jets look set to ditch Russian engines

New J-15 shipborne jet clearly equipped with Chinese-made WS-10 engines, CCTV report shows.

www.scmp.com

Chinese ‘Flying Shark’ J-15 naval fighter jets look set to ditch Russian engines

• New J-15 shipborne jet clearly equipped with Chinese-made WS-10 engines, CCTV report shows
• WS-10 or Taihang outperform original Russian AL-31Fs on reliability and safety, military analysts say

Song Zhongping, a former PLA instructor, said the new engines performed better in terms of reliability and safety than the standard Russian ones.

“The biggest disadvantage of Russian engines is that their service life is relatively short, while Chinese engines have improved their overall performance, especially in terms of lifespan,” Song said.

This ensures sustainable combat capabilities for the J-15, he added.

...

Fu Qianshao, a retired PLA Air Force equipment specialist, also said the longer lifespan of the Taihang would save maintenance costs and ensure combat capability.
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“The safety and reliability of the engine will directly affect operational capability, especially as the J-15 is a carrier-based jet. As hangar space on an aircraft carrier is limited, frequent engine replacement is very troublesome,” Fu explained.

It has taken years to finally replace the J-15 engines with the WS-10s, as a carrier-based operations require a much higher engine acceleration rate compared with land-based jets, Fu said.

All new J-15s are expected to be fitted with the WS-10 engines once further test flights are complete, he added.

...

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Evolution of engines on the PLAAF core fighters.

Bolded are the currently produced/upgraded fighters and their engines.

Engine

Fighter

Thrust

AL-31F	J-11	123 kN
WS-10A	J-11B	132 kN
AL-31FN	J-10A	125 kN
AL-31FN Series 3	J-10B	134 kN
WS-10B	J-10C, J-11BG, J-16	144 kN
AL-31FM2	J-20	142 kN
WS-10C	J-20A	155 kN

 

[SexyChineseLady]

This is an excerpt from "Enter the Dragon -- Beginning of a New Era" about the Pakistan pilots who trained on the J-10C.

All the PAF pilots enjoyed basic handling, and confidence-building maneuvers in advanced handling missions, and in clean and tanked configurations both. This was followed by training in air combat tactics and instructor training for some of the PAF aircrew. The crews were taken aback after engaging afterburner (AB). The kick was bigger than the F-16. “There was an unbelievable amount of thrust when I opened up the afterburner for the first time. The J-10C can produce 29,000 lb thrust, which is 10,000 lbs excess thrust than the JF-17 produces, and as much power as two and a half Mirages put together. A single Mirage produces 14,000 lb thrust,” Sqn Ldr Jibran Rashid said. The speed increment was so fast that post-take-off procedures had to be executed in rapid succession to remain with the aircraft.

The trust and the acceleration were amazing even to pilots who had flown the F-16!

The WS-10B's quick acceleration on the J-10C is most interesting as slow spooling was supposed to be a reason why the J-15 was not fitted with the WS-10 before.

That problem, if it were ever true, is certainly fixed now!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The AEF1300 is likely to be the civilian version of the WS-20:

It appeared in the WS-10 family display at Zhuhai -- along with the 3D and 2D TVC variants. WS-20's core is derived from the WS-10.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

With the J-35/31 needing an interim engine before WS-19 and the imminent switch over of the new JF-17 blocks from the RD-33, the WS-13 had a mass production line finished for it last year! Even though the PLAAF/PLANAF have no plane in service that uses a medium engine so forward planning is very good

China completes construction of medium-thrust aeroengine production line - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

A Chinese arms firm has recently completed construction of a third-generation medium-thrust aeroengine production line
...
While the statement did not elaborate on the third-generation medium-thrust aeroengine, Chinese military observers speculated it could be the WS-13 engine

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The WS-10 on a very early J-10 prototype --1004 -- in 2004!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

A recognition guide to the WS-10 from Deino Rupprecht who wrote many of the definitive books on Chinese aircraft:

The first flight of the J-11WS testbed with WS-10 in one nacelle and Al-31 in the other nacelle was in 2002. Twin WS-10s testing started in 2004.

The first production J-11B with twin WS-10As was in 2009.

The first flight of the WS-10 in a J-10 was in 2004 (on prototype 1004.) The first production examples were on J-10Bs in 2015 and J-10Cs in 2018. Full batch production of J-10C with WS-10B began only in 2020.

WS-10B powered J-20 prototypes and limited series production machines in 2015 and then commenced full batch production in J-20A with WS-10C in 2021.

WS-10 was adopted much faster in the production of J-11 and J-20 than the J-10 because of the safety of their twin engine configuration. So that should be a good lesson for new engine development -- test and improve through production for twin engine design first and then move to single engine aircraft!