DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Illusive]

Sure and end up in the same mess with regards to ToT plaguing T90 , Su30 etc

And importantly loose independence and the ability to scale up when required .

Sovereignty of technology is paramount to winning wars . Why do think India has to think twice inorder to repell territorial aggression ?

Because 60-70% of our military equipments are foreign and dependent on foreign supply chain . Our stocks of war time wastage reserves for spares etc for the foreign weapons are very low and will always be low and a hanging noose around our neck during times of need .

Why do you think foreign countries like Russia exert so much influence in our deliberations ( behind the public glare ) ?

Because they got our military by their necks

Behind all the bonhomie of friendship the harsh reality is we are being milked dry and nothing but a monkey dancing to their tune.

Why do you think the urgency behind testing all the weapons post Chinese aggression ?

What was the role of Russians post Chinese aggression ?

What did our dunderhead military realise finally with respect to their existing capabilities to put china at risk conventionally and hence the urgency ?

Today I will tell you the reality incase nobody realised it till now , we do not have the parity , even 50% in terms of conventional weapon systems which can engage Chinese beyond 100 km forget 300, 600 km in large numbers in order to win a war convincingly . Conventional warfare in modern times has to done at both tactical and strategic levels concurrently. One cannot control outcome at tactical level without the ability to control outcome at strategic level and vice versa . Even if we win at tactical levels , defeat at strategic levels negates any victory at tactical levels.

Our conventional capability at strategic level is next to zero ( literally )

And which country will help us to fill this void ?
Nobody

And ToT is nothing but a scam. Nobody in their right mind let's go of their golden goose. Russia is not to be blamed , they are simply doing business , India or rather short sighted Indians are to be blamed.

Ruskies are struggling to keep their legacy influence. Its a slow rot like UK. Putin did a good turnaround of the Russian MID but the production rate of their new equipment like Armata is abysmal. They need orders badly. I don't think any major purchases would be made from Russia anymore except for the already purchased parts.

The next 10 years is a transition period for not just Indian military but also Indian MID. I cannot emphasis more on this, but the procurement policy needs to change. Its broken, it doesn't work. It just goes on and on forever which escalates the costs, there is no addition of equipment and after a few ears a new RFP is proposed because the technological requirements have shot up or some other factors. Its a joke really.

 

[Swiftfarts]

Ruskies are struggling to keep their legacy influence. Its a slow rot like UK. Putin did a good turnaround of the Russian MID but the production rate of their new equipment like Armata is abysmal. They need orders badly. I don't think any major purchases would be made from Russia anymore except for the already purchased parts.

The next 10 years is a transition period for not just Indian military but also Indian MID. I cannot emphasis more on this, but the procurement policy needs to change. Its broken, it doesn't work. It just goes on and on forever which escalates the costs, there is no addition of equipment and after a few ears a new RFP is proposed because the technological requirements have shot up or some other factors. Its a joke really.

First batch of crew for Armata has already gone training this year , they have already set a training institute in two of there military schools to train crews for the whole upcoming armata platform from 2021 onwards. I don't know where you getting that russian are struggling. Must be those dalal source i think .
https://www.armyrecognition.com/def...ors_of_t-14_and_t-15_armata_vehicles.amp.html

 

[Illusive]

First batch of crew for Armata has already gone training this year , they have already set a training institute in two of there military schools to train crews for the whole upcoming armata platform from 2021 onwards. I don't know where you getting that russian are struggling. Must be those dalal source i think .
https://www.armyrecognition.com/def...ors_of_t-14_and_t-15_armata_vehicles.amp.html

Lol if I am supporting Indian equipment I am a dalal or I get info from dalal sources. Go read again what I said in my previous and tell me how many Russian wanted to produce Armata and how many are they actually producing. They can open the schools with a hundred tanks for all they want, but they "WANTED" to produce over 2000, but they cant do it now can they

 

[Swiftfarts]

Lol if I am supporting Indian equipment I am a dalal or I get info from dalal sources. Go read again what I said in my previous and tell me how many Russian wanted to produce Armata and how many are they actually producing. They can open the schools with a hundred tanks for all they want, but they "WANTED" to produce over 2000, but they cant do it now can they

Production run is happening for armata platform maybe not 2000+ but it is happening. You don't open training institute for propaganda purpose.
Oil prices have not crash that much to hurt Russians economically. It's still 40 USD a barrel.

 

[porky_kicker]

L70 gunnery trainer

 

[porky_kicker]

A pinaka round

 

[porky_kicker]

Ruskies are struggling to keep their legacy influence. Its a slow rot like UK. Putin did a good turnaround of the Russian MID but the production rate of their new equipment like Armata is abysmal. They need orders badly. I don't think any major purchases would be made from Russia anymore except for the already purchased parts.

The next 10 years is a transition period for not just Indian military but also Indian MID. I cannot emphasis more on this, but the procurement policy needs to change. Its broken, it doesn't work. It just goes on and on forever which escalates the costs, there is no addition of equipment and after a few ears a new RFP is proposed because the technological requirements have shot up or some other factors. Its a joke really.

Mindset of the nation has to change to -> Nationalism -> Hindu Nationalism which will result in an effort on every concerned individuals to actually work for the good of the country .

Otherwise same old same old like the last 70 years. Anybody who works only to earn money his / her effort will be mediocre . Add pride and nationalism , then see the magic. Policies etc will not be a barrier then. Otherwise even if good policies are bought about people will regressive mindset will not change , they will find ways to bypass it as usual. Its the people who matter at the end of the day , bad policies etc are just an excuse.

 

[JBH22]

Ruskies are struggling to keep their legacy influence. Its a slow rot like UK. Putin did a good turnaround of the Russian MID but the production rate of their new equipment like Armata is abysmal. They need orders badly. I don't think any major purchases would be made from Russia anymore except for the already purchased parts.

The next 10 years is a transition period for not just Indian military but also Indian MID. I cannot emphasis more on this, but the procurement policy needs to change. Its broken, it doesn't work. It just goes on and on forever which escalates the costs, there is no addition of equipment and after a few ears a new RFP is proposed because the technological requirements have shot up or some other factors. Its a joke really.

Your assumption lies that India plays catch up and build decent IFV or tank or any other weapon system. What you did not factor that Russian capacity to innovate and come up with platforms that offer superior performance.
Can you deliver an Armata style platforms in next decade I doubt it

 

[Illusive]

Your assumption lies that India plays catch up and build decent IFV or tank or any other weapon system. What you did not factor that Russian capacity to innovate and come up with platforms that offer superior performance.
Can you deliver an Armata style platforms in next decade I doubt it

Aren't you assuming the Russian platform is so much superior. India will start initially slow, but you just have to look at India's missile program/ Ship / Tejas , it started slow and now look at the dividends. there are so many offshoot products of a baseline variant. Innovation like the standoff land based Torpedoes have been a product of that dividends. What we need is products that based on our doctrine, not doctrine based on products which you are limited to when you have to import.

Our Armoured corps would be based on our terrain climate and doctrine, which would be better than anything we can import, better than what our enemies would be fielding.

 

[Chinmoy]

A pinaka round

View attachment 62619

What on earth is Restricted High Explosive warhead.

 

[JBH22]

Aren't you assuming the Russian platform is so much superior. India will start initially slow, but you just have to look at India's missile program/ Ship / Tejas , it started slow and now look at the dividends. there are so many offshoot products of a baseline variant. Innovation like the standoff land based Torpedoes have been a product of that dividends. What we need is products that based on our doctrine, not doctrine based on products which you are limited to when you have to import.

Our Armoured corps would be based on our terrain climate and doctrine, which would be better than anything we can import, better than what our enemies would be fielding.

My assumption is that Russkie RnD will not remain standstill, yes overtime our dependence on tactical weapons will decline but some weapons will still be imported. It will all depend on Russia ability to churn out new weapons system

 

[WARREN SS]

DRDO is a R&D organization and no private company can come close to it in terms of R&D even in the next 100 years . That's the harsh reality.

This One of the Most Myopic And ill-informed Post i have been through
Its Time To expose What DRDO Does in reality

R&D is not Pandora's Box Which one cannot open
If you have Money To invest R&D.It can be gathered And Developed By Providing Infrastructure or Employing To End Brains of the World

Look around the world and see the top defence companies with own large scale R&D . Boeing , LM , Mitsubishi , Hanwha , Sukhoi , Mig , BAE , Leonardo , GM etc are top notch in R&D now because they invested in the same since last 50 years or so . Only then they are in a position to churn out competitive products with own IPR. They have pedigree .

This is Most easy Part for Multi billion $ Firm Like TATA
TATA can Buy Embraer And Can own its R&D Same Way Reliance did in pipavav defence
DRDO cannot Since It Budget Is
Just US$2.1 billion

If any private company had the capability to develop cruise missile engine with own IPR don't you think they would have intimated the same to DRDO who would have been more than happy to involve them or given them the task to develop the same .

GOI Maintained Monopoly In Strategic Affairs Never opened A Tender Competition Where DRDO has to compete With MNC giants like TATA ,Birla,Mahindra etc

And We are exposed Free market Economy in 1992 Remember

No need to make even the operational version of the cruise missile engine , one can even demonstrate their capabilities by developing a scaled down lab prototype which basically will cost nothing .
Has any company done so ?
No
Why not ?
Because technological pedigree is not available.

GOI never Asked for It
give One instance Where Govt asked Private Firms to build Agni missile For that matter They excluded Them Due to Nehruvian Socialism model Till Late 2000's

Its now Just after 2014 Private Firm took part in ASAT test And brahmos more



PS: DRDO 3 rd class Scientist Do Reverse engineering Of Russians And IAI Products Don't Tell me
they Did Real R&D

Name any Major DRDO Project Were They not Reverse engineered Russian & Israeli's products
I challenge you on that


Don't Defend Incompetency of Lethargic Bureaucracy of DRDO I can Put out Low End Startup in Europe Who can create better Drones than DRDO

Even Educational Institution Like MIT And Cal tech Design And develop better Stuff than DRDO
in less funds With College Undergraduates

 

[porky_kicker]

Proof of the pudding lies in eating it .

Anyways I gave my opinion based on my knowledge , for what it's worth.

If somebody doesn't agree with the same , please feel free to do so.

For me reader's ( janata ) janardan hai . If they agree with my POV fair enough , if they don't agree, fair enough. Either way none of my business.

Thank you

 

[WARREN SS]

Facts 90 % Of the Top Indian Brains goes Silicon valley Since 80's Because DRDO doesn't have Enough incentive Tap that talent

Who do you think can Tap that Amount of Monetary assets

Half of you on Will want to leave the country on US visa if Opportunity arises in future Be truthful to yourselves

What India Lacks To Appreciate real talent And Intellect
But What we Do is filled Our Strategic Institutions from the Products of affirmative action or in other word reservation.

DRDO is Socialist relic yes Its Improving but at Speed of Tortoise compared to Chinese Let Keep apart Western R&D institutions

My Words Seems hard to Swallow for many DFI fanboys' But We should better Keep ourselves grounded

 

[fire starter]

Facts 90 % Of the Top Indian Brains goes Silicon valley Since 80's Because DRDO doesn't have Enough incentive Tap that talent

Who do you think can Tap that Amount of Monetary assets

Half of you on Will want to leave the country on US visa if Opportunity arises in future Be truthful to yourselves

What India Lacks To Appreciate real talent And Intellect
But What we Do is filled Our Strategic Institutions from the Products of affirmative action or in other word reservation.

DRDO is Socialist relic yes Its Improving but at Speed of Tortoise compared to Chinese Let Keep apart Western R&D institutions

My Words Seems hard to Swallow for many DFI fanboys' But We should better Keep ourselves grounded

for that u need institutions drdo alone cannot do every thing plus u should also look at the R&D spending.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

My assumption is that Russkie RnD will not remain standstill, yes overtime our dependence on tactical weapons will decline but some weapons will still be imported. It will all depend on Russia ability to churn out new weapons system

We don't have any reason to assume that Russia's capacity to innovate will not deteriorate and get underfunded which will not be sufficient to keep up other major powers.

I do agree that India's dependence is although going to decline on Russia greatly in this decade. However, we are going to remain dependent on them for significant chunk. But again, no one refuted it at first place.

 

[fire starter]

We don't have any reason to assume that Russia's capacity to innovate will not deteriorate and get underfunded which will not be sufficient to keep up other major powers.

I do agree that India's dependence is although going to decline on Russia greatly in this decade. However, we are going to remain dependent on them for significant chunk. But again, no one refuted it at first place.

yes we will continue to do useless deals with Russia since we don't have any other options to diversify the trade. This military hardware diplomacy will never let us to become aatmnirbhar.

 

[Swiftfarts]

India dependency on Russians will increase going further not decrease , it's already increasing if one look at what we are buying and are going to buy in future lol.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

yes we will continue to do useless deals with Russia since we don't have any other options to diversify the trade. This military hardware diplomacy will never let us to become aatmnirbhar.

India's military self sufficiency has been on top of priorities for a while and at least won't be compromised for relations with a declining power with just 50% of India's economy.
We will still be dependent on them for another decade as we still struggle with certain techs.

 

[power_monger]

Proof of the pudding lies in eating it .

Anyways I gave my opinion based on my knowledge , for what it's worth.

If somebody doesn't agree with the same , please feel free to do so.

For me reader's ( janata ) janardan hai . If they agree with my POV fair enough , if they don't agree, fair enough. Either way none of my business.

Thank you

Ignore him. It's shamefull to have such senior members in forum. What research have Indian private companies done in areas it was allowed to do?These guys instead of removing bureaucratic hurdles, pumping more funds into research and test facilities , ,increasing orders think privatization will make India super power.

PS: Is there any single product we use in our daily life which Indian companies have invented ?