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[Chinmoy]

Dude, what're you talking about?? The entire turret needs a drastic redesigning!! Plus, the hull ammo storage needs to go as well. Then there is the issue with the main gun and that huge-ass mantlet dead center of the front turret. And let's not even talk about the lower front hull plate. There are just too many issues with the base design that wasn't addressed in the MkIA, for whatever reason.

I am talking about what user want, not what we as fanboy wants. For example we do cry about the 120 mm rifled gun, but did user user asked for a smoothbore gun in Mk1A?

No, not that. You want adequate level of protection on take with a 4 man crew, then you'll have to go THICC!! Look at the Abrams SEPV3!! So the weight itself is not that big of an issue.

If you want additional protection for your crew member, you have to put protective measures in place. But going on adding more and more armour to justify it is simply killing the purpose of weight category in design phase. Either you have to work on metallurgy part to keep it light or some other option like APS or ERA to solve the issue.

 

[jai jaganath]

Fekne ka bhi Seema hota hai

 

[Chinmoy]

Fear of the M1 Abrams, wasn't it??

No. M1Abrams resulted in T-90, not T-72.

You mean the MkI or the MkIA?? The MkI, as far as I remember, is 58.5 tons, no??

Battle weight of Mk1 is 62 ton. Battle weight of Mk1A is 68 ton.

 

[Blood+]

No. M1Abrams resulted in T-90, not T-72.

I wasn't talking about T-72M1, I was talking about the Arjun.

Battle weight of Mk1 is 62 ton. Battle weight of Mk1A is 68 ton.

I see, so the 58.5 ton figure is empty weight I take then??

 

[Chinmoy]

Fekne ka bhi Seema hota hai

This is 30 year plan. So keeping current situation in mind, its not absurd. But will have to see whether it can be achieved down the line.

 

[Chinmoy]

I wasn't talking about T-72M1, I was talking about the Arjun.

PSQR for Arjun which was released in 1972-73 asked for a 55 ton tank. Pakis getting Abrams was no where in sight at that time.

I see, so the 58.5 ton figure is empty weight I take then??

Yes.

 

[Blood+]

I am talking about what user want, not what we as fanboy wants.

I see. I guess the engineers at Chrysler Defense and Krauss-Maffei were just a bunch of fanboys then.

For example we do cry about the 120 mm rifled gun, but did user user asked for a smoothbore gun in Mk1A?

Well, who knows?? Maybe they are just a bunch of half wits, the top officials of the Army I mean.

If you want additional protection for your crew member, you have to put protective measures in place. But going on adding more and more armour to justify it is simply killing the purpose of weight category in design phase. Either you have to work on metallurgy part to keep it light

Dude, if the Germans or the Muricans can't pull it off, then how do you expect us to do the same??

or some other option like APS or ERA to solve the issue.

You cannot rely on any one of them, you need all of them - armor, ERA, APS - all of it.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

View attachment 253008

 

[jai jaganath]

This is 30 year plan. So keeping current situation in mind, its not absurd. But will have to see whether it can be achieved down the line.

Even if it's 30 year old plan
It's not feasible
U need cbg for it
We need huge amount of destroyers frigates and especially submarines
Post that we can think about AC coz simultaneously will cost us a lot better focus of 3rd carrier which itself will take atleast 2 years for clearance and then focus on building subs and future destroyers

 

[SKC]

Fekne ka bhi Seema hota hai

Nothing outrageous with the claim. We are not going to make all 3-4 carriers at once parallelly. They will be coming one after another in coming decades.

 

[jai jaganath]

Nothing outrageous with the claim. We are not going to make all 3-4 carriers at once parallelly. They will be coming one after another in coming decades.

Definitely not but we have many other requirements too
We need huge nos of destroyers subs atleast frigate part is sorted bcoz after p-17a
P-17b is lined up and mostly confirmed

 

[SKC]

Definitely not but we have many other requirements too
We need huge nos of destroyers subs atleast frigate part is sorted bcoz after p-17a
P-17b is lined up and mostly confirmed

Yes; So?

 

[jai jaganath]

Yes; So?

So better spend resources on it rather going for 4th or 5th carrier
Once these ships start their constructions we can look for further carriers

 

[SKC]

So better spend resources on it rather going for 4th or 5th carrier
Once these ships start their constructions we can look for further carriers

There are far more qualified people in Navy and Ministry who knows how to handle the things.

If they have plan for 4-5 carriers in future, then they have plan for the battle groups also and will have all ships ready for each carrier with time.

 

[jai jaganath]

There are far more qualified people in Navy and Ministry who knows how to handle the things.

If they have plan for 4-5 carriers in future, then they have plan for the battle groups also and will have all ships ready for each carrier with time.

Definitely then no point to discuss
But ig it's just DM statement don't how much has been done with forces
It's just election gimmick
Anyways not today's topic

 

[Chinmoy]

I see. I guess the engineers at Chrysler Defense and Krauss-Maffei were just a bunch of fanboys then.

They were not as they, instead of getting stuck with Tiger and Panther, carried on with studies on design aspect and were able to convince the user on their design. We on other hand got stuck with Vijayanta.

Well, who knows?? Maybe they are just a bunch of half wits, the top officials of the Army I mean.

Yeah, one could always claim himself or herself to be more intelligent then the other oblivious to any facts.

Dude, if the Germans or the Muricans can't pull it off, then how do you expect us to do the same??

Germans and Muricans were able to get Abrams because designers didn't thought that they could supersede any of the requirement laid down in the PSQR/GSQR.

You cannot rely on any one of them, you need all of them - armor, ERA, APS - all of it.

Absolutely. For that you have to do a brainstorming with user and among yourself on how to make the tank battlefield feasible. You can't go on and keep on adding armour to cover one aspect and discarding all other aspects.

 

[Chinmoy]

Even if it's 30 year old plan
It's not feasible
U need cbg for it
We need huge amount of destroyers frigates and especially submarines
Post that we can think about AC coz simultaneously will cost us a lot better focus of 3rd carrier which itself will take atleast 2 years for clearance and then focus on building subs and future destroyers

Your point here being? Don't post anything just because you have to fill up the space.

 

[SKC]

Your point here being?

He has no point just want to do standard RR every then and now.

 

[jai jaganath]

Your point here being? Don't post anything just because you have to fill up the space.

My entire point was allocation of funds should now be on subs and destroyers
Not on 4th or 5th carrier
When he is saying such things at present that indicates either they are focusing on building more carriers or its just election gimmick

 

[Samej Jangir]

So better spend resources on it rather going for 4th or 5th carrier
Once these ships start their constructions we can look for further carriers

India is not stagnant. As it grows, it will have more resources and will also need more avenues of govt spending. When underdeveloped, govt spending will be focused on basic infra like roads, toilets, railways etc but as these basic infra is created and India moves on, lakhs of crores being spent on infra will no longer be needed once the infra is already in place. So, govt will instead spend the money on tech and defence as they also create employment, circulate resources and generates something useful. This is when more opportunity to make large defence expenditure arises and India will have money for submarines, carriers etc at the same time.

BTW, it is a case of 2035 when the 3rd carrier will be commissioned and Indian economy would have matured