Exciting Times for Chinese Aircraft Engines!

[Haldilal]

?? I don't think posted on your threads at all! Are you following me?

Ya'll Nibbiars post you can't even distinguish between a posta and a thread?.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

yeah why do the UK, Italy, France and USA arm the Muslim nations so heavily? Muslim Turks build engines now.
NOTHING for Catholic Brazil, Argentina, Mexico or the Philippines. That is interesting.

US and NATO bombed Serbia to separate Kosovo for muslims. Think about it.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

yeah why do the UK, Italy, France and USA arm the Muslim nations so heavily? Muslim Turks build engines now.
NOTHING for Catholic Brazil, Argentina, Mexico or the Philippines. That is interesting.

Who is actually in control and what is their intent?

are you on weed? we do not need wars and it is good any way we have nuclear umbrella from the USA

 

[Haldilal]

US and NATO bombed Serbia to separate Kosovo for muslims. Think about it.

Ya'll Nibbiars and Chinese invaded Korea to keep the Kim in power.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars @ezsasa Nibba, @hit&run Niba this thread has been derailed. Please lock this thread.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

US and NATO bombed Serbia to separate Kosovo for muslims. Think about it.

Cute mexican sexy lady, designing radars, sorry you do not like them blond, she told me you do not work in aviation

 

[Kumata]

Speak well and don't use aggressive words. Can you do that?

 

[MiG-29SMT]

View attachment 137421

I will tell you my opinion.

Any nation that can build a jet engine, is first tier manufacturer, specially if it has design
India and China can build engines, but so is Brazil, Ukraine, Japan, Germany, Italy, Spain, Czech republic, Sweden, Russia, the USA, Canada. England and maybe soon Saudi Arabia or Iran.

2 tier are nations that can build a copy or are suppliers, Mexico is a supplier, we can design parts but at this moment we do not have a project that justify it so we work for GE or ITP.
Argentina for example is still ambiguous, they have developed jet engines but I do not know if they manufacture them, seems they are not

3 tier is only build parts, no design.


Chinese engines

Japanese engines

IHI Corporation XF9

India GTRE GTX-35VS Kaveri

Brazil Polaris TJ-1000

Saudi Arabia/Brazil TFK-500

Spain

EJ-200, (Europe) Spain Italy, Germany, England

Volvo RM8

 

[MiG-29SMT]

View attachment 137421

Argentina Labala jet engine

But it seems they are not mass build
Micro turbine from Argentina

Ukraine Motor Sich is also a world leader

PBS from Czech republic they make micro jet engines like Argentina

Russia PD14

Iran jet engine owj

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Added the CJ500!

These are Chinese turbofans powering current production aircraft, being flown in testbeds or in static testing.

WS-10B : J-16, J-10C, J-15S, J-15T (CATOBAR), J-11D (in prototype)

W-10C: J-20

WS-10 TVC: showcased on J-10B; possibly productionize for future J-10 and J-20

WS-20: Y-20's intended engine; flying on multiple prototypes, perhaps latest production machines

WS-13E: On prototype of FC-31 and tested on JF-17.

Note: Rumor is a new variant based on the WS-13E will be WS-21 and this might be the interim J-35 engine before WS-19. For a change in designation, there were major differences or upgrades.

WS-15: Developing for J-20 (180Kn!)

WS-19: developing for J-31/J-35 (110Kn!)

WS-11: light engine being developed for JL-8 trainer

WS-17: light engine being developed for JL-10 trainer

WS-18: bomber engine mainly for H-6 series; secondary use in transports, reportedly on Y-20s

CJ1000A: commercial high-bypass engine being developed for the C919.

CJ2000: commercial high-bypass engine being developed for the CR929.

CJ500: commercial high-bypass engine being developed for the ARJ-21.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The above list is only turbofan for manned aircraft.

AEF50E and AEF100E from Guizhou AC are turbofans in production for drones:

There is also a turbojet, ZF850, in production that can be used in drones but would be less fuel efficient.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars @kunata nibba your wife again gone crazy.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

China develops passenger jet, but 40% of parts suppliers are overseas
COMAC's narrow-body aircraft faces steep hurdles in export market

China's C919 passenger jet will take on rival narrow-body planes from Boeing and Airbus. © Reuters
YUSUKE HINATA and TAKASHI KAWAKAMI, Nikkei staff writersOctober 2, 2021 04:11 JST
ZHUHAI, China -- A Chinese-made passenger jet set to compete with American and European rivals counts roughly 40% of its core component suppliers as overseas companies, exposing the risks posed by U.S. trade frictions to a plane that has been under development for more than a decade.
The C919 jetliner, being manufactured by the Commercial Aircraft Corp of China, or COMAC, is due to be delivered to the first customer by the end of the year. However, with that deadline looming, the plane was a no-show at the Airshow China in Zhuhai on Thursday. COMAC instead exhibited a life-size model of the cabin.
"Boeing and Airbus alone will not be enough to meet demand," a COMAC sales executive said at the event. "The new option we'll provide will be in the interest of the airlines."
The narrow-body jet will compete with bestselling models of its size: the Boeing 737 and the Airbus A320. Although state-owned COMAC has not performed demonstration flights or unveiled an actual plane at the Zhuhai air show, it is widely believed that the C919 is approaching the conclusion of its development, which began in 2008.
But potential turbulence lays ahead for the C919's business prospects. Out of the 39 lead suppliers for the plane, more than 40% hail from the U.S. or other countries outside China, according to documents from China-based brokerage Avic Securities and other sources. The remaining suppliers include joint venture firms backed by foreign companies.
Chinese companies are supplying the fuselage and the wings. But a host of Western suppliers are providing the brains and heart of the plane -- the communication and flight control systems, among other core components.
The share of parts sourced from non-Chinese companies appears to rise even higher when tallied in terms of value. This underscores the extent that China's domestically developed passenger jet is dependent on foreign contribution.
The engine poses a major challenge for domestic development. Currently, the C919 is due to be equipped with an engine manufactured by CFM International, a joint venture between General Electric and France's Safran Aircraft Engines.
COMAC is considering adopting the CJ1000 jet engine being developed by Aero Engine Corporation of China, a maker of military aircraft engines. But many observers believe that such an engine will not be commercially available in the near term.
"It will enter the market around 2030," according to Zheshang Securities.
Relying on the foreign-built engines presents its own risks. News emerged in February 2020 that then-President Donald Trump's administration was considering halting shipments of CFM jet engines to China. The crisis seemed to pass after Trump expressed support for selling to China, but the scare underscored that engines, much like smartphone chips, face major geopolitical risks.
Type certification -- which signifies that an aircraft design is airworthy -- poses another challenge.
Regulators in the U.S. and Europe set de facto standards that many other countries follow. Chinese regulators have their own approval process, but they have little global influence, and Chinese planes are usually able to fly commercially only within China. That limits opportunities for exports that would promote larger-scale production and accelerate the industry's growth.
Aircraft makers are desperate to secure certifications other countries will accept. COMAC at first sought European certification for the C919, but there has been little movement on that front.
The technical hurdles are high enough, but China's aviation industry faces other headwinds -- particularly the easing of years of friction between the U.S. and Europe over aviation. During a June summit, Washington and Brussels reached a truce on a dispute over aircraft subsidies, amid shared concern over China's push into aerospace and defense.
This leaves Beijing with less room to exploit that rift to win aircraft certifications or forge cross-border industry partnerships. Cultivating the domestic aviation market is its only real option for now.
A government meeting in January in Shanghai, COMAC's headquarters, revealed that the C919 will receive certification for pilots and ground crews by the end of the year. China Eastern Airlines, one of the country's top three carriers, officially signed a purchasing contract in March.
The national government has put forward the goal of lifting the ratio of Chinese-manufactured passenger planes in service on major air routes to over 10% by 2025. The C919 will play a major role in promoting the homegrown industry.
China's size in terms of both land mass and population make for strong domestic demand that the country's aviation industry can leverage for growth. But if Beijing goes too far in protecting its aircraft makers, it could risk a backlash from the U.S. and Europe that would further complicate efforts to expand abroad

China develops passenger jet, but 40% of parts suppliers are overseas

COMAC's narrow-body aircraft faces steep hurdles in export market

asia.nikkei.com

When the launch of China's first single-aisle C919 aircraft program was announced in 2008, entry into service was scheduled for 2016. However, even five years after the expected date, the aircraft is still far from being certified. Similar terms were announced for the Russian program of the promising medium-haul MS-21: launch in 2007, entry to the market in 2016. But so far, Irkut has not handed over a single vehicle to customers. The outgoing year was another one in which neither Chinese nor Russian aircraft manufacturers again managed to get closer to the start of real deliveries and break the undivided dominance of Airbus and Boeing in the narrow-body segment. Western sanctions and export restrictions add further hurdles to both programs.

Back in early December, COMAC stuck to the promised deadline for obtaining the type certificate for the C919 by the end of this year. But then Yang Zhenmei, head of the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC), said the test program was way behind schedule. Only 1694 out of 3272 points were completed, i.e., slightly more than half of the tasks set by the test program.

In terms of flight tests, the situation is even more deplorable: only 34 out of 276 tasks have been worked out. For example, critical tests at low temperatures remain incomplete. There were plans to send one aircraft to Canada at the beginning of the year, but they were not carried out due to restrictions caused by the pandemic.

Currently, three of the six C919 prototypes are involved in tests in China.

COMAC acknowledged that ongoing delays in the C919 certification program are pushing back the entry into service until at least 2022. In September, the manufacturer still intended to deliver the first aircraft to launch customer China Eastern Airlines before the end of this year. For political reasons, the CAAS may issue a mini-type certificate with strict restrictions before the end of the year - such an idea has already been voiced. However, this will also take a lot of time.

In addition to the usual difficulties for the certification stage, which are difficult to overcome by the Chinese company due to lack of experience, the strict rules for exporting aircraft parts and components from the United States to China have become a huge obstacle. In January 2021, the US Department of Defense listed COMAC as a company with links to the military sector, which significantly complicates logistics for US program providers. The Biden administration surprised the aviation industry by continuing the policies of Donald Trump on economic sanctions.

Although these actions did not have an immediate and irreversible effect on Western manufacturers working with China, they did create a presumption of prohibition for such companies. Many industry analysts have linked the lack of progress on the C919 program to the sanctions, especially after the aircraft never showed up at the Zhuhai Airshow in Zhuhai in September 2021. Chinese officials cited a tight certification testing schedule that prevented the aircraft from being withdrawn for the show, but such claims raised public doubts, as testing has never been an obstacle to Western manufacturers participating in the events. “It is more likely that the C919 certification process has slowed down due to the consequences of US sanctions, including those extended to COMAC. Because of this, most Western suppliers are having difficulty obtaining permits for the export of spare parts to China,” said Agency Partners analyst Sash Tusa. The C919 program is indeed heavily dependent on a number of first-tier Western suppliers, including CFM International, the LEAP-1C engine manufacturer, as well as B/E Aerospace, Honeywell, Moog and Parker Hannifin. Replacing them with local producers is a serious challenge. AVIC's engine division has been developing the ACAE CJ-1000A engine as a local alternative to LEAP since 2012, but it will be years before Chinese engines are available in sufficient quality and quantity.

Программы пассажирских самолетов C919 и MC-21 сталкиваются с очередными задержками

Американский журнал Aviation Week Space Technology опубликовал материал Comac C919 And UAC MC-21 Hit New Delays , перевод которого под заголовком Нарушение дуополии на рынке узкофюзеляжных самолетов откладывается. Программы C919 и MC-21 сталкиваются с очередными…

bmpd.livejournal.com

 

[Haldilal]

China develops passenger jet, but 40% of parts suppliers are overseas
COMAC's narrow-body aircraft faces steep hurdles in export market

China's C919 passenger jet will take on rival narrow-body planes from Boeing and Airbus. © Reuters
YUSUKE HINATA and TAKASHI KAWAKAMI, Nikkei staff writersOctober 2, 2021 04:11 JST
ZHUHAI, China -- A Chinese-made passenger jet set to compete with American and European rivals counts roughly 40% of its core component suppliers as overseas companies, exposing the risks posed by U.S. trade frictions to a plane that has been under development for more than a decade.
The C919 jetliner, being manufactured by the Commercial Aircraft Corp of China, or COMAC, is due to be delivered to the first customer by the end of the year. However, with that deadline looming, the plane was a no-show at the Airshow China in Zhuhai on Thursday. COMAC instead exhibited a life-size model of the cabin.
"Boeing and Airbus alone will not be enough to meet demand," a COMAC sales executive said at the event. "The new option we'll provide will be in the interest of the airlines."
The narrow-body jet will compete with bestselling models of its size: the Boeing 737 and the Airbus A320. Although state-owned COMAC has not performed demonstration flights or unveiled an actual plane at the Zhuhai air show, it is widely believed that the C919 is approaching the conclusion of its development, which began in 2008.
But potential turbulence lays ahead for the C919's business prospects. Out of the 39 lead suppliers for the plane, more than 40% hail from the U.S. or other countries outside China, according to documents from China-based brokerage Avic Securities and other sources. The remaining suppliers include joint venture firms backed by foreign companies.
Chinese companies are supplying the fuselage and the wings. But a host of Western suppliers are providing the brains and heart of the plane -- the communication and flight control systems, among other core components.
The share of parts sourced from non-Chinese companies appears to rise even higher when tallied in terms of value. This underscores the extent that China's domestically developed passenger jet is dependent on foreign contribution.
The engine poses a major challenge for domestic development. Currently, the C919 is due to be equipped with an engine manufactured by CFM International, a joint venture between General Electric and France's Safran Aircraft Engines.
COMAC is considering adopting the CJ1000 jet engine being developed by Aero Engine Corporation of China, a maker of military aircraft engines. But many observers believe that such an engine will not be commercially available in the near term.
"It will enter the market around 2030," according to Zheshang Securities.
Relying on the foreign-built engines presents its own risks. News emerged in February 2020 that then-President Donald Trump's administration was considering halting shipments of CFM jet engines to China. The crisis seemed to pass after Trump expressed support for selling to China, but the scare underscored that engines, much like smartphone chips, face major geopolitical risks.
Type certification -- which signifies that an aircraft design is airworthy -- poses another challenge.
Regulators in the U.S. and Europe set de facto standards that many other countries follow. Chinese regulators have their own approval process, but they have little global influence, and Chinese planes are usually able to fly commercially only within China. That limits opportunities for exports that would promote larger-scale production and accelerate the industry's growth.
Aircraft makers are desperate to secure certifications other countries will accept. COMAC at first sought European certification for the C919, but there has been little movement on that front.
The technical hurdles are high enough, but China's aviation industry faces other headwinds -- particularly the easing of years of friction between the U.S. and Europe over aviation. During a June summit, Washington and Brussels reached a truce on a dispute over aircraft subsidies, amid shared concern over China's push into aerospace and defense.
This leaves Beijing with less room to exploit that rift to win aircraft certifications or forge cross-border industry partnerships. Cultivating the domestic aviation market is its only real option for now.
A government meeting in January in Shanghai, COMAC's headquarters, revealed that the C919 will receive certification for pilots and ground crews by the end of the year. China Eastern Airlines, one of the country's top three carriers, officially signed a purchasing contract in March.
The national government has put forward the goal of lifting the ratio of Chinese-manufactured passenger planes in service on major air routes to over 10% by 2025. The C919 will play a major role in promoting the homegrown industry.
China's size in terms of both land mass and population make for strong domestic demand that the country's aviation industry can leverage for growth. But if Beijing goes too far in protecting its aircraft makers, it could risk a backlash from the U.S. and Europe that would further complicate efforts to expand abroad

China develops passenger jet, but 40% of parts suppliers are overseas

COMAC's narrow-body aircraft faces steep hurdles in export market

asia.nikkei.com

Ya'll Nibbiars The Chinese will differ in ever post you post and will make chest tumping of even non existence things. No point in arguing with them. And accourdibg to some Chinese members here they are even better than the amerika.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Ya'll Nibbiars The Chinese will differ in ever post you post and will make chest tumping of even non existence things. No point in arguing with them. And accourdibg to some Chinese members here they are even better than the amerika.

Eventually they will succeed, if the politicians are not stupid and make a war, by 2040, the world will be truly multipolar, I am sure India will also develop, Mexico belongs to North America, so our economic and technological sphere is the USA/Canada/Central America and the Caribbean with some connections to Europe and South America.

The main worry is not their economic expansion, but a possibility of war that no one will win.


Will China get the tech to build jet engines,? I think so, but I am sure you will also do it, I mean India.

what will be interesting are the potential joint ventures that might happen.

It seems Russia only goes for a shallow cooperation with China, the USA is countering China with a united Europe, Australia, and up to some degree Latin America and maybe India and Japan.

I see India is getting offers China is not getting, Safran to help Kaveri or even RR.

I just hope peace prevails,and they understand cooperation is the best.

 

[Haldilal]

Eventually they will succeed, if the politicians are not stupid and make a war, by 2040, the world will be truly multipolar, I am sure India will also develop, Mexico belongs to North America, so our economic and technological sphere is the USA/Canada/Central America and the Caribbean with some connections to Europe and South America.

The main worry is not their economic expansion, but a possibility of war that no one will win.


Will China get the tech to build jet engines,? I think so, but I am sure you will also do it, I mean India.

what will be interesting are the potential joint ventures that might happen.

It seems Russia only goes for a shallow cooperation with China, the USA is countering China with a united Europe, Australia, and up to some degree Latin America and maybe India and Japan.

I see India is getting offers China is not getting, Safran to help Kaveri or even RR.

I just hope peace prevails,and they understand cooperation is the best.

Ya'll Nibbiars they are just replaying the core and not even want a single material developed by us and will not evwm met our engineer near them. This si what they are offering just want our money will nkt even share the basic knew how. And forget the IP or even technology transfers.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Ya'll Nibbiars they are just replaying the core and not even want a single material developed by us and will not evwm met our engineer near them. This si what they are offering just want our money will nkt even share the basic knew how. And forget the IP or even technology transfers.

you will eventually develop, the question is the deals, the Japanese get pretty good deals, what happens to you happens to all developing nations. Mexico only develops some parts. but it is impossible for RRs for example remain the leader without cooperation, and to be honest they are pretty smart.

I will give you an example PD-35, pretty much is really the best competitor to RRs trent engines, but Russia is isolated, and technology is money constrained and by that i mean profits.

Russia has very likely a very few uses for PD-35, perhaps the Chinese new airliner but China cheats, so they do not share PD-35 technology, Russia is not welcomed in the west, so they are isolated.

India is courted by England or France, they will not give you much, but they will give you enough, the Japanese are an example they develop relatively low power domestic engines but they make a lot of Money with international programs.

In Mexico they understand that, but for you, I mean India you are 10 times the population of Mexico, so it is more urgent defend your economy and your country so military programs are more urgent.

Mexico has not that problem, we are 3 times less population than the USA, but 10% of the USA population is Mexican, so we like it or not we are under the USA military umbrella, thus GE has a very good design center in Mexico, but we do not design the whole engine.

India should collaborate in different programs, learn from different sources, I know you are not cheaters, aerospace companies trust India, same is Japan, and collaboration is needed in aerospace, you just need negotiators, you have very capable people, but I am sure you will get the technology

 

[Haldilal]

you will eventually develop, the question is the deals, the Japanese get pretty good deals, what happens to you happens to all developing nations. Mexico only develops some parts. but it is impossible for RRs for example remain the leader without cooperation, and to be honest they are pretty smart.

I will give you an example PD-35, pretty much is really the best competitor to RRs trent engines, but Russia is isolated, and technology is money constrained and by that i mean profits.

Russia has very likely a very few uses for PD-35, perhaps the Chinese new airliner but China cheats, so they do not share PD-35 technology, Russia is not welcomed in the west, so they are isolated.

India is courted by England or France, they will not give you much, but they will give you enough, the Japanese are an example they develop relatively low power domestic engines but they make a lot of Money with international programs.

In Mexico they understand that, but for you, I mean India you are 10 times the population of Mexico, so it is more urgent defend your economy and your country so military programs are more urgent.

Mexico has not that problem, we are 3 times less population than the USA, but 10% of the USA population is Mexican, so we like it or not we are under the USA military umbrella, thus GE has a very good design center in Mexico, but we do not design the whole engine.

India should collaborate in different programs, learn from different sources, I know you are not cheaters, aerospace companies trust India, same is Japan, and collaboration is needed in aerospace, you just need negotiators, you have very capable people, but I am sure you will get the technology

Ya'll Nibbiars our public sector undertakings are worst when it comes to the negotiations and our private sectors is almost non existence in the aircracts engines developments.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Ya'll Nibbiars our public sector undertakings are worst when it comes to the negotiations and our private sectors is almost non existence in the aircracts engines developments.

well I think you are not so bad you have an engine, and you have several aircraft programs, plus you have a fast developing economy, but remember it takes time, I do not know your age, but I am 50, when I was young I wanted to be aerospace engineer, even aircraft mechanic, I thought we did not have future, but we did, your country is more evident you have future, you have achieve many technical feats, it takes time, but progress is not stoppable, our Chinese posters want to make feel us we are behind, f234534 them, believe in you, India and Indians have give to humanity many great things in the past, you will do it again as humans all we are equal, all we think, it is only attitude, If I would have been patient perhaps now I would be working in Queretaro, so everything is work, study and do not get into the psy warfare others use, with crap India can not do or Mexico can not do, or Brazil can not do, in reality i hope we cooperate so there is peace, but i wish all nations grow. because we all are humans and we are equal

 

[Haldilal]

well I think you are not so bad you have an engine, and you have several aircraft programs, plus you have a fast developing economy, but remember it takes time, I do not know your age, but I am 50, when I was young I wanted to be aerospace engineer, even aircraft mechanic, I thought we did not have future, but we did, your country is more evident you have future, you have achieve many technical feats, it takes time, but progress is not stoppable, our Chinese posters want to make feel us we are behind, f234534 them, believe in you, India and Indians have give to humanity many great things in the past, you will do it again as humans all we are equal, all we think, it is only attitude, If I would have been patient perhaps now I would be working in Queretaro, so everything is work, study and do not get into the psy warfare others use, with crap India can not do or Mexico can not do, or Brazil can not do, in reality i hope we cooperate so there is peace, but i wish all nations grow. because we all are humans and we are equal

Ya'll Nibbiars I am 26 this month and still struggling to find a premanent job may is that why I have become so much negative now than before.