DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Lonewarrior]

Range please ??

From 15 to 150km (excluding VSHORADs and a rumoured ABM).
Basically the whole spectrum we can offer for export, they have

 

[arnabmit]

We operate two variants of Barak-8 namely (5) MRSAM and (6) LRSAM where's one's based on 35km Barak-8 and other's on 70km Barak-8ER.

There was never any 35km Barak-8. Barak-8 was always with dual pulse motor giving it 70km range.

IAF used to call Barak-8 as MR-SAM, whereas IN used to call Barak-8 as LR-SAM. Recently IN has also redesigned Barak-8 as MS-SAM

Barak-8 ER is Barak-8 + booster, giving it 150km range. India never used Barak-8 ER as it was out of scope of the JV.

 

[Lonewarrior]

There was never any 35km Barak-8. Barak-8 was always with dual pulse motor giving it 70km range.

Except the fact that there was always a 35km ranged Barak-8. This is Barak-8 from which all other Barak-8 variants started.
And ya, not just was, but is. 35km ranged Barak-8 is still offered as a low cost variant of Barak-8 ER.

The interesting thing is Barak-8 and Barak-8 ER uses the same airframe except the rocket motor; so it's virtually impossible to distinguish between them.

Barak-8 ER is Barak-8 + booster, giving it 150km range. India never used Barak-8 ER as it was out of scope of the JV.

Absolutely not.
Barak-8 ER is simply Barak-8 with dual pulse motor in place of single.
The Barak + booster you're talking about is Barak ER.

And I know we're not part of this particular IPR in the JV, but; what we're doing with ERSAM is exactly what they did with Barak ER.

70km ranged dual pulse Barak-8 ER (which itself is dual pulse variant of Barak-8) + booster = 150km ranged Barak ER

70km ranged MRSAM + booster = 150km ranged ERSAM

 

[jai jaganath]

Do basically 1st mk1a will be in 2025

Maine esa kya Bola ki log hass rahe hai

 

[flanker99]

"But the first Tejas Mark-1A will probably come towards end-2024. First, every small equipment change requires extensive flight testing and certification. Moreover, HAL has to majorly upgrade its annual production capability. Tejas Mark-2, of course, is still in the design and development phase," another source said.

u are right for some weird reason a part of the article isnt visible in desktop mode

 

[arnabmit]

Except the fact that there was always a 35km ranged Barak-8. This is Barak-8 from which all other Barak-8 variants started.
And ya, not just was, but is. 35km ranged Barak-8 is still offered as a low cost variant of Barak-8 ER.
View attachment 199687

Not really. This 35km missile is a recent development as part of the Barak MX series. This came much after the joint development, and has nothing to do with India.

The interesting thing is Barak-8 and Barak-8 ER uses the same airframe except the rocket motor; so it's virtually impossible to distinguish between them.
View attachment 199688

This is the 70km Barak-8 which Israel & India jointly developed.

Absolutely not.
Barak-8 ER is simply Barak-8 with dual pulse motor in place of single.
The Barak + booster you're talking about is Barak ER.
View attachment 199689

Barak-8 ER and Barak ER are the same missile. Barak-8 ER was renamed Barak ER once the Barak MX series was launched. (Maybe with a bit of modernization)

And I know we're not part of this particular IPR in the JV, but; what we're doing with ERSAM is exactly what they did with Barak ER.

70km ranged MRSAM + booster = 150km ranged ERSAM

We do not know what will be ERSAM yet. Feel free to speculate. It can also be Akash-NG + AD1 booster

 

[Pythonlover]

Do basically 1st mk1a will be in 2025

What? First plane was scheduled to be delivered in 2024, no? 3 year after signing of contract?

 

[jai jaganath]

What? First plane was scheduled to be delivered in 2024, no? 3 year after signing of contract?

But report says end of 2024 that is fy so basically 2025 na ?

 

[Lonewarrior]

Not really. This 35km missile is a recent development as part of the Barak MX series. This came much after the joint development, and has nothing to do with India.

It was the original.

This is the 70km Barak-8 which Israel & India jointly developed

Yup, we helped them develop the dual pulse motor for the Barak-8 ER. The whole dual pulse motor or to be more specific the PSD in that motor is our invention, we hold the IPR. That's why you'll see a flurry of "dual pulse" happening after Barak-8 ER; Astra Mk-2 getting a dual pulse in upgrade, NGARM has a dual pulse, etc

Barak-8 ER and Barak ER is the same missile. Barak-8 ER was renamed Barak ER once the Barak MX series was launched.

Except that IAI doesn't agree with you. For them Barak-8 ER is 70km and Barak ER is 150km.

We do not know what will be ERSAM yet. Feel free to speculate. It can also be Akash-NG + AD1 booster

Except the fact that we know ERSAM's booster is very small compared to AD-1's

- this overall length of 1.1 meters matches that of Barak-ER booster. Barak-8 ER is 4.5m and Barak ER is 6; a booster of 1.5m.
- also the diameter where it's supposed to attach with the missile is roughly 250mm, which again matches closely with the 225mm of LRSAM

 

[arnabmit]

It was the original.

Yup, we helped them develop the dual pulse motor for the Barak-8 ER. The whole dual pulse motor or to be more specific the PSD in that motor is our invention, we hold the IPR. That's why you'll see a flurry of "dual pulse" happening after Barak-8 ER; Astra Mk-2 getting a dual pulse in upgrade, NGARM has a dual pulse, etc

Except that IAI doesn't agree with you. For them Barak-8 ER is 70km and Barak ER is 150km.

Except the fact that we know ERSAM's booster is very small compared to AD-1's
View attachment 199700
- this overall length of 1.1 meters matches that of Barak-ER booster. Barak-8 ER is 4.5m and Barak ER is 6; a booster of 1.5m.
- also the diameter where it's supposed to attach with the missile is roughly 250mm, which again matches closely with the 225mm of LRSAM

You are now just flogging a dead horse. If you are so adamant in calling the earth flat, please be my guest. Adios.

 

[vin bharat mahan]

Except the fact that there was always a 35km ranged Barak-8. This is Barak-8 from which all other Barak-8 variants started.
And ya, not just was, but is. 35km ranged Barak-8 is still offered as a low cost variant of Barak-8 ER.
View attachment 199687
The interesting thing is Barak-8 and Barak-8 ER uses the same airframe except the rocket motor; so it's virtually impossible to distinguish between them.
View attachment 199688

Absolutely not.
Barak-8 ER is simply Barak-8 with dual pulse motor in place of single.
The Barak + booster you're talking about is Barak ER.
View attachment 199689
And I know we're not part of this particular IPR in the JV, but; what we're doing with ERSAM is exactly what they did with Barak ER.

70km ranged dual pulse Barak-8 ER (which itself is dual pulse variant of Barak-8) + booster = 150km ranged Barak ER

70km ranged MRSAM + booster = 150km ranged ERSAM

bhai ji there is no barak 8 with 30-35 km range...u r confusing with barak 1, which hv 30 km range. our ERSAM (150 km) was first planned with barak 8 + booster...now they will go with aakash ng + booster. barak 8 is very expensive. if we very near to make production ready aakash ng. than it make more sense that they will add booster in aakash ng. so for export, we dont need to ask or share money with israel.

 

[Lonewarrior]

You are now just flogging a dead horse. If you are so adamant in calling the earth flat, please be my guest. Adios.

Just gonna end with this

Dasvidaniya

 

[vin bharat mahan]

It was the original.

Yup, we helped them develop the dual pulse motor for the Barak-8 ER. The whole dual pulse motor or to be more specific the PSD in that motor is our invention, we hold the IPR. That's why you'll see a flurry of "dual pulse" happening after Barak-8 ER; Astra Mk-2 getting a dual pulse in upgrade, NGARM has a dual pulse, etc

Except that IAI doesn't agree with you. For them Barak-8 ER is 70km and Barak ER is 150km.

Except the fact that we know ERSAM's booster is very small compared to AD-1's
View attachment 199700
- this overall length of 1.1 meters matches that of Barak-ER booster. Barak-8 ER is 4.5m and Barak ER is 6; a booster of 1.5m.
- also the diameter where it's supposed to attach with the missile is roughly 250mm, which again matches closely with the 225mm of LRSAM

india hv only two type of barak 8:-
1:- first hv 70 km range nd service in airforce.
2:- second hv 100 km range nd used in naval ships.
3:- we didnt upgrade or add booster to make our barak 8 increase its range to 150 km, like israeli did. coz we r going to add booster on aakash ng nd make it 150 km range.

 

[Lonewolf]

From 15 to 150km (excluding VSHORADs and a rumoured ABM).
Basically the whole spectrum we can offer for export, they have

Nope ,hisar family only have 10-30 km max range missile , speaking generously more than poster figures.
Siper is just hisar derived body with a strap on booster ,max it can achieve is 100 km.

And show me something on that rumoured ABM.

Range of ad1 itself is more than 200 km conservatively , akash ng and mrsam have similar weight , dimension, dual pulse arrangement, motor casing, in addition to composite for weight reduction, so at minimum it will give a 75 km , and max will be around 90-95 km.

Vlsrsam is derived of Astra with a tvc added to it , Astra have asked if 0.9 ,which is a great figure , add tvc and it will have a bigger NEZ as less time and fuel will be wasted after launch from vls, to compare vl-mica ,weighs 112kg gives a 20 km range with a aam range of 60 km , camm er is 166 kg and a range of 45 km , but as per you 170kg Astra gives 110 km range but vlsrsam will be less than 25 km ? I don't think so , that means we should really really suck at launching from ground.

My figures are
Qrsam 30 km
Vlsrsam. 45 km
Akash ng 80 km

Rest we need dimensions for comparison

 

[skunk works]

Laughs in SiPER/Hisar-A/O/D/U

We can beat them on price point.

 

[rodeo]

Nope ,hisar family only have 10-30 km max range missile , speaking generously more than poster figures.
Siper is just hisar derived body with a strap on booster ,max it can achieve is 100 km.

And show me something on that rumoured ABM.

Correct. Siper Blok 1 is derived from Hisar with an added booster. It was going to be named Hisar-U but for some reason they renamed it to Siper Blok 1. The missile has been tested several times and in the last test it shot down the target that was 100km+ away. The missile will enter service this year. Roketsan is also working to quad-pack the missile to use with the indigenous vertical launch system on Istanbul class frigates.

Siper Blok 2(the true Siper) is an AD system with 150km+(speculated) range. A few days ago TÜBATAK SAGE's CEO confirmed that the testing campaign of Blok 2 of Siper will begin very soon.

Siper Blok 3(in development) is said(by the authorities) to have capabilities similar to S400.

About ABM, there will be three different configurations of a true ABM system with different ranges and capabilities. The date for its delivery is around 2027-2028.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Nope ,hisar family only have 10-30 km max range missile , speaking generously more than poster figures.
Siper is just hisar derived body with a strap on booster ,max it can achieve is 100 km

If their quotation is poster figure and our poster figure is quotation...then I can't do much mate.

Feel free to label me Turkish fanboi

And show me something on that rumoured ABM.

Naah...not gonna upload documents to prove my point...afterall it's DFI, not WT.

Give it some time, it'll definitely emerge.

Range of ad1 itself is more than 200 km conservatively , akash ng and mrsam have similar weight , dimension, dual pulse arrangement, motor casing, in addition to composite for weight reduction, so at minimum it will give a 75 km , and max will be around 90-95 km.

Are you sure we are going to offer ABMs for export this soon? And that too not of obsolete systems like AAD or PAD but of AD-1!

Vlsrsam is derived of Astra with a tvc added to it , Astra have asked if 0.9 ,which is a great figure , add tvc and it will have a bigger NEZ as less time and fuel will be wasted after launch from vls, to compare vl-mica ,weighs 112kg gives a 20 km range with a aam range of 60 km , camm er is 166 kg and a range of 45 km , but as per you 170kg Astra gives 110 km range but vlsrsam will be less than 25 km ?

Didn't get you, wanna reframe bit elaborately?

 

[Truthsoldier]

From 15 to 150km (excluding VSHORADs and a rumoured ABM).
Basically the whole spectrum we can offer for export, they have

If only we can hurry the process of development and production with adequate funding, we would be earning billion of dollars from export. It would so empowering for our foreign relations. Some real hard power

 

[Lonewolf]

If their quotation is poster figure and our poster figure is quotation...then I can't do much mate.

Leave poster just pick up dimensions and compare and you will see a proper comparison, just be careful to compare motor casing dimensions not whole missile, and take into effect the burn time, i did a pretty long calculation a long time back, even though they considered a lot of ideal conditions but you can get a pretty good idea.

Feel free to label me Turkish fanboi

Not my words ,yours dude

Naah...not gonna upload documents to prove my point...afterall it's DFI, not WT.

Give it some time, it'll definitely emerge.

Saw the basic engineering drawings some time back, it's far from realisation, let it be fired first , and our ad 2 is yet to be tested .

Are you sure we are going to offer ABMs for export this soon? And that too not of obsolete systems like AAD or PAD but of AD-1!

Nope and neither will they , their abm is based a bit on hq 9.

Didn't get you, wanna reframe bit elaborately?

Did a brief comparison with missile in the same class

 

[Lonewolf]

Correct. Siper Blok 1 is derived from Hisar with an added booster. It was going to be named Hisar-U but for some reason they renamed it to Siper Blok 1. The missile has been tested several times and in the last test it shot down the target that was 100km+ away. The missile will enter service this year. Roketsan is also working to quad-pack the missile to use with the indigenous vertical launch system on Istanbul class frigates.

Siper Blok 2(the true Siper) is an AD system with 150km+(speculated) range. A few days ago TÜBATAK SAGE's CEO confirmed that the testing campaign of Blok 2 of Siper will begin very soon.

Siper Blok 3(in development) is said(by the authorities) to have capabilities similar to S400.

About ABM, there will be three different configurations of a true ABM system with different ranges and capabilities. The date for its delivery is around 2027-2028.

Got anything on dimensions of siper ? Especially motor casing , material etc