DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Assassin 2.0]

Very public, unprecedented war of words breaks out between Israel’s Rafael Defence and India’s
@DRDO_India
after former’s PR statement talks down the latter’s indigenous anti-tank missile program.

I'm lovin it.
DRDO replying back will create alot of questions for lot of people.
Looks like drdo is getting tired from getting bullied by everyone.
Indigenous Haters ki g*nd jall rhi hogi

 

[south block]

I'm lovin it.
DRDO replying back will create alot of questions for lot of people.
Looks like drdo is getting tired from getting bullied by everyone.
Indigenous Haters ki g*nd jall rhi hogi

Indian govt is a sell out look at so called JV of Rafael with Kalyani... nothing but screw driving & making sure money reaches in hand of few shareholders who will take that money out of India in no time.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Indian govt is a sell out look at so called JV of Rafael with Kalyani... nothing but screw driving & making sure money reaches in hand of few shareholders who will take that money out of India in no time.

Actually government is willing to utilize both private and public sector.
HAL and drdo and other agencies have tons of orders already. Government of india Have already spend billions in HAL.
Technically the best thing for india is having multiple private + public firms doing business together to create cutting edge technology. If we think that only public sector can do it alone then it's impossible.
Organizations like drdo should be tasked to create futuristic and elite technology meanwhile private sector should be tasked with manufacturing and r&d in low grade easier stuff.
Many big firms are working under india actively promoting economic growth and providing job to lakhs of people.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Indian govt is a sell out look at so called JV of Rafael with Kalyani... nothing but screw driving & making sure money reaches in hand of few shareholders who will take that money out of India in no time.

Drdo itself learned how to develop swordfish radar from Israel.

 

[Haldiram]

Indian govt is a sell out look at so called JV of Rafael with Kalyani... nothing but screw driving & making sure money reaches in hand of few shareholders who will take that money out of India in no time.

The PSUs had like 70 years to become whatever they wished to become. The country has only recently started asking them questions about how the exchequer's money was spent and produced nothing significant all these years and let the country fall behind in the defense tech race.

Even the Russians, Israelis and Chinese stole designs through honey trapping and corporate espionage. Once a task is given to an org, it's up to them to execute it. Defense PSUs and IAF fought amongst themselves and that's why we are in this uncomfortable situation today where, forget about selling defense equipment, we have to yield our money to buy foreign stuff to defend ourselves. Right from Chacha Nehru's nationalization push, the PSUs had complete authority to hire the best talent, give them the highest salary and had unlimited resources at their disposal. They didn't do jack shit with the blank cheque they were given, so we have to import now.

HAL had successfully launched Marut, which the IAF cunningly killed. Now they want the exchequer to gift them 126 imported Rafales. It's the PSUs who are doing crony capitalism for their sales commissions. The Indian private JV partners are actually helping build spares inside India and cut the cost of import wherever possible.

 

[south block]

They had like 70 years to become whatever they wished to become. The country has only recently started asking them questions about how the exchequer's money was spent and produced nothing significant all these years and let the country lose out in the defense tech race.

Even the Russians, Israelis and Chinese stole designs through honey trapping and corporate espionage. Once a task is given to an org, it's up to them to execute it. Defense PSUs and IAF fought amongst themselves and that's why we are in this uncomfortable situation today where, forget about selling defense equipment, we have to yield our money to buy foreign stuff to defend ourselves. Right from Chacha Nehru's nationalization push, the PSUs had complete authority to hire the best talent, give them the highest salary and had unlimited resources at their disposal. They didn't do jack shit with the blank cheque they were given, so we have to import now. Ain't nobady gon give them another blank cheque now.

HAL had successfully launched Marut, which the IAF cunningly killed. Now they want the exchequer to gift them 126 imported Rafales. It's the PSUs who are doing crony capitalism.

so what mighty technological marvel Pvt sector has build other than screw driving foreign maal or licensing from Govt & claiming it to be indigenous. every little bit things we have built in this country from missile's to space equipment's to nut & bolt's to medicine to idli dosa machine etc is due to govt institutions---- If contribution is in the field of looting India & taking money abroad than I must say no one can match looser's in Pvt sector.

 

[Haldiram]

so what mighty technological marvel Pvt sector has build other than screw driving foreign maal or licensing from Govt & claiming it to be indigenous. every little bit things we have built in this country from missile's to space equipment's to nut & bolt's to medicine to idli dosa machine etc is due to govt institutions---- If contribution is in the field of looting India & taking money abroad than I must say no one can match looser's in Pvt sector.

Private sector isn't a mad scientist like Tony Stark with unlimited money who will build an Iron Man suit out of their spare time and money. They are contractual manufacturers. You tell them to make scissors, springs, ball bearings, suspension, engines they'll make that and put it together for you on an invoice. You want them to build an aircraft carrier on their own funding and then gift it to you for free? first you have to place an order, then they will build. Currently they are incapable of building complex systems so the GOI is only placing an order for the spare parts they are able to build.

The gormint had placed a fully paid order for 1 LCA fighter 30 years ago and the PSU still hasn't been able to deliver that order. << This is the primary reason for the GOI wanting to encourage the private sector to build alternate capability. If your PSUs had satisfied the country's needs, we wouldn't be looking elsewhere.

How do you think America's private sector became so big? their gormint kept outsourcing them small manufacturing tasks since the World War and decades later they have started building complex systems on their own. That's what GOI is doing as well. They are giving small spare parts, nuts and bolts projects for the industry to gain experience and build their own assembly line. One has to start somewhere. Let the PSUs build critical tech like missile seekers and warheads and keep the tech a guarded national secret, but there's no reason why a cylindrical metal pipe for the missile and gun barrel also needs to be made by a PSU?

 

[Assassin 2.0]

UPDATE.................

 

[south block]

Private sector isn't a mad scientist like Tony Stark with unlimited money who will build an Iron Man suit out of their spare time and money. They are contractual manufacturers. You tell them to make scissors, springs, ball bearings, suspension, engines they'll make that and put it together for you on an invoice. You want them to build an aircraft carrier on their own funding and then gift it to you for free? first you have to place an order, then they will build. Currently they are incapable of building complex systems so the GOI is only placing an order for the spare parts they are able to build.

The gormint had placed a fully paid order for 1 LCA fighter 30 years ago and the PSU still hasn't been able to deliver that order. << This is the primary reason for the GOI wanting to look for alternate providers in the private sector. If your PSUs had satisfied the country's needs, we wouldn't be looking elsewhere.

How do you think America's private sector became so big? their gormint kept outsourcing them small manufacturing tasks since the World War and decades later they have started building complex systems on their own. That's what GOI is doing as well. They are giving small spare parts, nuts and bolts projects for the industry to gain experience and build their own assembly line. One has to start somewhere. Let the PSUs build critical tech like missile seekers and warheads and keep the tech a guarded national secret, but there's no reason why a cylindrical metal pipe for the missile also needs to be made by a PSU?

This is complete BS ---- It's not Indian govt problem if Chetoos sellers doesn't have industrial capabilities for complex manufacturing --- govt & it's state owned enterprise is responsible for it's people not to teach few fat rich fcks how to make quick bucks on work of others---pvt sector can come up with there own R&D & IPR.... Public money is for public institutions period.
I am sure they can come up with earth shattering screw driving tech in no time like they always have lol.

 

[Haldiram]

This is complete BS ---- It's not Indian govt problem if Chetoos sellers doesn't have industrial capabilities for complex manufacturing --- govt & it's state owned enterprise is responsible for it's people not to teach few fat rich fcks how to make quick bucks on work of others---pvt sector can come up with there own R&D & IPR.... Public money is for public institutions period.
I am sure they can come up with earth shattering screw driving tech in no time like they always have lol.

The gormint has an obligation to cultivate alternate capability and award contracts to the lowest bidders to safeguard public money. Allowing a PSU monopoly to create a single bidder scenario doesn't get us the lowest bidder. There is no technology that was funded by taxpayer money which is being transferred to any private company. The PSUs continue to hold all IPRs over whatever they invented. The private companies are just making spare parts from whatever manufacturing knowledge they already have. Which critical tech needs to be transferred to make a barrel of a gun? it's just a metal pipe, for fucks sake.

No one is taking any tech from the PSUs, and no one is taking any money from PSUs either. On the contrary, the public is GIVING more of their own hard earned money to the PSUs through the ETF funds, in addition to the tax money on which the PSU is already running. The public continues to be the owner of the PSU, not 'Cheetoos sellerz'. Pre-divestment, the revenues remained on the books of the PSUs. Post-divestment, the citizens will get dividends from it. Public money is being used to run public companies and dividends are being given to public. Where's Cheetooz sellers in this? Those PSU stocks are also in your NPS portfolio, go check.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

This is complete BS ---- It's not Indian govt problem if Chetoos sellers doesn't have industrial capabilities for complex manufacturing --- govt & it's state owned enterprise is responsible for it's people not to teach few fat rich fcks how to make quick bucks on work of others---pvt sector can come up with there own R&D & IPR.... Public money is for public institutions period.
I am sure they can come up with earth shattering screw driving tech in no time like they always have lol.

For a fact just because of lack competence from PSU side government of india have to beg all over the globe to get some technology.
From PSU point of view we will fight Chinese with T-72 and third grade insas rifles and other vintage soviet systems.
Drdo can build prototype of a world class gun but can any OFB manufacturer build it flawlessly?

Every single time india have to beg outside for weapons is because of incompetence in home remember it. And for past 70 years private sector was not allowed to test fire rounds of artillery leave building missiles.

 

[south block]

but there's no reason why a cylindrical metal pipe for the missile also needs to be made by a PSU?

this is not for you to decide, if they have done R&D to build it using public money than state enterprise or PSU have sole right over it not some chetoos sellers period.

The gormint has an obligation to cultivate alternate capability and award contracts to the lowest bidders to safeguard public money. Allowing a PSU monopoly doesn't get us the lowest bidder. There is no technology that was funded by taxpayer money which is being transferred to any private company. The PSUs continue to hold all IPRs over whatever they invented. The private companies are just making spare parts from whatever manufacturing knowledge they already have. Which critical tech needs to be transferred to make a barrel of a gun? it's just a metal pipe, for fucks sake.

No it's not just a metal pipe... special allows & metallurgy is used in construction of those barrel & that requires R&D & that R&D is done using public money so no. Chetoos sellers doesn't have any say in manufacturing or selling of product period.

 

[south block]

For a fact just because of lack competence from PSU side government of india have to beg all over the globe to get some technology.
From PSU point of view we will fight Chinese with T-72 and third grade insas rifles and other vintage soviet systems.
Drdo can build prototype of a world class gun but can any OFB manufacturer build it flawlessly?

Every single time india have to beg outside for weapons is because of incompetence in home remember it. And for past 70 years private sector was not allowed to test fire rounds of artillery leave building missiles.

More BS....Pvt sector can't build anything which PSU or state enterprise can't & they can build much more. this country is not personal jagir of few get it in your head please.

 

[Haldiram]

this is not for you to decide, if they have done R&D to build it using public money than state enterprise or PSU have sole right over it not some chetoos sellers period.

No it's not just a metal pipe... special allows & metallurgy is used in construction of those barrel & that requires R&D & that R&D is done using public money so no. Chetoos sellers doesn't have any say in manufacturing or selling of product period.

No tech was transferred between any PSU to any private company. Baba Kalyani figured out the metallurgy for the gun barrel himself.

 

[Suryavanshi]

LMAO this is gold.
@Haldiram BTFO to govement job ****** @south block

Nigga PSU is well pampered child of gov which most of the time doesn't amount to shit, while private sector is neglected adopted child which still manages to do better without the government privilege.

 

[ezsasa]

For a fact just because of lack competence from PSU side government of india have to beg all over the globe to get some technology.
From PSU point of view we will fight Chinese with T-72 and third grade insas rifles and other vintage soviet systems.
Drdo can build prototype of a world class gun but can any OFB manufacturer build it flawlessly?

Every single time india have to beg outside for weapons is because of incompetence in home remember it. And for past 70 years private sector was not allowed to test fire rounds of artillery leave building missiles.

The primary reason why countries which make good weapons, is because they are the ones which go on a military expedition somewhere in the world every decade.

Without wars to test new weapons, there can be no MIC.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

The primary reason why countries which make good weapons, is because they are the ones which go on a military expedition somewhere in the world every decade.

Without wars to test new weapons, there can be no MIC.

Yes i agree with this.
One of the biggest objective of Afghanistan war was to enhance military capabilities and boost American companies by giving them more business and tuning their system according to different climatic conditions. To make it easier to sell.

But in our case things are totally different few years back we were not good with even the basic things. Such as artillery ATGMS we still don't have a indigenous tank infantry support vehicles. Etc even the Pakistani OFB can compete with ours.
And this is the condition when we are most of the time at war with our close neighbor Pakistan and facing much advanced threats on eastern borders.
India constantly does many military exercises to keep up to date.
But in past because of chor government and lack of support from armed forces kept us away from testing and development of systems.
But now things are changed.

Waiting for the best doesn’t work, we will take what you produce, Vice Chief of Army assures industry
Referring to a long standing dilemma for the domestic defence development ecosystem, Lt Gen MM Naravane said that `best’ cannot be the enemy of the `good’ and unless systems are inducted and used in the field, they cannot be improved to global standards.


In my mind DRDO should focus only on elite stuff such as radars engines etc and simpler stuff should be created by private sector. DRDO have best minds of india and they are working hard but i do think load from them should be divided and management issues need to be resolved.

 

[Suryavanshi]

100 years of making guns and weapons.
Pampered by British masters than Indian Government.
Over 100 factories and multiple workshop.
27000 workers just like @south block.
Multiple R&D centres.
Billions worth of funds.
Billions worth of assets.
Well established infrastructure.
Political support.
Everything they could've ever wanted.


What do they build.

Lmao jams in cold temperature, ugly looking piece of shit, a bloody 10 th century khukri is more reliable.

Vs


Started out as a nut and bolt company.
No help from government.
Probably less net worth than 50 million $
Two or three factories at most.
Invest their own money for R&D
No previous experience.
No political support.
Gov job ******s don't want them to exist.

What do they produce.

While the a rifle vs sniper comparison may not be fair it still proves my point

 

[Holy Triad]

Yes i agree with this.
One of the biggest objective of Afghanistan war was to enhance military capabilities and boost American companies by giving them more business and tuning their system according to different climatic conditions. To make it easier to sell.

But in our case things are totally different few years back we were not good with even the basic things. Such as artillery ATGMS we still don't have a indigenous tank infantry support vehicles. Etc even the Pakistani OFB can compete with ours.
And this is the condition when we are most of the time at war with our close neighbor Pakistan and facing much advanced threats on eastern borders.
India constantly does many military exercises to keep up to date.
But in past because of chor government and lack of support from armed forces kept us away from testing and development of systems.
But now things are changed.

Waiting for the best doesn’t work, we will take what you produce, Vice Chief of Army assures industry
Referring to a long standing dilemma for the domestic defence development ecosystem, Lt Gen MM Naravane said that `best’ cannot be the enemy of the `good’ and unless systems are inducted and used in the field, they cannot be improved to global standards.


In my mind DRDO should focus only on elite stuff such as radars engines etc and simpler stuff should be created by private sector. DRDO have best minds of india and they are working hard but i do think load from them should be divided and management issues need to be resolved.

Plus,we must consider establishing a parallel financial structure to support our endeavours(especially on expensive,bleeding edge tech).
For example,
"The IAF owes HAL money for aircraft, helicopters and services that we have already delivered. Current dues are at Rs 15,700 crore and will rise to Rs 20,000 crore by March 31.”


https://wap.business-standard.com/a...er-iaf-still-to-pay-bills-119040200020_1.html


Such dues directly affect the sme's tasked with building indigenous products.


Saurav jha aptly put it here,

Debt-deflation feeds debt-deflation.

India must cancel wasteful arms imports as well as import supporting direct-benefit transfer schemes and find the fiscal space for a stimulus.
Also an asset reconstruction company must be launched. It can be partly capitalized by RBI.



@Haldiram does it makes sense(fiscally) to create such institutions?

 

[Haldiram]

Plus,we must consider establishing a parallel financial structure to support our endeavours(especially on expensive,bleeding edge tech).
For example,
"The IAF owes HAL money for aircraft, helicopters and services that we have already delivered. Current dues are at Rs 15,700 crore and will rise to Rs 20,000 crore by March 31.”


https://wap.business-standard.com/a...er-iaf-still-to-pay-bills-119040200020_1.html


Such dues directly affect the sme's tasked with building indigenous products.


Saurav jha aptly put it here,

Debt-deflation feeds debt-deflation.

India must cancel wasteful arms imports as well as import supporting direct-benefit transfer schemes and find the fiscal space for a stimulus.
Also an asset reconstruction company must be launched. It can be partly capitalized by RBI.



@Haldiram does it makes sense(fiscally) to create such institutions?

Nah, in the guise of giving a solution, he is still perpetuating the old system of the gormint being the mai-baap and doing everything with the exchequer's money without the exchequer getting anything in return. If they want money, they can issue bonds and let people voluntarily lend money to the government, unlike the super-daddy financial institution he is suggesting, which will ultimately be funded by those unfortunate tax payers who happen to fall in the tax net, and they will get nothing from it, so again a few will end up paying to bailout the rest.