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Corvus Splendens

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Arjun Mk1A has Containerised Bins with Individual armoured shutters

View attachment 258731
These are not adequate. We need proper blast proof doors separating crew from stowage.

What about the hull ammo stowage, where the bulk of the rounds are stored??
Hull ammo stowage on Arjun is the same, containerized. But encased within a fuel tank, like what the British do. Again an unreliable and inadequate choice.
1718898669868.png
 

Blood+

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These are not adequate. We need proper blast proof doors separating crew from stowage.
We need an autoloader in the bustle, period. Oh, and we most definitely need non-sensitive propellant charges, like the Germans.

Hull ammo stowage on Arjun is the same, containerized. But encased within a fuel tank, like what the British do. Again an unreliable and inadequate choice.
View attachment 258733
I know, that's why I put forth that question to him. Although, I'd say it's still a marginally better configuration than that of 99% of the current generation MBTs.
 

vishnugupt

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The 40 something year old uprated 1400hp MTU 838 V10 dinosaur (originally used on the Leopard 1) that no longer has OEM support (The 1500hp DATRAN V-12 should be used to upgrade the entire fleet). The outdated 120mm rifled gun limits ammunition compatibility and wears out the barrel faster. Alleged lack of a good APDS penetrator capable of punching through 990mm RHA equivalent at a kilometer plus. 68 tons of tank with inferior frontal protection than equivalents like M1A2 or Chally 2, but also limiting it's deployment scenario due to the weight. Lack of true blow out panels for ammo stowage on both turret and hull. Containerized ammo bins won't prevent a cook-off. Inadequate side protection on both turret and hull, resulting in any hit beyond a frontal 30 degree arc being risky. Uncooled low res thermal sights in this day and age on a frontline MBT is not desirable either. The Abrams for example have had a high res cooled commander's thermal sight for nearly 20 years. There's more stuff I'm forgetting right now.
So tank should have built according to your personal choice rather than Army requirements?? Show me when did army gave requirements of what you are talking about??


Please, Answer these queries as well...
1) British Challanger also use riffled gun,.
2) Abram is more heavier than Arjun.
3) T-90 don't have containerised ammo bin.
4) None of westen tank deployable in Ukraine due to weight.
5) None of westen tank survived a single drone attack in Ukraine despite of best protection. All blown up in single shot.
 

Corvus Splendens

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So tank should have built according to your personal choice rather than Army requirements?? Show me when did army gave requirements of what you are talking about??


Please, Answer these queries as well...
1) British Challanger also use riffled gun,.
2) Abram is more heavier than Arjun.
3) T-90 don't have containerised ammo bin.
4) None of westen tank deployable in Ukraine due to weight.
5) None of westen tank survived a single drone attack in Ukraine despite of best protection. All blown up in single shot.
1. Not anymore. The Brits are going for smoothbore in a fleet wide retrofit.
2. The M1A2 without the SEP package weighs the same, while being significantly better armored frontally.
3. T-90 is a worse deathtrap.
4. Ukraine and our use case is different. Arjun was fielded in consideration of Thar's terrain.
5. By this stupid logic, tanks should be discontinued. A better armored tank is always better, as most of the threats it meets come from direct fire.

Don't confuse a sensible criticism for "personal choice". If the army didn't have a well thought out requirement speccing, then they are shortsighted, not my problem.
 

vishnugupt

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1. Not anymore. The Brits are going for smoothbore in a fleet wide retrofit.
2. The M1A2 without the SEP package weighs the same, while being significantly better armored frontally.
3. T-90 is a worse deathtrap.
4. Ukraine and our use case is different. Arjun was fielded in consideration of Thar's terrain.
5. By this stupid logic, tanks should be discontinued. A better armored tank is always better, as most of the threats it meets come from direct fire.

Don't confuse a sensible criticism for "personal choice". If the army didn't have a well thought out requirement speccing, then they are shortsighted, not my problem.
1) so Chalanger was never a inferior tank due to its riffled gun then why Arjun is inferior??

2) Abraham weight equal to Arjun but why only Arjun is overweight??

3) T-90 is a death trap?? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
The only tank which is winning war and proved it's metal in real battle is Death trap?? Did Russian ministry told this over phone??

Despite of half advance as Arjun, T-90 is a world best tank proven on battle field.

4) When Western tank failed in Ukraine it's a different scenario but Arjun faile in special terrain then it's failure. Why so hippocrisy bro?

5) But still none survived, this could also mean that there are limitations for all machine that doesn't necessarily means they are inferior.

If Army missed then it's not mistake its requirement which you don't want to accept because your love with wonderwaffe. Every army work according to its budget you can't have fancy toys every next day.

So Arjun is not inferior or superior. It is what it was asked by Indian army Generals.
 

Corvus Splendens

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1) so Chalanger was never a inferior tank due to its riffled gun then why Arjun is inferior??

2) Abraham weight equal to Arjun but why only Arjun is overweight??

3) T-90 is a death trap?? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
The only tank which is winning war and proved it's metal in real battle is Death trap?? Did Russian ministry told this over phone??

Despite of half advance as Arjun, T-90 is a world best tank proven on battle field.

4) When Western tank failed in Ukraine it's a different scenario but Arjun faile in special terrain then it's failure. Why so hippocrisy bro?

5) But still none survived, this could also mean that there are limitations for all machine that doesn't necessarily means they are inferior.

If Army missed then it's not mistake its requirement which you don't want to accept because your love with wonderwaffe. Every army work according to its budget you can't have fancy toys every next day.

So Arjun is not inferior or superior. It is what it was asked by Indian army Generals.
1718916523427.jpeg
 

Love Charger

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1) so Chalanger was never a inferior tank due to its riffled gun then why Arjun is inferior??

2) Abraham weight equal to Arjun but why only Arjun is overweight??

3) T-90 is a death trap?? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
The only tank which is winning war and proved it's metal in real battle is Death trap?? Did Russian ministry told this over phone??

Despite of half advance as Arjun, T-90 is a world best tank proven on battle field.

4) When Western tank failed in Ukraine it's a different scenario but Arjun faile in special terrain then it's failure. Why so hippocrisy bro?

5) But still none survived, this could also mean that there are limitations for all machine that doesn't necessarily means they are inferior.

If Army missed then it's not mistake its requirement which you don't want to accept because your love with wonderwaffe. Every army work according to its budget you can't have fancy toys every next day.

So Arjun is not inferior or superior. It is what it was asked by Indian army Generals.
Western tanks failed in ookraina because of low numbers.
Simple it's is , field equal numbers of Abrams or any western tank and equal no of t 90 .
T 90s will.be massacred.
Ookraina was part of soviet union , thus the production plant of t 62 and t 80 tank was present there , which they are using in numbers.
Also it's Russian artillery, and electronic warfare along with use of uavs which is essentially winning them wars.
T 90 is a deathtrap because it probably won't even give the chance to the Crew to abandon thier tank.
 

vishnugupt

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Western tanks failed in ookraina because of low numbers.
Simple it's is , field equal numbers of Abrams or any western tank and equal no of t 90 .
T 90s will.be massacred.
Ookraina was part of soviet union , thus the production plant of t 62 and t 80 tank was present there , which they are using in numbers.
Also it's Russian artillery, and electronic warfare along with use of uavs which is essentially winning them wars.
T 90 is a deathtrap because it probably won't even give the chance to the Crew to abandon thier tank.
I know how painful it is to shad off their love to wonderwaffe. You are not alone.

First, you don't evaluate tank capability by pitting them against each other. You evaluate tank capability wheather they able to support infantry in battle or not.

Western wonderwaffe (Tanks ) heavily used in many of Ukrainian offence. Unfortunately none has performed as what Brown Sipoy has been telling us from years.

On the Other hand, there are countless occasion where T-90 has performed exceptionally.

No matter how many times a day you repeat death- trap death -trap in a day. T-90 tank so far performing best among Wonderwaffe.
 

SwordOfDarkness

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I know how painful it is to shad off their love to wonderwaffe. You are not alone.

First, you don't evaluate tank capability by pitting them against each other. You evaluate tank capability wheather they able to support infantry in battle or not.

Western wonderwaffe (Tanks ) heavily used in many of Ukrainian offence. Unfortunately none has performed as what Brown Sipoy has been telling us from years.

On the Other hand, there are countless occasion where T-90 has performed exceptionally.

No matter how many times a day you repeat death- trap death -trap in a day. T-90 tank so far performing best among Wonderwaffe.
T90M, not T90, which has the important improvement of moving loose ammo into bustle. Else carrying greater than 22 rounds is death sentence.
 

Smoothbore125mm

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T90M, not T90, which has the important improvement of moving loose ammo into bustle. Else carrying greater than 22 rounds is death sentence.
bruv t90m is a great tonk tbh get a aps on it would make it one of the best tank in the world its survivability is okay its darn cheap 4.5 million a piece while the m10 booker is 13 million a piece so we get 3 t90m for an m10 while M1A2 SEP v3 costs 9-10 million so you get 2 t90m for it too apart its reverse speed t90m is a formidable equipment in sheer numbers
 

SwordOfDarkness

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bruv t90m is a great tonk tbh get a aps on it would make it one of the best tank in the world its survivability is okay its darn cheap 4.5 million a piece while the m10 booker is 13 million a piece so we get 3 t90m for an m10 while M1A2 SEP v3 costs 9-10 million so you get 2 t90m for it too apart its reverse speed t90m is a formidable equipment in sheer numbers
Imo its an exceptional improvement over T90, especially since you can do it as an upgrade package. Easily beats most western tanks.

T90M+APS from light tank would be a worthwhile upgrade for our T90s while we build the T72 replacement. More so if they can modify commanders gun to do anti drone defense using aps radars + opticals.
 

Chinmoy

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All these turrets were not there when stryker was first inducted. Same can be done with indian IFVs though it will take time just as it did for stryker.
MGS version of Stryker is 20 ton. Battle weight would be around 24 ton.

Weight of WhAP without turret is 24 ton. What do you think its weight would be with turret like this?
 

AnantS

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MGS version of Stryker is 20 ton. Battle weight would be around 24 ton.

Weight of WhAP without turret is 24 ton. What do you think its weight would be with turret like this?
Does stryker have water wading capability as whap?
 

Smoothbore125mm

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MGS version of Stryker is 20 ton. Battle weight would be around 24 ton.

Weight of WhAP without turret is 24 ton. What do you think its weight would be with turret like this?
i think the lifting capasity of c 130 is 19.8 tonnes so striker can be airlifted too from it while baseline whap cant be
 

Corvus Splendens

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MGS version of Stryker is 20 ton. Battle weight would be around 24 ton.

Weight of WhAP without turret is 24 ton. What do you think its weight would be with turret like this?
Weight is exactly why the M1128 MGS failed. With the 105mm autoloaded gun turret it reached the max load bearing capacity of the chassis. Hence they couldn't fit additional armor on it. The autoloader takes up too much dead space and the gun has limited traverse angles and even more limited firing angles. Limited space inside also meant that the cooling system was inadequate and it was a sauna inside during ops. A 105mm mobile gun attracts too much attention, and this thing has fuckall armor, unreliable autoloader and limited firing capabilities. I suspect the WhAP will go through similar issues if a 105mm autoloaded gun turret is selected. There won't be any capacity left to give them frontal protection against 30mm autocannons at the least.
 

Darkindie

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MGS version of Stryker is 20 ton. Battle weight would be around 24 ton.

Weight of WhAP without turret is 24 ton. What do you think its weight would be with turret like this?
Can't say exactly but depending upon the turret around 30 tons.
Beyond protoype and testing, induction of WHAPS based mgs seems highly unlikely.
 

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