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jai jaganath

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How is this report supporting screw driver giri ? Can someone please explain ? And how does this effect DCPP ? Genuinely want to know ! From what I understood, the article didn't mention any negatives about the committee ?
Kya app ban hue bande se puch rahe ho
Anyways
We have discussed this topic in page no 2413
This is my post

Anyway thing is those changes will be applied which has been accepted by drdo and committee
 

Corvus Splendens

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Its not the best, but definitely not as worst as media makes it to be.
Armchair guppies on Youtube and Reddit are largely responsible for the bad press.
"Boohoo Indian tonk bad, has weakspots - shitstains like Redeffect".
Nevermind that tanks with much more glaring weakspots, similar or inferior armor remain in active service everywhere (Type 96/99, Type 10, most of the T-series and their eastern european variants, Altay, Ariete, Leclerc, etc.).
1718871260692.png
 

Chinmoy

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Armchair guppies on Youtube and Reddit are largely responsible for the bad press.
"Boohoo Indian tonk bad, has weakspots - shitstains like Redeffect".
Nevermind that tanks with much more glaring weakspots, similar or inferior armor remain in active service everywhere (Type 96/99, Type 10, most of the T-series and their eastern european variants, Altay, Ariete, Leclerc, etc.).
View attachment 258692
Arjun do have some inherit issue which can't be brushed under the rag.
 

Darkindie

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Stryker will not happen , the reason why US is pushing hard:
1. Large order for wheeled ifv from indian military.
2. Subversion of domestic industry (helpful in international market).
3. US thinks engine tot will work as pressure point.
Although stryker can have a similar case like drishti 10 but chances of that don't seem high.
 

jai jaganath

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Stryker will not happen , the reason why US is pushing hard:
1. Large order for wheeled ifv from indian military.
2. Subversion of domestic industry (helpful in international market).
3. US thinks engine tot will work as pressure point.
Although stryker can have a similar case like drishti 10 but chances of that don't seem high.
It's being procured in small number firstin order to set benchmarks for tata and Mahindra whap
Eventually when supply chain and logistics is established larger nos will be procured just like drishti
As further larger orders of drishti is also on table of defence ministry
 

Darkindie

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It's being procured in small number firstin order to set benchmarks for tata and Mahindra whap
Eventually when supply chain and logistics is established larger nos will be procured just like drishti
As further larger orders of drishti is also on table of defence ministry
Logic of benchmarking drishti 10 does not apply to wheeled ifv.
Having option of buying hermes 900 is not the same as mass procurement of the same. Hermes 900 was imported and inducted to meet minimum operational requirements of armed forces due to delay in Tapas reaching required performance( which it will achieve in the future). Tapas did not clear user trials. Wheeled IFVs did and that's why LSPs of the IFVs were procured.
Also hermes was also used as benchmark because it's piston engine powered MALE UAV(like tapas) unlike predator drones(turboprop) which help set realistic expectation for tapas because these piston powered male UAVs marketing stats maxxing was under very specific conditions.
 

jai jaganath

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Logic of benchmarking drishti 10 does not apply to wheeled ifv.
Having option of buying hermes 900 is not the same as mass procurement of the same. Hermes 900 was imported and inducted to meet minimum operational requirements of armed forces due to delay in Tapas reaching required performance( which it will achieve in the future). Tapas did not clear user trials. Wheeled IFVs did and that's why LSPs of the IFVs were procured.
Also hermes was also used as benchmark because it's piston engine powered MALE UAV(like tapas) unlike predator drones(turboprop) which help set realistic expectation for tapas because these piston powered male UAVs marketing stats maxxing was under very specific conditions.
We could have achieved those desired numbers of tapas even after induction
There was no need of hermes
Coming to numbers then even hermes haven't achieved those in Indian conditions as mentioned in catalogue
I don't think ipmv were inducted with intension of lsp
Rather it was urgent requirement on ladakh front and removed the amphibious capability for reducing the cost as it was being inducted in small nos
Moreover if u want real world data of any common system like surveillance drones and ifv u need not procure it there are different ways to find out instead of inducting a new system that too imported
 

Corvus Splendens

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What are those issues??
The 40 something year old uprated 1400hp MTU 838 V10 dinosaur (originally used on the Leopard 1) that no longer has OEM support (The 1500hp DATRAN V-12 should be used to upgrade the entire fleet). The outdated 120mm rifled gun limits ammunition compatibility and wears out the barrel faster. Alleged lack of a good APDS penetrator capable of punching through 990mm RHA equivalent at a kilometer plus. 68 tons of tank with inferior frontal protection than equivalents like M1A2 or Chally 2, but also limiting it's deployment scenario due to the weight. Lack of true blow out panels for ammo stowage on both turret and hull. Containerized ammo bins won't prevent a cook-off. Inadequate side protection on both turret and hull, resulting in any hit beyond a frontal 30 degree arc being risky. Uncooled low res thermal sights in this day and age on a frontline MBT is not desirable either. The Abrams for example have had a high res cooled commander's thermal sight for nearly 20 years. There's more stuff I'm forgetting right now.
 

Darkindie

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The 40 something year old uprated 1400hp MTU 838 V10 dinosaur (originally used on the Leopard 1) that no longer has OEM support (The 1500hp DATRAN V-12 should be used to upgrade the entire fleet). The outdated 120mm rifled gun limits ammunition compatibility and wears out the barrel faster. Alleged lack of a good APDS penetrator capable of punching through 990mm RHA equivalent at a kilometer plus. 68 tons of tank with inferior frontal protection than equivalents like M1A2 or Chally 2, but also limiting it's deployment scenario due to the weight. Lack of true blow out panels for ammo stowage on both turret and hull. Containerized ammo bins won't prevent a cook-off. Inadequate side protection on both turret and hull, resulting in any hit beyond a frontal 30 degree arc being risky. Uncooled low res thermal sights in this day and age on a frontline MBT is not desirable either. The Abrams for example have had a high res cooled commander's thermal sight for nearly 20 years. There's more stuff I'm forgetting right now.
Aren't sights of arjun being integrated on t90s?
 

Corvus Splendens

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Stryker will not happen , the reason why US is pushing hard:
1. Large order for wheeled ifv from indian military.
2. Subversion of domestic industry (helpful in international market).
3. US thinks engine tot will work as pressure point.
Although stryker can have a similar case like drishti 10 but chances of that don't seem high.
Think again.
1718888267638.png

The GDLS M-SHORAD Sgt. Stout. Comes with a Moog Reconfigurable Integrated-weapons Platform turret and a Rada USA Multi-Mission Hemispheric Radar.
Armaments:
M299 launcher for 2X Longbow Hellfire missiles.
Raytheon Stinger Vehicle Universal Launcher (SVUL) with 4x surface-to-air missiles.
Northrop Grumman XM914 30 mm Bushmaster Chain Gun.
M240 7.62x51 mm machine gun.

Indian Army has been waiting for a package like this for a decade. Even recently they haven't forgotten to mention their need for an APC based SHORAD. And this new car is is being marketed as a battlefield drone killer. Making it easier for IA brass to pitch it to MoD.
 

Darkindie

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Think again.
View attachment 258711
The GDLS M-SHORAD Sgt. Stout. Comes with a Moog Reconfigurable Integrated-weapons Platform turret and a Rada USA Multi-Mission Hemispheric Radar.
Armaments:
M299 launcher for 2X Longbow Hellfire missiles.
Raytheon Stinger Vehicle Universal Launcher (SVUL) with 4x surface-to-air missiles.
Northrop Grumman XM914 30 mm Bushmaster Chain Gun.
M240 7.62x51 mm machine gun.

Indian Army has been waiting for a package like this for a decade. Even recently they haven't forgotten to mention their need for an APC based SHORAD. And this new car is is being marketed as a battlefield drone killer. Making it easier for IA brass to pitch it to MoD.
All these turrets were not there when stryker was first inducted. Same can be done with indian IFVs though it will take time just as it did for stryker.
 

Corvus Splendens

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The 40 something year old uprated 1400hp MTU 838 V10 dinosaur (originally used on the Leopard 1) that no longer has OEM support (The 1500hp DATRAN V-12 should be used to upgrade the entire fleet). The outdated 120mm rifled gun limits ammunition compatibility and wears out the barrel faster. Alleged lack of a good APDS penetrator capable of punching through 990mm RHA equivalent at a kilometer plus. 68 tons of tank with inferior frontal protection than equivalents like M1A2 or Chally 2, but also limiting it's deployment scenario due to the weight. Lack of true blow out panels for ammo stowage on both turret and hull. Containerized ammo bins won't prevent a cook-off. Inadequate side protection on both turret and hull, resulting in any hit beyond a frontal 30 degree arc being risky. Uncooled low res thermal sights in this day and age on a frontline MBT is not desirable either. The Abrams for example have had a high res cooled commander's thermal sight for nearly 20 years. There's more stuff I'm forgetting right now.
Corrections. The Arjun does come with blow out panels for turret ammo bins. But doesn't have the same for hull stowage. What the Arjun lacks is proper blast doors that prevent fragments from flying off inside the cabin during a cook-off. The turret-top blow out panel alone is not adequate.

1718890233489.png

compare Arjun's containerized stowage with shutters

1718890380379.png
1718890395196.png

With the M1's blast doors for both turret and hull stowage
 

Azaad

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Think again.
View attachment 258711
The GDLS M-SHORAD Sgt. Stout. Comes with a Moog Reconfigurable Integrated-weapons Platform turret and a Rada USA Multi-Mission Hemispheric Radar.
Armaments:
M299 launcher for 2X Longbow Hellfire missiles.
Raytheon Stinger Vehicle Universal Launcher (SVUL) with 4x surface-to-air missiles.
Northrop Grumman XM914 30 mm Bushmaster Chain Gun.
M240 7.62x51 mm machine gun.

Indian Army has been waiting for a package like this for a decade. Even recently they haven't forgotten to mention their need for an APC based SHORAD. And this new car is is being marketed as a battlefield drone killer. Making it easier for IA brass to pitch it to MoD.
Assuming the WhAP hull is used as a platform , how long will it take to duplicate the Sgt Stout capabilities ? Aren't all the building blocks needed to replicate this in place already what with the SHORADS being tested for certification ?

We've the Strela & Tunguska being refurbished in some numbers though admittedly they're obsolete. Then there's the Tor ADS which we didn't procure which is of the same vintage as the aforementioned two ADS besides being superior & complementing them.

Besides a Sgt Stout replica on a WhAP with Akashteer should be a handful IMO.

Disclaimer -Not much clued into the granular details , just offering an opinion based on a surface reading of the situation .
 

Corvus Splendens

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Assuming the WhAP hull is used as a platform , how long will it take to duplicate the Sgt Stout capabilities ? Aren't all the building blocks needed to replicate this in place already what with the SHORADS being tested for certification ?

We've the Strela & Tunguska being refurbished in some numbers though admittedly they're obsolete. Then there's the Tor ADS which we didn't procure which is of the same vintage as the aforementioned two ADS besides being superior & complementing them.

Besides a Sgt Stout replica on a WhAP with Akashteer should be a handful IMO.

Disclaimer -Not much clued into the granular details , just offering an opinion based on a surface reading of the situation .
We don't have a multirole modular turret like that yet, much less the miniaturized radar panels. Closest thing we have in development is the AVNL turret from the FICV program. We'd need to find space for the radar and SAM cells. Perfectly doable if we wanted to.
1718894079553.png
 

Mr.Evil007

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We don't have a multirole modular turret like that yet, much less the miniaturized radar panels. Closest thing we have in development is the AVNL turret from the FICV program. We'd need to find space for the radar and SAM cells. Perfectly doable if we wanted to.
View attachment 258728
Tbh iam not very mad about us procuring Stryker only if we get some modifications for us and 100%Tot it’s a pretty good WhAp
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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Corrections. The Arjun does come with blow out panels for turret ammo bins. But doesn't have the same for hull stowage. What the Arjun lacks is proper blast doors that prevent fragments from flying off inside the cabin during a cook-off. The turret-top blow out panel alone is not adequate.

View attachment 258718
compare Arjun's containerized stowage with shutters

View attachment 258720View attachment 258721
With the M1's blast doors for both turret and hull stowage
Arjun Mk1A has Containerised Bins with Individual armoured shutters

1718897239093.png
 

Azaad

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We don't have a multirole modular turret like that yet, much less the miniaturized radar panels. Closest thing we have in development is the AVNL turret from the FICV program. We'd need to find space for the radar and SAM cells. Perfectly doable if we wanted to.
View attachment 258728
Right. Thanks for answering. I think I now understand the reason behind the IA going in for Sgt Stout. It's to fulfill their own immediate needs as well as give the DRDO an idea of what's needed with multiple variants coming up using the FICV as a common platform.

DRDO can study the model closely & come up with their own version later.
 

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