DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Fatalis]

Replacing An-32 with A-400M! Kaahe Bhaiya

Shouldn't C-295 be a closer replacement of An-32? The price of C-295 is somewhere around $50m in the current deal to make 53 of them and it includes ToT too. So if we order a further 80 of them then the price will go further down. Now compare that to the price of A-400M; $150-180m. You can basically buy a whopping 240 C-295 for the same price of 80 A-400M.

Moreover C-295 is better suited for the kind of tactical mission An-32 is designed for; shorter take-off/landing, operating from semi-prepared strips. Not to mention it's one of those extremely rare cargo plane that has hardpoint for carrying adequate armaments for landing in contested areas. CASA also gives option to add side firing autocannon to effectively make a gun ship.
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Why not sir ji?

MTA was always envisioned to have more than 20 tonnes of payload and act as a replacement for An-32.

Now, we are replacing HS-748 with C-295 which is better in every aspect. We can partially replace An-32 with C-295 and the upcoming MTA.

For me MTA is more suitable replacement as it is much more capable and it can also do the work of Il-76.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

 

[Vamsi]

Alpha bhaia being cryptic said something about how next week is gonna be big

Ah ha, Alpha Defence...The Kangana Ranaut of defence world

Obviously we'd be using Kaveri as the base of next engine no matter whether ToT comes from Safran or GE

This is what he meant, improving AL-31F using Kaveri's technologies

 

[Lonewarrior]

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From here on I put forward a parameter to gauge the potential of an indigenous system to its contemporaries worldwide; it's called the "BrochureWarrior's Offer Test"

If out of nowhere a foreign country is offering us a system and that too with license then it means our own homegrown alternative has matured enough to be a threat for them in global markets. For example

ToT of AK-203 was offered to us...TAR had become good enough.
ToT of Stryker is offered to us...WhAP is good enough
ToT of F21 is offered to us...Varunastra is good enough

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Idea of M1/M2/M3

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If stage separation rings of all 3 missiles is same then possibly the kill vehicle of all 3 missiles is same. That is 3 missiles with different boosters but same second stage ??

 

[johnj]

C-295 seems to be most versatile platform out there.
Transport, ISR, Armed ISR, MPA, AEW&C,etc. you name it, the platform has all grounds covered.
This is huge huge huge opportunity for the IAF with licensed production of this platform now in India, it should not be wasted by ordering merely 56 airframes

And GoI need to act fast otherwise, TATA close down the line after 1.5 decade, you start blaming IN, not ordering MPA on time
DRDO considering bigger platform for AEW&C

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

And GoI need to act fast otherwise, TATA close down the line after 1.5 decade, you start blaming IN, not ordering MPA on time
DRDO considering bigger platform for AEW&C

Until the Armed Forces issue an AoN, the ball is not in the GOI/MoD's court.

 

[johnj]

Until the Armed Forces issue an AoN, the ball is not in the GOI/MoD's court.

AoN is issued by MoD not AF Armed Forces
DAC which is a part of GOI/MoD's court is responsible for AoN, not Armed Forces

 

[johnj]

Not just a good step but an extremely necessary one. Astra isn't better than Meteor, this whole thing is for something else.

Rafale is one funny aircraft. It has the most advanced EW system (Spectra and all) for any non-5th gen fighter and it carries no anti-radiation missile. Yup, you heard it right, it's probably the only plane in its class to lack any ARM missile support.

So if we can add NGARM (Rudram-I) to it then only we can exploit the full potential of both NGARM and Rafale's EW system.

SPECTRA (Self-Protection Equipment to Counter Threats for Rafale Aircraft), a multi-spectral integrated defensive aids suite not a complete EW suite like one in F18G, which EW suite is superior than 5th gen EW suite
Rafale lacks ARM due to Spectra which enable Rafale to penetrate most ground based AD system
To take full[most] potential of Spectra, its better to consider Rudram-II or hypersonic ARM

 

[johnj]

Why not sir ji?

MTA was always envisioned to have more than 20 tonnes of payload and act as a replacement for An-32.

Now, we are replacing HS-748 with C-295 which is better in every aspect. We can partially replace An-32 with C-295 and the upcoming MTA.

For me MTA is more suitable replacement as it is much more capable and it can also do the work of Il-76.

IAF wanted 60+ C130J, due to the high cost of C130J[around 1000 core at that time] UPA gov rejected IAF request and started MTA
MTA is similar to C130J, if you consider payload and range
Now IAF increased their demand and asking requirement close to A400M

 

[Lonewarrior]

So much to unpack...

SPECTRA (Self-Protection Equipment to Counter Threats for Rafale Aircraft), a multi-spectral integrated defensive aids suite not a complete EW suite like one in F18G, which EW suite is superior than 5th gen EW suite

You're confusing a pure SEAD/DEAD platform with Electronic Warfare planes with limited DEAD capabilities. They're similiar but not the same

Growlers are what I'd call a "soft-kill" system where majority of work is done by those three giant jamming pod and as a backup you have two HARM missile in case things go south. Now compare that with something "hard-kill" like a F-16CJ with a AN/ASQ-213 pod and atleast 4 HARMs. It doesn't bother with fancy terms like jamming and spoofing...it gets illuminated by radar and automatically an AGM-88 is fired towards it.

The EW suit of Rafale is definitely nothing compared to a dedicated electric "attack" platform like Growler, but for SEAD/DEAD missions it's extraordinary. You can very easily afford to get locked by enemy radar because you know the EW suit will save your a** all while assigning a NGARM to that radar in the process. You've a built in AN/ASQ-213.

Now coming to the "and all" (SPECTRA and all) part. Out of those 13 India Specific Enhancements, 4 are SEAD/DEAD related
> Radar Warning receiver (2.5 -18 GHz to 10-18 GHz)
> Low Band Jammer pod (1- 4.5 gHz)
> Non Cooperative Target Recognition Radar
> Towed Decoys Very High Frequency Omni Range

Rafale lacks ARM due to Spectra which enable Rafale to penetrate most ground based AD system

But just penetrate, not destroy them. And it was a blunder on French side that the just "forgot" to add SEAD/DEAD capability and thought defensive jamming would be sufficient.

So much so that now they're hauling their a** as fast as possible after getting caught with their pants down

IFC 2022: France to equip Rafale for SEAD/DEAD mission

France is to equip its Dassault Rafale combat aircraft for the suppression of enemy air defences (SEAD)/destruction of enemy air defences (DEAD) mission from 2030, which...

www.google.co.in

Rudram-II or hypersonic ARM

ARM version of Rudram would rarely be used by IAF even if somehow inducted; they are developing it because well they can. Having a single humongous ARM defeats the whole purpose of anti-radiation as it's just one; no matter how fast it is. You'll need to launch multiple ARMs in a single mission, there's always chances of ARMs getting spoofed so you may launch another one. This is the reason Muricans carry atleast two HARMs, even going four at times.

Rudram-II/III is more like a Desi Kinzhal

 

[Lonewarrior]

If stage separation rings of all 3 missiles is same then possibly the kill vehicle of all 3 missiles is same. That is 3 missiles with different boosters but same second stage ??

Obviously, why would you bother to make three different KV for different missiles. When all you have to do is make different missiles for the same kill vehicle so that you can send it to different altitude ranges.

 

[johnj]

So much to unpack...

You're confusing a pure SEAD/DEAD platform with Electronic Warfare planes with limited DEAD capabilities. They're similiar but not the same

Growlers are what I'd call a "soft-kill" system where majority of work is done by those three giant jamming pod and as a backup you have two HARM missile in case things go south. Now compare that with something "hard-kill" like a F-16CJ with a AN/ASQ-213 pod and atleast 4 HARMs. It doesn't bother with fancy terms like jamming and spoofing...it gets illuminated by radar and automatically an AGM-88 is fired towards it.

The EW suit of Rafale is definitely nothing compared to a dedicated electric "attack" platform like Growler, but for SEAD/DEAD missions it's extraordinary. You can very easily afford to get locked by enemy radar because you know the EW suit will save your a** all while assigning a NGARM to that radar in the process. You've a built in AN/ASQ-213.

Now coming to the "and all" (SPECTRA and all) part. Out of those 13 India Specific Enhancements, 4 are SEAD/DEAD related
> Radar Warning receiver (2.5 -18 GHz to 10-18 GHz)
> Low Band Jammer pod (1- 4.5 gHz)
> Non Cooperative Target Recognition Radar
> Towed Decoys Very High Frequency Omni Range

But just penetrate, not destroy them. And it was a blunder on French side that the just "forgot" to add SEAD/DEAD capability and thought defensive jamming would be sufficient.

So much so that now they're hauling their a** as fast as possible after getting caught with their pants down

IFC 2022: France to equip Rafale for SEAD/DEAD mission

France is to equip its Dassault Rafale combat aircraft for the suppression of enemy air defences (SEAD)/destruction of enemy air defences (DEAD) mission from 2030, which...

www.google.co.in

ARM version of Rudram would rarely be used by IAF even if somehow inducted; they are developing it because well they can. Having a single humongous ARM defeats the whole purpose of anti-radiation as it's just one; no matter how fast it is. You'll need to launch multiple ARMs in a single mission, there's always chances of ARMs getting spoofed so you may launch another one. This is the reason Muricans carry atleast two HARMs, even going four at times.

Rudram-II/III is more like a Desi Kinzhal

Doesn't matter
I bring G becz, US'UK considering electronic attack capability to F35 and EFT using FCR
ARM only useful if RADAR is in ON stage
Muricans carry at least two HARMs, even going four at times. for SEAD in mind, if none of the missile able to hit the target, due to RADAR OFF stage
Now a days ADGMS, QRSAMS capable of targeting VLO provide cover for High end SAMs against ARMs, also response time and speed od interceptor also increased, plus introduction of active seeker in interceptor missile etc reduces the chances of SEAD, making DEAD important, for that high speed and multisensor is necessary for future ARM
Rafale use hammer for DEAD currently, MKI with Rudram can do SEAD, and Rafale can use hammer for DEAD in a single mission [just a theory]

 

[Gyyan]

 

[Lonewarrior]

Spoiler: a²+b²+2ab

 

[Anandhu Krishna]

It does makes sense to replace An-32, Il-76 and Il-78 with A400M.

80 aircrafts to replace around 103 An-32, 17 Il-76 and further 12 to replace 6 Il-78.

Why not sir ji?



MTA was always envisioned to have more than 20 tonnes of payload and act as a replacement for An-32.


Now, we are replacing HS-748 with C-295 which is better in every aspect. We can partially replace An-32 with C-295 and the upcoming MTA.



For me MTA is more suitable replacement as it is much more capable and it can also do the work of Il-76.

More C-295 is definitely something they should do but AF is probably looking to increase their net airlift capability, so MTA.
They should go with C-390 imo. We will be in a much better position in negotiating with the Brazilians than we would be with Europeans.

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

1. AN-32 - Can carry 6.7 tonnes of cargo.
2. C-295 - Can carry 7.05 tonnes of cargo.

Looks like a clear winner here. We have 103 AN 32 and we can easily replace them with C-295. Thus we have a good scale of economics.

Now for Hercules replacement.

Either we can go on with additional order of C130J or if we are trying to do some screwdrivergiri with A400M or C-390.

Heavy strategic airlift.

Very limited products. IL-76 -- Not favorable.
C-17 -- Production stopped. Need to source from other countries.

Time to ask TOT from China regarding the Y-20 to plug the gaps.

 

[Fatalis]

1. AN-32 - Can carry 6.7 tonnes of cargo.
2. C-295 - Can carry 7.05 tonnes of cargo.

Looks like a clear winner here. We have 103 AN 32 and we can easily replace them with C-295. Thus we have a good scale of economics.

Now for Hercules replacement.

Either we can go on with additional order of C130J or if we are trying to do some screwdrivergiri with A400M or C-390.

Heavy strategic airlift.

Very limited products. IL-76 -- Not favorable.
C-17 -- Production stopped. Need to source from other countries.

Time to ask TOT from China regarding the Y-20 to plug the gaps.

Actually, the IAF is trying to increase its capability of medium lift, that is why they are focusing on getting the aircraft with payload of 18 to 30 tonnes. HAL MTA was also having payload of 20 tonnes.

No doubt C-295 is better replacement but IAF has need of more payload carrying capacity aircraft which will replace the An-32.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Bc idhar hale drone ka design final ni ho Raha inse

 

[DumbPilot]

So much to unpack...

You're confusing a pure SEAD/DEAD platform with Electronic Warfare planes with limited DEAD capabilities. They're similiar but not the same

Growlers are what I'd call a "soft-kill" system where majority of work is done by those three giant jamming pod and as a backup you have two HARM missile in case things go south. Now compare that with something "hard-kill" like a F-16CJ with a AN/ASQ-213 pod and atleast 4 HARMs. It doesn't bother with fancy terms like jamming and spoofing...it gets illuminated by radar and automatically an AGM-88 is fired towards it.

The EW suit of Rafale is definitely nothing compared to a dedicated electric "attack" platform like Growler, but for SEAD/DEAD missions it's extraordinary. You can very easily afford to get locked by enemy radar because you know the EW suit will save your a** all while assigning a NGARM to that radar in the process. You've a built in AN/ASQ-213.

Now coming to the "and all" (SPECTRA and all) part. Out of those 13 India Specific Enhancements, 4 are SEAD/DEAD related
> Radar Warning receiver (2.5 -18 GHz to 10-18 GHz)
> Low Band Jammer pod (1- 4.5 gHz)
> Non Cooperative Target Recognition Radar
> Towed Decoys Very High Frequency Omni Range

But just penetrate, not destroy them. And it was a blunder on French side that the just "forgot" to add SEAD/DEAD capability and thought defensive jamming would be sufficient.

So much so that now they're hauling their a** as fast as possible after getting caught with their pants down

IFC 2022: France to equip Rafale for SEAD/DEAD mission

France is to equip its Dassault Rafale combat aircraft for the suppression of enemy air defences (SEAD)/destruction of enemy air defences (DEAD) mission from 2030, which...

www.google.co.in

ARM version of Rudram would rarely be used by IAF even if somehow inducted; they are developing it because well they can. Having a single humongous ARM defeats the whole purpose of anti-radiation as it's just one; no matter how fast it is. You'll need to launch multiple ARMs in a single mission, there's always chances of ARMs getting spoofed so you may launch another one. This is the reason Muricans carry atleast two HARMs, even going four at times.

Rudram-II/III is more like a Desi Kinzhal

Your message is correct mostly, however NCTR(non cooperative target recognition) is not part of SEAD/DEAD. It has its use in air to air BVR fights.

Essentially, the NCTR is a way to do EID(electronic ID) on a radar target, in which the radar tries to scan the number of engine blades or the airframe return through the intake of the bogey, runs that through an internal library and tries to show the result on the radar screen.