Exciting Times for Chinese Aircraft Engines!

SexyChineseLady

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yeah, that's why we are changing this :dude:.

GOI is promoting manufacturing of APIs in india
You are trying now but you made your money and reputation over the years from Chinese APIs.

So were all those Indian generics substandard? Because over the years, imports from China was what allowed Indian generics to be cheaper otherwise people in Western would buy the brand name.
 

MonaLazy

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You are trying now but you made your money and reputation over the years from Chinese APIs.

So were all those Indian generics substandard? Because over the years, imports from China was what allowed Indian generics to be cheaper otherwise people in Western would buy the brand name.
No, it's not as cut & dry as you make it out to be.

China poached Indian talent to get to where it is today:


.. all part of the game, but you have no right to claim any high ground whatsoever.
 

SexyChineseLady

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No, it's not as cut & dry as you make it out to be.

China poached Indian talent to get to where it is today:


.. all part of the game, but you have no right to claim any high ground whatsoever.
Sorry, the high ground was claimed by Indians that Chinese stuff is supposedly inferior or non-functioning and yet they use Chinese components in their one big export. That is very silly reasoning.

China just builds stuff and the world buys. They range across all price points. But Chinese stuff works otherwise they would not become the largest exporter in the world because there are a LOT of countries including India with much lower wages than China ;)

This brings us full circle to engines. The reason we have so many turbofan programs now is because the WS-10 works. It was first put into production with the J-11B then the J-16, then the J-10 and now finally the J-20. Each iteration and variant getting better.

Experience from the WS-10 was what allowed the WS-20 and WS-13 series to be made and the WS-15 and WS-19 to be pursued.

Also before the WS-10, China had experience building thousands of WP - series turbojets.

I looked up the Kaveri and it seems the biggest drawback for India was it never followed through and finished up the Kaveri. India never mass produced a turbojet like China did in the WP-6/7/13 for J-6 and J-7 fighters. Or even a turboprop for a light civil plane or trainer.

China did things step by step -- turbojet, turboprop (for transports like Y-12, Y-7, Y-8/9) and finally turbofan. I know the Kaveri but that is it? No easier to build turbojet engine for MiG-21? Or a turboprop for a transport?

This Y-9 uses WJ-6C turboprops:
8A4B3994-C282-4CC3-9EB4-D16927AA9379.jpeg


This J-7BG uses a WP-13F turbojet:
DB14DF12-5C9F-4F31-80F8-AECBF5F5B11F.jpeg


The WS-15 and WS-19 are just the latest projects that stand on the top of a vast pyramid of previous engine projects that worked :)
 
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MonaLazy

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Actually, the high ground was claimed by Indians that Chinese stuff is supposedly inferior or non-functioning and yet they use Chinese components in their one big exports.
If you are talking specifically of pharma APIs then China did not win on quality but cost. Simple!

1642760233925.png


Despite labour being cheaper in India- the other raw material, utilities, logsitics and financing are cheaper in China- undercutting India because of systemic efficiencies.


Before the advent of cheap Chinese APIs, India used to manufacture it mostly in house, and there is a recovery plan in place:
1642760877454.png



Besides competing for APIs with Chinese, Indian pharma industry responded and climbed the value chain to become one of the top global manufacturers of formulation drugs:
1642760455971.png



China just builds stuff and the world buys.
China does not invent, it only builds & builds to a cost less than anywhere else in the world by bringing cost efficiency and kills off competition. That's why the other posters are right when they say low cost is your only weapon. Can you point out one product that is available outside China for lower and yet the world is flocking to buy it more expensive from China? I can give you the example of France & Rafale that multiple countries are queuing up to buy despite say J-10 from China being cheaper.

The reason we have so many turbofan programs now is because the WS-10 works. It was first put into production with the J-11B then the J-16, then the J-10 and now finally the J-20. Each iteration and variant getting better.
Not taking the hard work away from the Chinese, but it is largely because of no other options as the world closed its doors to high tech for China post Tiananmen massacre. The fact that you cannot openly collaborate with the world on military programs (jet engines included) is a mess of your own making.

Especially on jet engines, you can keep counting as many WS-xx as you want but if the engine's life is merely a few hundred hours then you may as well call your planes as pilot killing machines.
 

SexyChineseLady

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If you are talking specifically of pharma APIs then China did not win on quality but cost. Simple!

View attachment 133054

Despite labour being cheaper in India- the other raw material, utilities, logsitics and financing are cheaper in China- undercutting India because of systemic efficiencies.


Before the advent of cheap Chinese APIs, India used to manufacture it mostly in house, and there is a recovery plan in place:
View attachment 133057


Besides competing for APIs with Chinese, Indian pharma industry responded and climbed the value chain to become one of the top global manufacturers of formulation drugs:
View attachment 133056




China does not invent, it only builds & builds to a cost less than anywhere else in the world by bringing cost efficiency and kills off competition. That's why the other posters are right when they say low cost is your only weapon. Can you point out one product that is available outside China for lower and yet the world is flocking to buy it more expensive from China? I can give you the example of France & Rafale that multiple countries are queuing up to buy despite say J-10 from China being cheaper.



Not taking the hard work away from the Chinese, but it is largely because of no other options as the world closed its doors to high tech for China post Tiananmen massacre. The fact that you cannot openly collaborate with the world on military programs (jet engines included) is a mess of your own making.

Especially on jet engines, you can keep counting as many WS-xx as you want but if the engine's life is merely a few hundred hours then you may as well call your planes as pilot killing machines.
Again, India sold low quality generic drugs all those years by using cheap Chinese APIs?

BTW, China is moving quickly into pharma. Western pharmaceuticals had a cosy relationship with China which actually forced Chinese patients to go overseas, including India, to buy and smuggle in generics they can afford. That has all changed.

We'll see what happens in the coming years ;)

As far engines are concern you are holding on to these wishful thinking that Chinese turbofan engines only last a few hours. Sorry, if that were the case China would never have bothered to move from turbojets or the WP-series. Those last a few hundred hours as do all turbojets. Turbofans last thousands of hours and the WS-10s are on hundreds of planes.

The J-16s and J-11Bs use the WS-10s and they are by FAR the most common planes countering Japan and Taiwan:

Japanese fighter pilot Lt. Col. Takamichi Shirota says his country is under increasing pressure from the air. Analysts say it's a pressure faced by few other nations.

More than twice a day, Japanese fighter pilots hear a siren blare, bolt up from their ready-room seats, run to their jets, and scream aloft, ready to intercept a potentially unidentified incursion into Japanese airspace.

It happened to Japan's Air Self Defense Force (JASDF) 947 times in the last fiscal year ending in March. The culprit in most of those cases, warplanes from China's People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF).




Taiwan calls China's repeated nearby military activities "grey zone" warfare, designed to both wear out Taiwan's forces by making them repeatedly scramble, and also to test Taiwan's responses.

The PLAAF/PLANAF are persistant day after day and designed to wear out the Japanese and Taiwanese air forces so they end up simply accepting Chinese military planes going through those areas.

Short of war no other country runs such an intensive air campaign.

If the WS-10s last just a few hundred hours then China would wear its own air force not Japan or Taiwan's. lol

The WS-10s on all those hundreds of J-11s, J-16s and J-10s are wearing down Japanese F-15s and ROC F-16s with their Western engines.

Think about it ;)
 

India Super Power

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Again, India sold low quality generic drugs all those years by using cheap Chinese APIs?

BTW, China is moving quickly into pharma. Western pharmaceuticals had a cosy relationship with China which actually forced Chinese patients to go overseas, including India, to buy and smuggle in generics they can afford. That has all changed.

We'll see what happens in the coming years ;)

As far engines are concern you are holding on to these wishful thinking that Chinese turbofan engines only last a few hours. Sorry, if that were the case China would never have bothered to move from turbojets or the WP-series. Those last a few hundred hours as do all turbojets. Turbofans last thousands of hours and the WS-10s are on hundreds of planes.

The J-16s and J-11Bs use the WS-10s and they are by FAR the most common planes countering Japan and Taiwan:

Japanese fighter pilot Lt. Col. Takamichi Shirota says his country is under increasing pressure from the air. Analysts say it's a pressure faced by few other nations.

More than twice a day, Japanese fighter pilots hear a siren blare, bolt up from their ready-room seats, run to their jets, and scream aloft, ready to intercept a potentially unidentified incursion into Japanese airspace.

It happened to Japan's Air Self Defense Force (JASDF) 947 times in the last fiscal year ending in March. The culprit in most of those cases, warplanes from China's People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF).




Taiwan calls China's repeated nearby military activities "grey zone" warfare, designed to both wear out Taiwan's forces by making them repeatedly scramble, and also to test Taiwan's responses.

The PLAAF/PLANAF are persistant day after day and designed to wear out the Japanese and Taiwanese air forces so they end up simply accepting Chinese military planes going through those areas.

Short of war no other country runs such an intensive air campaign.

If the WS-10s last just a few hundred hours then China would wear its own air force not Japan or Taiwan's. lol

The WS-10s on all those hundreds of J-11s, J-16s and J-10s are wearing down Japanese F-15s and ROC F-16s with their Western engines.

Think about it ;)
China is very good at manufacturing they could manufacturing more nos of engine which compliments their low serviceability and China has a lot of money
Our conception is that Russian engines have very poor serviceability and Chinese engines are basically made based on it so chances are very high
 

MonaLazy

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Again, India sold low quality generic drugs all those years by using cheap Chinese APIs?
Quit taking cheap potshots would you?

India sold world-class generics (otherwise the US FDA would have booted us out long ago) using world-class APIs sourced from China at dirt cheap prices- there! Does that fix it?

We'll see what happens in the coming years
We'll see, we'll see of course. But looking at secrecy and lack of transparency around everything China does- I have little hope it will work out well for China in the long term.

As far engines are concern you are holding on to these wishful thinking
which can change only when China becomes less dictatorial and embraces more openness as a society. Given the general lack of information me or any other observer has no incentive to over estimate your strengths.

The PLAAF/PLANAF are persistant day after day and designed to wear out the Japanese and Taiwanese air forces so they end up simply accepting Chinese military planes going through those areas.
That is such a wasteful strategy- why did you mount missiles on your fighter planes? It is like owning a car and revving it in your garage for 4 hours everyday while going nowhere- what's the point of such an exercise? 😉
 

SexyChineseLady

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Quit taking cheap potshots would you?

India sold world-class generics (otherwise the US FDA would have booted us out long ago) using world-class APIs sourced from China at dirt cheap prices- there! Does that fix it?



We'll see, we'll see of course. But looking at secrecy and lack of transparency around everything China does- I have little hope it will work out well for China in the long term.



which can change only when China becomes less dictatorial and embraces more openness as a society. Given the general lack of information me or any other observer has no incentive to over estimate your strengths.



That is such a wasteful strategy- why did you mount missiles on your fighter planes? It is like owning a car and revving it in your garage for 4 hours everyday while going nowhere- what's the point of such an exercise?
Why are those cheap potshots? You said Chinese products are low quality or doesn't work then why did you use Chinese APIs for your generics? Reasonable question no? Anyways, no need to continue. Chinese vaccines have cornered a global market it never had before. It won't be much different with drugs. So we'll see.

As for engines, Indians can keep their wishful thinking :)

China is mounting a vast aerial campaign to wear out the Japanese and ROC air force. That is the reality:


China can't mount this kind of campaign without reliable engines ;)
 

SexyChineseLady

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China is very good at manufacturing they could manufacturing more nos of engine which compliments their low serviceability and China has a lot of money
Our conception is that Russian engines have very poor serviceability and Chinese engines are basically made based on it so chances are very high
Actually, the previous issue with the WS-10 was their lack of numbers. There was simply not enough of them but that changed around 2019. The WS-10 started to be installed on the J-10C and J-20A because they were finally available. The reliability was never the issue. Far more crashes from AL-31 than WS-10s.

Anyways, if China had to build thousands of engines to run this campaing against Japan and ROC it wouldn't have made sense. It would have put more costs on PLAAF than the JSDAF or ROCAF. (The training aspect of J-16 or J-11 or J-10 pilots going up repeatedly against rivals can't be overlooked but doubt they would do it if it meant wearing out engines.)
 

MonaLazy

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Why are those cheap potshots? You said Chinese products are low quality or doesn't work then why did you use Chinese APIs for your generics? Reasonable question no? Anyways, no need to continue. Chinese vaccines have cornered a global market it never had before. It won't be much different with drugs. So we'll see.
:crazy: maybe if you go back and re-read my last post you will be dis-abused of your whole world against me notion. There is no need to ruffle your feathers.

China can't mount this kind of campaign without reliable engines
Who knows? Everything coming from you is pure hypothesis. No air force in the world wears out the others by flying. They fight it out like real men & women.
 

India Super Power

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Actually, the previous issue with the WS-10 was their lack of numbers. There was simply not enough of them but that changed around 2019. The WS-10 started to be installed on the J-10C and J-20A because they were finally available. The reliability was never the issue. Far more crashes from AL-31 than WS-10s.

Anyways, if China had to build thousands of engines to run this campaing against Japan and ROC it wouldn't have made sense. It would have put more costs on PLAAF than the JSDAF or ROCAF. (The training aspect of J-16 or J-11 or J-10 pilots going up repeatedly against rivals can't be overlooked but doubt they would do it if it meant wearing out engines.)
And even China has bigger economy than Japan and South Korea, so plaaf will never face shortage of funding
So they can aquire many more engines
When an engine based on Russian ones can't be more reliable than Russians
And China is only 20-25 years old in this field maybe after 10-15 years and so many being produced as a result it will increase experience and better study can lead to better than Russian ones but definitely not close to western ones but after your nation is having a successful engine program
 

Kumata

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I know you will not post your propoganda on this thread My sexy bitch ...I ignored u dones,t mean i left the forum... MY hotel room is still booked in sanya hotel ...with view of swimming pool.. been while that i saw your mermaid avtar...

CCP trolls need to control themselves ... we behave ourselfs always...so better be safe than sorry with your mm dicks !!!!!!!

BKL bitch
 

KurtisBrian

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Actually, the previous issue with the WS-10 was their lack of numbers. There was simply not enough of them but that changed around 2019. The WS-10 started to be installed on the J-10C and J-20A because they were finally available. The reliability was never the issue. Far more crashes from AL-31 than WS-10s.

Anyways, if China had to build thousands of engines to run this campaing against Japan and ROC it wouldn't have made sense. It would have put more costs on PLAAF than the JSDAF or ROCAF. (The training aspect of J-16 or J-11 or J-10 pilots going up repeatedly against rivals can't be overlooked but doubt they would do it if it meant wearing out engines.)
I was reading on Wikipedia. It says, "The WS-10 is derived from the CFM56 with the experience gained from the Woshan WS-6 turbofan project, which was abandoned at the start of the 1980s."

Doesn't that mean that the WS-10 engine design IS, or IS equivalent to, a Western engine? That all subsequent WS engine designs are likely also Western or equivalent to Western engines?

Why would the WS series be unreliable? Why is it compared to Russian engines?

If the smart people like/trust the East Asians enough to transfer factories there wouldn't they want to make sure the East Asians had weapons good enough to defend those factories?

thieves prefer to take and use stuff not labor. If the USD loses power and gold increases in power where will the gangs of thieves go to get lots and lots of gold? Who has the most gold? Who is relatively weak compared to what they have?
 

HariPrasad-1

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idk who tf will buy chinese cars ??

they are third-world copies of popular cars.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

fukin copycats




China coppied BMW and made Chinese version. When it was sent for crash test, it scored 0/5 star rating. This is how China copies. It has similarities in look only and not quality. Recently, Nigeria sent JF 17 to intercept an incoming drone. However, because of the poor quality of radar, it could not detect the drone and landed without intercepting the drone. Yet, our Chinese and Pakistani friends won't hesitate to compare it with rafale. Chinese and Pakistanis have born and bought up dictatorship and hence they are made to believe what regime in their country want them to believe. 72% of Chinese believe that China is a democracy. God bless them.
 

KurtisBrian

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China coppied BMW and made Chinese version. When it was sent for crash test, it scored 0/5 star rating. This is how China copies. It has similarities in look only and not quality. Recently, Nigeria sent JF 17 to intercept an incoming drone. However, because of the poor quality of radar, it could not detect the drone and landed without intercepting the drone. Yet, our Chinese and Pakistani friends won't hesitate to compare it with rafale. Chinese and Pakistanis have born and bought up dictatorship and hence they are made to believe what regime in their country want them to believe. 72% of Chinese believe that China is a democracy. God bless them.
This link article says the bad crash results were mostly back in 2005-06. 2006, EVERYTHING changed...in Aug of 2006 everyone woke, US average home prices began to decline. Mortgage bubble popped (yes the pop actually started in Aug 2006 that is because that is when home prices first began to decline). In Matrix movie terms the Dream (Morpheus to the Greeks, Somnus to the Romans) was killed. Neo didn't save Morpheus. China changed too. It got better.


Re JF-17, perhaps the pilot is the problem not the equipment. Russians and Indians seem to use Russian equipment quite effectively. Arabs using the same equipment lose.
 

HariPrasad-1

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This link article says the bad crash results were mostly back in 2005-06. 2006, EVERYTHING changed...in Aug of 2006 everyone woke, US average home prices began to decline. Mortgage bubble popped (yes the pop actually started in Aug 2006 that is because that is when home prices first began to decline). In Matrix movie terms the Dream (Morpheus to the Greeks, Somnus to the Romans) was killed. Neo didn't save Morpheus. China changed too. It got better.


Re JF-17, perhaps the pilot is the problem not the equipment. Russians and Indians seem to use Russian equipment quite effectively. Arabs using the same equipment lose.
Whose problem was there when J11 lost in 33 encounters against saab gripen C (Yes, not even E or F)?
 

KurtisBrian

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Whose problem was there when J11 lost in 33 encounters against saab gripen C (Yes, not even E or F)?
I don't how the scenarios were set up. I don't know what they were trying to train or showcase. I don't know the true classified capabilities of military systems.
I do know that Indians and Russians have been proven to be able to effectively use the same weapons that Arabs have been proven to be unable to effectively use.

that old saying, "It is a poor craftsman who blames his tool." I am blaming the craftsman (who is in this case the pilot or tanker). :)
 

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