Early Mauryan temples discovered in Hardoi

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Shaitan

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Most Gupta coins are crap. There just a few good ones, namely the one with Chandragupta II riding a horse and the archer types.

Gupta coins, generally speaking, are cheap imitations of Kushan coins. This is especially true for early Gupta coins. Later Gupta coins have a lower degree of Kushan influence, but they are generally of lower quality as well.




These are Later Kushan coins. The one on the bottom belongs to Vasudeva I think. He was the last important Kushan, and the empire began declining under him. This is reflected in the decreasing quantity and quality of coinage. However, even these Late Kushan coins, along with Kushano-Sassanian and Kidarite coins, are easily comparable to Gupta coins, and some cases even superior.

But if you look at the Kushan gold coins of Vima Kadphises, Kanishka, and Huvishka (like the ones that I posted), the Kushan coins are clearly superior.
I know. I was only comparing the hands(incense throwing). On the Gupta ones it looks deformed all the time.





In the Kushan ones it looks better regardless if it's in their decline phase or peak.

I wasn't trying to compare the overall quality.
 
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MAYURA

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IMO, the Kushan gold coins are the most beautiful in all of Indian history. Their craftsmanship is unmatched by any others and rival that of Rome. There should be a thread dedicated entirely to them.
Kushan gold coins are most beautiful in ancient indian history because they were minted by greeks but even then kushanas in no way match rome in realism.

Compare this coin of Trajan




with a kushan gold coin

 

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I know. I was only comparing the hands. On the Gupta ones it looks deformed all the time.



In the Kushan ones it looks better regardless if it's in their decline phone or peak.

I wasn't trying to compare the overall quality.
I'm glad that you agree with me, my son.
 

Shaitan

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I'm glad that you agree with me, my son.
My son, no tension I always agree.

Kushan gold coins are most beautiful in ancient indian history because they were minted by greeks but even then kushanas in no way match rome in realism.

Compare this coin of Trajan




with a kushan gold coin


I seriously have to agree.

That part of the world is where this ultra realism art basically originated from. And they continued to be the masters of it.





Better coins could be used though.
 
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civfanatic

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Kushan gold coins are most beautiful in ancient indian history because they were minted by greeks but even then kushanas in no way match rome in realism.
Do you have any proof that they were minted by Greeks? They were most likely minted by Indians who used some Greek methods in creating the coins. The major Kushan mints were in Gandhara, namely Taxila and Purushapur. There were also smaller mints in Kashmir, Kapisa, and maybe Mathura.

Compare this coin of Trajan




with a kushan gold coin

You just compared one the best preserved coins of Trajan with one of the most deformed coins of Kanishka.

Please look at the examples of Kushan coins I posted in Post #36. They were comparable to Roman coinage of the 1st-2nd centuries C.E. (when both Kushan and Roman empires were at their height).
 

MAYURA

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Most Gupta coins are crap. There are just a few good ones, namely the one with Chandragupta II riding a horse and some archer types.

Gupta coins, generally speaking, are cheap imitations of Kushan coins. This is especially true for early Gupta coins. Later Gupta coins have a lower degree of Kushan influence, but they are generally of lower quality as well.
Gupta gold coins are normally of low gold content from the beginning as they are of a native indian dynasty lacking the foreign skill in art.


But in rest of the things Gupta age was remarkable particularly in architecture and painting .

The intellectual output of gupta age is as great infront of kushana age as US army is in front of colombian drug cartels.
 
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Shaitan

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I wouldn't doubt it if it was Greek, or Greek trained men making Gerco-Roman styled coins, statues, etc. in Gandhara, etc.






Most Gupta coins are crap. There are just a few good ones, namely the one with Chandragupta II riding a horse and some archer types.

Gupta coins, generally speaking, are cheap imitations of Kushan coins. This is especially true for early Gupta coins. Later Gupta coins have a lower degree of Kushan influence, but they are generally of lower quality as well.

I dont think so. They're fine.
 
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MAYURA

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Do you have any proof that they were minted by Greeks? They were most likely minted by Indians who used some Greek methods in creating the coins. The major Kushan mints were in Gandhara, namely Taxila and Purushapur. There were also smaller mints in Kashmir, Kapisa, and maybe Mathura.
Kushana sculpture is heavily hellenized, its religion was too influenced by greeks and we know for sure that kanishka used services of greek engineer in building his tall vihar at Peshawar so it remains my reasonable guess.
kushanas were hellenized iranic group ruling over an indo aryan region.


You just compared one the best preserved coins of Trajan with one of the most deformed coins of Kanishka.

Please look at the examples of Kushan coins I posted in Post #36. They were comparable to Roman coinage of the 1st-2nd centuries C.E. (when both Kushan and Roman empires were at their height).
As shaitan said, i should have used better coins but that does not change the reality .

anyone can see the difference man. kushana gold coins are very deformed in bulk though there may be some good ones.
 

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My son, no tension I always agree.




I seriously have to agree.

That part of the world is where this ultra realism art basically originated from. And they continued to be the masters of it.





Better coins could be used though.
Better coins are not better than inferior coins of roman emperors.


The forum we left had a great member whose thesis of western superiority was attacked by all but it is a fact that everything great was achieved in that part of world from painting to architecture to military.
 
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MAYURA

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I wouldn't doubt it if it was Greek, or Greek trained men making Gerco-Roman styled coins, statues, etc. in Gandhara, etc.









I dont think so. They're fine.


Clear proof of greek superiority in art . Greeks were the driving force of kushanas in pretty much everything.
 

Shaitan

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Better coins are not better than inferior coins of roman emperors.


The forum we left had a great member whose thesis of western superiority was attacked by all but it is a fact that everything great was achieved in that part of world from painting to architecture to military.

Agreed, Roman golden coins are consistently good. Cannot say that for Kushan ones.


Even the shitty ones can be compared to the best of the Kushans.


 

Shaitan

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Clear proof of greek superiority in art . Greeks were the driving force of kushanas in pretty much everything.
The western world was an animal when it comes to fine art.










Some Roman art.

Look at the marble art. You cant even refine that anymore even today!!
 
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Shaitan

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Just one of these Greek/Roman bronze statues will take a massive shit on anything India was doing. (contemporary)
 

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great pictures proving my theory of progress based on racial profile as correct.

I in all seriousness think that it is all about race ( i can see indians coming to tear me apart) , the greeks being white had best progress followed by chinese slightly darker but ahead of middle easterners who in turn are ahead of dark indians who further are ahead of black africans.
 

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Gupta gold coins are normally of low gold content from the beginning as they are of a native indian dynasty lacking the foreign skill in art.
What is interesting is that the Guptas issued almost no silver or copper coins, while Kushans issued tens of thousands of copper coins, and their nominal vassals as well as subordinate allies issued thousands of silver coins (they could not issue gold coins as this was the monopoly of the Imperial Kushans). For example, we have 13,220 silver coins of just the Western Satrap Nahapana, which is quite a large amount. A large number of these silver coins were re-struck and re-issued by Gautamiputra Satakarni, after he defeated Nahapana.

The scarcity of silver and copper coinage of the Gupta age, and the scarcity of even gold coinage from the post-Gupta age, indicates a general decline in trade, commerce, and economic prosperity as well as the reduced role that lesser merchants, commoners, and peasants could play in the economy. Gold coins are good for making large transactions (such as land) and for buying expensive luxuries, but the lesser merchants, commoners, peasants, and others have to rely on mostly copper and some silver issue. It is with copper and silver coinage that regular and more mundane goods like grains, livestock, cloth, etc. are exchanged, and not with gold.


But in rest of the things Gupta age was remarkable particularly in sculpture and painting .

The intellectual output of gupta age is as great infront of kushana age as US army is in front of colombian drug cartels.
We are discussing coinage and not literature. I agree that Gupta literature was greater than of any preceding age, but it was during the Kushan age that Greco-Roman ideas of mathematics and astronomy were transmitted and written down in India in the form of the Yavanajataka, and this along with the Romaka Siddhanta and Paulisa Siddhanta undoubtedly had a great impact on future Indian mathematics and astronomy. I think even Varahamihira mentions them.
 

Shaitan

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The forum we left had a great member whose thesis of western superiority was attacked by all but it is a fact that everything great was achieved in that part of world from painting to architecture to military.
Way ahead.

Roman structures survive today!! And not just in the Italian peninsular, but in N. Africa, Britain, Iberia, Levant, Turkey, etc, etc.









People like to say that the Romans are overrated..... Trust me, it's for a ----in reason..


They had to have some serious capital to the shit they did,
 

Shaitan

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great pictures proving my theory of progress based on racial profile as correct.

I in all seriousness think that it is all about race ( i can see indians coming to tear me apart) , the greeks being white had best progress followed by chinese slightly darker but ahead of middle easterners who in turn are ahead of dark indians who further are ahead of black africans.

Well this is clearly not true.

Egypt, Mesopotamia, and the Indus were dark skinned people. And they were WAAAAAYYYYY a head of the Romans and Greeks. Romans were just a bunch of tribals.
 

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What is interesting is that the Guptas issued almost no silver or copper coins, while Kushans issued tens of thousands of copper coins, and their nominal vassals as well as subordinate allies issued thousands of silver coins (they could not issue gold coins as this was the monopoly of the Imperial Kushans). For example, we have 13,220 silver coins of the Western Satrap Nahapana, which is quite a large amount. A large number of these silver coins were re-struck and re-issued by Gautamiputra Satakarni, after he defeated Nahapana.
I agree with broad idea but chandragupta vikramadity did issue some great silver coins though not plentiful as kushana silver and copper coins because of less international trade in gupta age.


The scarcity of silver and copper coinage of the Gupta age, and the scarcity of even gold coinage from the post-Gupta age, indicates a general decline in trade, commerce, and economic prosperity as well as the reduced role that lesser merchants, commoners, and peasants could play in the economy. Gold coins are good for making large transactions (such as land) and for buying expensive luxuries, but the lesser merchants, commoners, peasants, and others have to rely on mostly copper and some silver issue. It is with copper and silver coinage that regular and more mundane goods like grains, livestock, cloth, etc. are exchanged, and not with gold.

To some extent yes but there are some exceptional cases as coinage also depends on rulers and his stock of metals.

from 3rd century to 7th century china does not have much coinage yet literary sources do not talk of any decrease in revenue. ( paper money was not there)



We are discussing coinage and not literature. I agree that Gupta literature was greater than of any preceding age, but it was during the Kushan age that Greco-Roman ideas of mathematics and astronomy were transmitted and written down in India in the form of the Yavanajataka, and this along with the Romaka Siddhanta and Romaka Siddhanta undoubtedly had a great impact on future Indian mathematics and astronomy. I think even Varahamihira mentions them.
Yavanjataka was written in 269 ad a time when mainland india had already seen Kushanas decline.

greek works had some impact on astronomy but almost none on mathematics.


Varahmihira just calls them yavana barbarians but to be adored for expertise in astronomy as they really were. With Varahmihira , indians acquired far greater precision in some of the techniques of astronomy.

even bulk of sino indian contact started during gupta and post gupta period.

buddhism in china was limited during kushana period but in gupta age, it got new impetus.
 

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Kushana sculpture is heavily hellenized, its religion was too influenced by greeks and we know for sure that kanishka used services of greek engineer in building his tall vihar at Peshawar so it remains my reasonable guess.
kushanas were hellenized iranic group ruling over an indo aryan region.
Hellenic influence does not equal "made by Greeks". No one doubts Hellenic influence on Kushans, but the actual quantity of Greeks in that region (Afghanistan, NW India, etc.) was probably quite small. It is much more likely that these coins were made by Indian artisans in Kushan employ using Greek methods.


As shaitan said, i should have used better coins but that does not change the reality .

anyone can see the difference man. kushana gold coins are very deformed in bulk though there may be some good ones.
The very existence of those good ones shows that Kushans were not far behind Romans in the craftsmanship of their coins.

Both Romans and Han Chinese commented on the great wealth of the Kushan Empire. Since the Kushan Empire existed when both the Romans and the Han were at their height, and incredibly wealthy in their own right, the fact that Romans like Bardesanes and Han Chinese like Gan Ying comment on the wealth of the Kushans in noteworthy.
 

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Well this is clearly not true.

Egypt, Mesopotamia, and the Indus were dark skinned people. And they were WAAAAAYYYYY a head of the Romans and Greeks. Romans were just a bunch of tribals.

Egypt , mesopotamia and indus valley have not produced a single philosopher of note or any scientist.

please compare from classical antiquity not from cradle of civilization period in which even average people built civilization.


Is it not fact that if we make overall sum total of achievements in most things in last 2500 years ( we should not take exceptions as even bangladesh can lead for first five minutes in a soccer match with brazil but it can not win the game) we are led to conclusion that


1. white men have achieved most of all races in both classical times and modern era

2. they are followed by chinese who are darker than them but fairer than others

3. chinese are followed by middle easterners who are darker than chinese but fairer than above two types of people

4. middle easterners are followed by indians who are darkest of all among these people



last place is occupied by black africa 90 percent of whom were hunter gatherers till 19th century when whitemen came ( ofcourse white bastards carried too much atrocity on them )



Do you not see any pattern?
 
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