DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[mokoman]

Don't you guys think Kalyani 105mm MGS is just proof of concept and not a fully military grade mature product. Its basically screwdrivergiri of mandus 105mm artillery. They could have atleast tried to engineer the concept on a vehicle like pcl-161 and pcl-171. Just compare these three vehicles and find out which one seems better.
View attachment 230324
View attachment 230325
and now compare these to this jugaad of kalyani mgs
View attachment 230326

So, where is the space for ammo and crew to operate the gun. And if anything to learn from Ukraine is that you atleast want your vehicle to be protected from shrapnels. This is just not good.

Only advantage of this vehicle is lightweight of 5.5tons but no space for gun crew and ammo. Otoh Chinese systems providers for both as well as basic Armor in total weight of some 11tons.
We haven't also got enough chinooks to lug around these kalayani mgs for air mobility ops too.

It may sadden some people but I surely don't want this half baked system in IA.

If only kalyani offers something like their other product View attachment 230328

I would rather prefer conversion of current towed 105mm to mobile solutions like
View attachment 230330
View attachment 230331

No need to waste money on half baked solutios like kalyani 105mm mgs which not bringing anything significant to the table.

looks similar to this US thing , 105mm on humvee .

maybe these things do have value , lighter , more mobility . only carry enough ammo for single run .

chinese also have similar one .

 

[Azaad]

looks similar to this US thing , 105mm on humvee .

maybe these things do have value , lighter , more mobility . only carry enough ammo for single run .

chinese also have similar one .

Or for all you know the Garuda 105 mm could well be the first iteration. Subsequent iterations could be the 105 mm or even 122 mm with the adequate armoury of shell stacks as the pcl-161 & pcl -171 carry along with features like self loading & auto fcs as well as self protection cab for the crew & the rest of the vehicle from explosives & splinters.

The IA think tank for such endeavours is as whimsical as they come. To make matters worse the war in Ukraine has further muddled up their doctrines & brains. The impending war on the LAC hasn't yet woken them from their stupor or probably has & added to the confusion.

 

[Chinmoy]

Or for all you know the Garuda 105 mm could well be the first iteration. Subsequent iterations could be the 105 mm or even 122 mm with the adequate armoury of shell stacks as the pcl-161 & pcl -171 carry along with features like self loading & auto fcs as well as self protection cab for the crew & the rest of the vehicle from explosives & splinters.

The IA think tank for such endeavours is as whimsical as they come. To make matters worse the war in Ukraine has further muddled up their doctrines & brains. The impending war on the LAC hasn't yet woken them from their stupor or probably has & added to the confusion.

Its second iteration. First one was Garuda 105. Then came the current Garuda 105_v2.

 

[Azaad]

Its second iteration. First one was Garuda 105. Then came the current Garuda 105_v2.

So which one is being evaluated / considered for acquisition ? The former or latter or both ?

 

[Chinmoy]

So which one is being evaluated / considered for acquisition ? The former or latter or both ?

Last time I spoke with Kalyani guys, its V2 getting evaluated by IA. But V1 too has seen its share of testing. It is a more robust system then v2 IMO.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Last time I spoke with Kalyani guys, its V2 getting evaluated by IA. But V1 too has seen its share of testing. It is a more robust system then v2 IMO.

What are the improvements in V2 iteration over V1 ? Do we know ?

 

[Chinmoy]

What are the improvements in V2 iteration over V1 ? Do we know ?

That's both system for you.

 

[Marliii]

 

[Azaad]

View attachment 230457

View attachment 230458

That's both system for you.

Frankly the points mention in the V2 brochure are common to V1 . Bharat Forges / Kalyani group's contribution has been metallurgy by bringing down the weight of the gun & by tying up with MANDUS US for the technology of soft recoil also dubbed hybrid recoil.

Apparently V2 can also be adapted to different platforms though whether the same cannot be said about V1 isn't clear . It's also been adapted specifically for deployment in mountain warfare . However in what way is it adapted is also not clear. Is it the FCS & targeting system which is different in the V2 as compared to the V1 ?

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

How do you even go on about countering something like this?

This is actually the average cross section across different bands and probably along frontal arc. One good counter againt stealth is a distributed system of low frequency radars with advanced noise filteration. Though no one has actually implemented this due to cost/infra difficulties

 

[raju1982]

it's the nature of engineering innovations.

folks might have heard of agile and rolling wave
agile is used typically for software development, and rolling wave is used for engineering projects.

ultimately it boils down to how many IPs you own, and out of IPs you own how many can be combined to make a final product. in rolling wave, you can't move to the next step fully until previous step is completed.

take the example of nag missile(prospina), for many years user was not happy with the outcome (12-3 pm "restriction"), ultimately seeker break through came in 2019. and since then there have been a slew of short range missile with seekers from innovation stand point, production is a different story.

no choice but to keep at it, until the critical mass is reached on I.Ps, to reach a point where engineers can mix and match relevant I.Ps to cook up products that user has asked for.

mean while security forces can't sit idle, they will need to be supplied to fulfill their priorities, hence screwdriver giri. if their purchasing requirements are not fulfilled, it will only add to the existing procurement backlogs, and will become a headache later.

View attachment 230445

View attachment 230446

Agreed but as the private cos are getting involed from the called ToT (know how, know why etc) we should expecr some future products.

China mastered this art and now much ahead of Europe in tech and threatening US dominance. From supercomputer to EMALs, from UCAVs to hypersonics, from quantum computing to ChatGPT, from could computing to space race... everywhere. They might be our number one enemy but hatts off to them for this achievements. We should learn.

 

[raju1982]

Fell in love with it the moment I saw it. A thousand of these deployed along western border, can keep Porks jarnails busy for rest their left out life.

How do you even go on about countering something like this?

This all are fan estimates, no one even saw how 6th gen NGAD looks like. Most surprisingly from design to first flight took only two years, while our 5th gen AMCA is waiting for nod from CCS/DAC/MAC/KHAK/BACK/LICK etc so on so forth after two decades of iterations by ADA/IAF.

PAF might field a Chinese 5th gen fighter atleast few years before IAF.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Fell in love with it the moment I saw it. A thousand of these deployed along western border, can keep Porks jarnails busy for rest their left out life.



This all are fan estimates, no one even saw how 6th gen NGAD looks like. Most surprisingly from design to first flight took only two years, while our 5th gen AMCA is waiting for nod from CCS/DAC/MAC/KHAK/BACK/LICK etc so on so forth after two decades of iterations by ADA/IAF.

PAF might field a Chinese 5th gen fighter atleast few years before IAF.

Not fair comparing us who is working on his first ever 5th gen jet with private sector not joining for spv model yet to a private company who has been making jets since decades and already made one of most of just most advanced jet ever they know what to do when to do they don't have wait for gov green flags they don't have red tape they already have the best pool of talent to recruit just not fair comparing a newbie to a pro who's be doing it for decades

 

[raju1982]

Not fair comparing us who is working on his first ever 5th gen jet with private sector not joining for spv model yet to a private company who has been making jets since decades and already made one of most of just most advanced jet ever they know what to do when to do they don't have wait for gov green flags they don't have red tape they already have the best pool of talent to recruit just not fair comparing a newbie to a pro who's be doing it for decades

Sorry, dont agree with you. This 'newbie' thing being said from Marut time to LCA and now to AMCA and may be even in future also. Its just an excuse for not getting things done.

Earlier worked with one of the biggest aerospace company and saw how it works. Also visited HAL, their engineers might be talented, but cannot even speak English properly. But newer gen might be different. While few kilometers away same Indian engineers working in Honeywell or Microsoft are smarter than their US counterparts.

Money and infrastructure are secondary, intents and ownership need to be there first. MoD/ADA/HAL's actions do not implies the intent.

 

[hurrians]

Fell in love with it the moment I saw it. A thousand of these deployed along western border, can keep Porks jarnails busy for rest their left out life.



This all are fan estimates, no one even saw how 6th gen NGAD looks like. Most surprisingly from design to first flight took only two years, while our 5th gen AMCA is waiting for nod from CCS/DAC/MAC/KHAK/BACK/LICK etc so on so forth after two decades of iterations by ADA/IAF.

PAF might field a Chinese 5th gen fighter atleast few years before IAF.

What is the Chinese original contribution to aircraft engine technology, Russian, Western and israeli support helps/helped chicomese aircraft and it's engines.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Sorry, dont agree with you. This 'newbie' thing being said from Marut time to LCA and now to AMCA and may be even in future also. Its just an excuse for not getting things done.

Earlier worked with one of the biggest aerospace company and saw how it works. Also visited HAL, their engineers might be talented, but cannot even speak English properly. But newer gen might be different. While few kilometers away same Indian engineers working in Honeywell or Microsoft are smarter than their US counterparts.

Money and infrastructure are secondary, intents and ownership need to be there first. MoD/ADA/HAL's actions do not implies the intent.

Can you compare Making one 4th gen jet to a company who has produced multiple 4th to 5th gen jets ?

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

Honestly US way of working is something different. Even in 2000s skunk works and LM may have started on 6th Gen tech.

Never seen US playing file pushing when it comes to Defence. It is just well organized Sector where things will move on its own.

Only thing the US got hurt is Public Transport. Just tell them Car sucks and Railways can be electrified. They will die.

 

[mist_consecutive]

The seer has spoken

 

[patriots]

 

[R A Varun]

Don't you guys think Kalyani 105mm MGS is just proof of concept and not a fully military grade mature product. Its basically screwdrivergiri of mandus 105mm artillery. They could have atleast tried to engineer the concept on a vehicle like pcl-161 and pcl-171. Just compare these three vehicles and find out which one seems better.
View attachment 230324
View attachment 230325
and now compare these to this jugaad of kalyani mgs
View attachment 230326

So, where is the space for ammo and crew to operate the gun. And if anything to learn from Ukraine is that you atleast want your vehicle to be protected from shrapnels. This is just not good.

Only advantage of this vehicle is lightweight of 5.5tons but no space for gun crew and ammo. Otoh Chinese systems providers for both as well as basic Armor in total weight of some 11tons.
We haven't also got enough chinooks to lug around these kalayani mgs for air mobility ops too.

It may sadden some people but I surely don't want this half baked system in IA.

If only kalyani offers something like their other product View attachment 230328

I would rather prefer conversion of current towed 105mm to mobile solutions like
View attachment 230330
View attachment 230331

No need to waste money on half baked solutios like kalyani 105mm mgs which not bringing anything significant to the table.

chinese roads are more accessible than indian's and hence chinese can have multi axle mounts all the time. as they have to traverse the plains and valleys mostly. whereas in the Indian case, it is sharp turn mountains and mountains only, so light and compact vehicles and solutions are required. provided the IAF can airlift the kalyani's more easily than that of chinese. we all seeing what is happeining with the mounted artillery guns in the ukraine war, and in himalyan sector, Indian side needs more mobility than the chinese.

chinese vehicles can accelerate faster due to somewhat low inclinations in the terrain and plains mostly. while the Indian side needs to traverse the 10 times more difficult terrains during conflict. and hence they should be somewhat lighter in their category.