DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Arihant Roy]

All's well but six per launch vehicle seems a bit low considering the mass and dimensions of the missile rounds. There are 20 missiles per launch vehicles in each of the Iron Dome launch vehicles, we should have been able to put at least a dozen missiles considering a Pinaka MBRl carries 12 rounds which are a lot bigger than the Astra missiles.

Nice logical question. Have been wondering when will someone bring this up.

The Qrsam is a bigger missile in dimensions compared to Iron Dome Tamir interceptor. Tamir carries a much smaller warhead compared to our Qrsam . Then Tamir is meant to intercept targets whose relative distance is closing wrt to the launcher. This is not always the case for Qrsam missile. It will work equally well against receding targets . So more propellants with a higher cruise velocity and peak velocity is required . Larger propellant loading is also required because Qrsam is meant to intercept targets with a velocity of 500 m/sec at 20 km ranges . That's asking a lot from a missile of this class.

Tamir has much shorter max engagement range which is around 8-10 km. Qrsam can engage targetsflying at velocity of 300m/sec at 30 km. Both are missiles meant for different target sets which don't overlap. The qrsam missile has to execute high G maneuvers in order to intercept targets with a high Pk.Low flying cas Aircrafts won't be flying in a straight line or a predictable trajectory . Maneuvers bleed your energy . So in order to be both maneuverable and have a good range ,the missile needs to carry quite a large amount of solid propellants .

This is not the case with Tamir. It's targets are grad rockets , improvised rockets and 155 mm shells which will fly in a definite predicted trajectory . The Tamir missile wouldn't need to make high G turns and banks in order to meet its target unlike Qrsam. So you can have a compact missile for a given range .

I maynot be coherent but I assume this will answer your queries.

 

[Arihant Roy]

Qrsams BSR and BFMFR are the first indigenous home grown radars to use GaN TRMM. I don't think there is yet any other radar from the stables of LRDe to use GaN TRM

This also means we can now fabricate and series manufacture these GaN TRM in sizeable quantities . And this in itself is another achievement. It's one thing to make small batches in the laboratory and another to mass produce them in a cost effective manner with acceptable QA/QC standards.

The only in-service radar to use GaN modules us the MFSTAR from IAI Elta. And by extension , the IAF's MRSAM squadrons will also receive GaN based search, acquisition and tracking radars .

 

[porky_kicker]

Qrsams BSR and BFMFR are the first indigenous home grown radars to use GaN TRMM. I don't think there is yet any other radar from the stables of LRDe to use GaN TRM

This also means we can now fabricate and series manufacture these GaN TRM in sizeable quantities . And this in itself is another achievement. It's one thing to make small batches in the laboratory and another to mass produce them in a cost effective manner with acceptable QA/QC standards.

The only in-service radar to use GaN modules us the MFSTAR from IAI Elta. And by extension , the IAF's MRSAM squadrons will also receive GaN based search, acquisition and tracking radars .


View attachment 66497

The radars on OSS and project 20 ship to name a few

 

[Arihant Roy]

The battery multi function radar also has a backup CCD / thermal imager which can pick up acs at ranges upto 40 kms. The electro optics are from IRDE. It also has a laser range finder.

 

[Arihant Roy]

The radars on OSS and project 20 ship

So by extension, the latest variant of LRTR and VLRTR also use GaN TRMM. Since the radar on OSS itself is based on LRTR

 

[Swiftfarts]

A variant of this Ku band seeker is being used in the Qrsam. Economies of scale will be achieved since the same seeker or variants of it will be used in three missiles

Am certain that the end user, Indian Army has learnt the right lessons from the conflicts in Libya and NagornoKarabekh . It has certainly asked the DRDO to make the necessary changes or rather fine tune the radars and the missile for the low RCS UAV threat .

View attachment 66475

I have read somewhere that actual seeker is X band AESA seeker using vivaldi elements. How much truth in that ?

 

[porky_kicker]

So by extension, the latest variant of LRTR and VLRTR also use GaN TRMM. Since the radar on OSS itself is based on LRTR

Yes , SWaP would be unmanageable without using GaN ( or GaAs )

 

[porky_kicker]

The QRSAM missile can not only engage fast moving , high flying , maneuvering targets , it can equally engage very low flying , very low speed , maneuvering targets ( which is a difficult thing to do )

I hope they also mount a IR seeker from the under development drdo manpad ( once the drdo manpad is proven ) on QRSAM to complicate enemy countermeasures.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

Nice logical question. Have been wondering when will someone bring this up.

The Qrsam is a bigger missile in dimensions compared to Iron Dome Tamir interceptor. Tamir carries a much smaller warhead compared to our Qrsam . Then Tamir is meant to intercept targets whose relative distance is closing wrt to the launcher. This is not always the case for Qrsam missile. It will work equally well against receding targets . So more propellants with a higher cruise velocity and peak velocity is required . Larger propellant loading is also required because Qrsam is meant to intercept targets with a velocity of 500 m/sec at 20 km ranges . That's asking a lot from a missile of this class.

Tamir has much shorter max engagement range which is around 8-10 km. Qrsam can engage targetsflying at velocity of 300m/sec at 30 km. Both are missiles meant for different target sets which don't overlap. The qrsam missile has to execute high G maneuvers in order to intercept targets with a high Pk.Low flying cas Aircrafts won't be flying in a straight line or a predictable trajectory . Maneuvers bleed your energy . So in order to be both maneuverable and have a good range ,the missile needs to carry quite a large amount of solid propellants .

This is not the case with Tamir. It's targets are grad rockets , improvised rockets and 155 mm shells which will fly in a definite predicted trajectory . The Tamir missile wouldn't need to make high G turns and banks in order to meet its target unlike Qrsam. So you can have a compact missile for a given range .

I maynot be coherent but I assume this will answer your queries.

the israeli iron dome seems to be a purpose built system meant for israeli conditions,while qrsam is more general.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

View attachment 66505

K15 booster propellent grain cast.

In layman's term it is the fuel which is cast as a solid with a distinct design inorder to achieve the desired burn rate

its like fuel shaped like how the south indian food puttu is shaped in the cylinder.

 

[porky_kicker]

QRSAM has all the way thrust almost throughout its flight envelope. In addition to that the jet vane control is active almost throughout the flight envelope , which cuts range to some degree , but allows for excellent manuverability at any point throughout its flight envelope with active thrust on. ( JVC won't work without active thrust )

Long story short the designers went for a dog fighting missile ( at the expense of range ).

 

[patriots]

View attachment 66508

QRSAM has all the way thrust almost throughout its flight envelope. In addition to that the jet vane control is active almost throughout the flight envelope , which cuts range to some degree , but allows for excellent manuverability at any point throughout its flight envelope with active thrust on. ( JVC won't work without active thrust )

Long story short the designers went for a dog fighting missile ( at the expense of range ).

Bdw the report says qrsam engaged banshee at medium range
What medium range means here
As we know qrsam is for short range

 

[ArgonPrime]

The Qrsam is a bigger missile in dimensions compared to Iron Dome Tamir interceptor. Tamir carries a much smaller warhead compared to our Qrsam . Then Tamir is meant to intercept targets whose relative distance is closing wrt to the launcher.

I'm afraid your 'answer' doesn't adress the issue at all!!

My point was that, isn't the QRSAM based on the Astra AAM?? So it has to be smaller in comparison to the Barak 8 yet the land-based launcher carries 8 such missiles per vehicle. So why does the former system has a lesser number of missiles per vehicle when it's significantly smaller than the latter??

The same goes for the Pinaka rockets as well, which are definitely heftier than the QRSAM rounds yet each of the launchers carries 12 of them!! So why couldn't they pack at least a dozen smaller missiles in a launch vehicle??

 

[Chinmoy]

I'm afraid your 'answer' doesn't adress the issue at all!!

My point was that, isn't the QRSAM based on the Astra AAM?? So it has to be smaller in comparison to the Barak 8 yet the land-based launcher carries 8 such missiles per vehicle. So why does the former system has a lesser number of missiles per vehicle when it's significantly smaller than the latter??

The same goes for the Pinaka rockets as well, which are definitely heftier than the QRSAM rounds yet each of the launchers carries 12 of them!! So why couldn't they pack at least a dozen smaller missiles in a launch vehicle??

How many missiles a Spyder launcher carries?

Role of QRSAM is equal to Spyder. Compare them.

 

[NAMICA]

How many missiles a Spyder launcher carries?

Role of QRSAM is equal to Spyder. Compare them.

This Israel fan following some times amazes me.

 

[flanker99]

I'm afraid your 'answer' doesn't adress the issue at all!!

My point was that, isn't the QRSAM based on the Astra AAM?? So it has to be smaller in comparison to the Barak 8 yet the land-based launcher carries 8 such missiles per vehicle. So why does the former system has a lesser number of missiles per vehicle when it's significantly smaller than the latter??

The same goes for the Pinaka rockets as well, which are definitely heftier than the QRSAM rounds yet each of the launchers carries 12 of them!! So why couldn't they pack at least a dozen smaller missiles in a launch vehicle??

If one launcher goes boom u lose 6 missiles but if u put more missiles per launcher well u lose more money per "boom" and considering our enemies present and future capabilities we should very expect to lose more than a few systems.
As for mrsam it was designed from the get go with 8 missile batteries i guess they didn't want to change that in ground version.Just my 2 cents

 

[ArgonPrime]

If one launcher goes boom u lose 6 missiles but if u put more missiles per launcher well u lose more money per "boom" and considering our enemies present and future capabilities we should very expect to lose more than a few systems.

On the flip side of that argument, having fewer missiles per launcher means they will run out more quickly as well, leaving themselves and the assets they were supposed to protect at the mercy of the opponent, ever thought of that??

 

[ArgonPrime]

How many missiles a Spyder launcher carries?

Role of QRSAM is equal to Spyder. Compare them.

Why do we need to follow others all the freaking time??

 

[NAMICA]

On the flip side of that argument, having fewer missiles per launcher means they will run out more quickly as well, leaving themselves and the assets they were supposed to protect at the mercy of the opponent, ever thought of that??

No our SAM systems will not be deployed stand alone they will be integrated.

 

[NAMICA]

Why do we need to follow others all the freaking time??

Exactly you countered your own question.