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[DumbPilot]

Not good examples. Those countries you mentioned do not have truly independent foreign policies and their culture has been seriously westernized and bastardized. Their own religions have been suppressed in favor of Christianity and Israel is not really independent but dependent on US.

You'd rather have us off the "Western teat" and onto the "Russian teat". What use is ideology or religion if you're dying outside, hungry and naked? Isn't that basically how the Soviet Union went extinct too?

Or do you want us to cling onto "religion" and act like a "big country" with a "truly independent foreign policy" like Iran or Turkey whose religion has not been "bastardized" and "westernized"(aside from when it has)?

Religion isn't some book, actual humans practice them too. You want to cling onto a book and reject the human and their needs and welfare?

Once India can actually compare with countries like those, maybe then we can start to think about "getting off the Western teat".

Japan got nuked twice in 1945. South Korea got liberation from Japanese colonialism in 1945. Israeli was formed in 1948. India got independence in 1947.

Ask where we went wrong with our country first, then let's talk about religion and whatnot.

 

[Blademaster]

You'd rather have us off the "Western teat" and onto the "Russian teat". What use is ideology or religion if you're dying outside, hungry and naked? Isn't that basically how the Soviet Union went extinct too?

Or do you want us to cling onto "religion" and act like a "big country" with a "truly independent foreign policy" like Iran or Turkey whose religion has not been "bastardized" and "westernized"(aside from when it has)?

Religion isn't some book, actual humans practice them too. You want to cling onto a book and reject the human and their needs and welfare?

I am advocating no one's teat but our own. The western world is forcing us to go the western way. It should be our choice not their choice. If a russian weapon suits us the best, then we should go for it regardless of what the western world says. If a western weapon suits us the best, we should go for it regardless of what the russians say. However, we should be going our own way as we see fit. I am talking about an independent foreign policy and independent economic policy that is not subject to the dictat of a foreign power. The reason why I am more pro Russia than pro Western is because Russia has learned its lesson of not dictating to us whereas the US and the West have not and continue to attempt to dictate India on what to do.

And you are throwing red herrings and strawmans arguments into this argument with religion and big country etc. I am talking about preserving one owns culture. Look at their societies. They have become totally bastardized and lost their own sense of identity and have submerged their cultural identity in subservience to the western culture.

Look at the western attempt to Christianize India. They do this with impunity because we do not have the balls to wean off their teats.

 

[DumbPilot]

I am advocating no one's teat but our own. The western world is forcing us to go the western way. It should be our choice not their choice. If a russian weapon suits us the best, then we should go for it regardless of what the western world says. If a western weapon suits us the best, we should go for it regardless of what the russians say. However, we should be going our own way as we see fit. I am talking about an independent foreign policy and independent economic policy that is not subject to the dictat of a foreign power. The reason why I am more pro Russia than pro Western is because Russia has learned its lesson of not dictating to us whereas the US and the West have not and continue to attempt to dictate India on what to do.

And you are throwing red herrings and strawmans arguments into this argument with religion and big country etc. I am talking about culture.

We can make all the choice we want, but are we ready for the consequences?

India can fund and buy from Russian MIC, but what are we to do with the consequences and repercussions from such a move? Are we ready for increasing US hostility towards us? All our high-tech things come from there and their allies. If we are to make a move, we must justify the profit being greater than the costs.

Who cares about pro-West, pro-Russia? All I care about is the Indian administration working to improve India. No fucks given otherwise. Running a country is not all about weapons and where you buy them.

 

[Blademaster]

We can make all the choice we want, but are we ready for the consequences?

India can fund and buy from Russian MIC, but what are we to do with the consequences and repercussions from such a move? Are we ready for increasing US hostility towards us? All our high-tech things come from there and their allies. If we are to make a move, we must justify the profit being greater than the costs.

Who cares about pro-West, pro-Russia? All I care about is the Indian administration working to improve India. No fucks given otherwise. Running a country is not all about weapons and where you buy them.

Even the western world is trying to interfere with the GoI working to improve India. Hindenburg anyone? Attacking the Indian Pharmacy industry??

As for US hostility, we are gonna get that anyway. Just get it out of the way and be done with it and move forward. The problem with relying on western teat is that it postpones our ability to become self reliant. It is this fear that paralyzes us from making the necessary and critical decisions to become self reliant.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Really mate, I can't get what exactly is your problem

If a russian weapon suits us the best, then we should go for it regardless of what the western world says.

Isn't that exactly what we have done since ages?
We were so much pressurized with CAATSA, we're lured by F-35 and still we went with S-400.

If a western weapon suits us the best, we should go for it regardless of what the russians say.

Isn't that exactly what we have done since ages?
We were forced so much to buy AK308, they even promised us local production but still we went with SIG 716i.

However, we should be going our own way as we see fit.

Isn't that exactly what we have done since ages?
When was the last time we imported a destroyer?

Look at their societies. They have become totally bastardized and lost their own sense of identity and have submerged their cultural identity in subservience to the western culture.
Look at the western attempt to Christianize India.

Muslim have forced and Christian have lured us to leave our religion and accept their. Commendable work on their part.
What exactly have we done to prevent our people from leaving our religion? What have we done to make others leave theirs and join ours?

If your bae sleeps with your best friend then way before asking her or your best friend you need ask yourself what exactly has been lacking in you that she needed him.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Here we go again

Hindenburg anyone?

Really mate, you believe it's a hit job?
They are short sellers, it's their very basic nature to crash stocks.
But shouldn't you question Adanis why they gave them even one reason to point fingers at them? Or why after 150 years of business not a single Hindenburg report is there on Tatas?

Attacking the Indian Pharmacy industry?

It's a fair play. That's what everyone does.

Where were you when Rahul Sharma of Micromax was milking Galwan Clash to make people buy his phones insted of Xiaomi and Realme?

 

[Blademaster]

Really mate, I can't get what exactly is your problem


Isn't that exactly what we have done since ages?
We were so much pressurized with CAATSA, we're lured by F-35 and still we went with S-400.

Isn't that exactly what we have done since ages?

Not really. We had to resort to gymnastic moves to get that done and we had so much trepidation about buying S-400s. This trepidation has paralyzed us in making other decisions that would have been far more beneficial such as purchasing more Su-30s and Krivak frigates to boost our combat capabilities.

We were forced so much to buy AK308, they even promised us local production but still we went with SIG 716i.

That factory is going nowhere. Why? Western pressure.

Isn't that exactly what we have done since ages?
When was the last time we imported a destroyer?

What about our other programs such as Arjun, Kaveri, LCH, LUH, ATAGs, NAMICA, WHAPs, etc.? We are delaying and engaging in dilatory tactics to avoid buying these in en masse because our military is still stuck on the western teat of tech.

Muslim have forced and Christian have lured us to leave our religion and accept their. Commendable work on their part.
What exactly have we done to prevent our people from leaving our religion? What have we done to make others leave theirs and join ours?

Everytime we try to do this, the western world cries foul and attempts to block our efforts to halt these conversions in the name of freedom and free speech etc.

If your bae sleeps with your best friend then way before asking her or your best friend you need ask yourself what exactly has been lacking in you that she needed him.

I do not know where you are going with that statement and how that is applicable to what we were discussing. It is totally off topic and not even remotely tangential to the topic we are having.

 

[Blademaster]

Here we go again

Really mate, you believe it's a hit job?
They are short sellers, it's their very basic nature to crash stocks.
But shouldn't you question Adanis why they gave them even one reason to point fingers at them? Or why after 150 years of business not a single Hindenburg report is there on Tatas?

And who has been promoting Hindenburg? Who has supplied Hindenburg with such info.

It's a fair play. That's what everyone does.

No it is not. They are banned from short selling in their own country and is under criminal investigation for market manipulation. Why is GoI not doing the same to Hindenburg? Because the west wont let GOI touch Hindenburg.

Where were you when Rahul Sharma of Micromax was milking Galwan Clash to make people buy his phones insted of Xiaomi and Realme?

What is your point? I am not the one buying Micromax or advocating buying Micromax so do not go around and pin that on me. Again whose fault is it when India cannot even produce its own phones due to the government's myopic attitude? Incidentially that blame should go to the UPA when they had every opportunity to engage in the smartphone industry but did diddly squat.

 

[Lonewarrior]

The reason why I am more pro Russia than pro Western is because Russia has learned its lesson of not dictating to us whereas the US and the West have not and continue to attempt to dictate India on what to do.

Yup, I also noticed your obsession with Russian. Su-30 and Krivaks and what not.

Can't you please remind me how exactly the cost of Vikramaditya was decided?
Or maybe who is Commodore Sukhjinder Singh?

That factory is going nowhere. Why? Western pressure

If you think that the factory is not going anywhere because of Western pressure then I can only facepalm mate

Arjun, Kaveri, LCH, LUH, ATAGs, NAMICA, WHAPs, etc.? We are delaying and engaging in dilatory tactics to avoid buying these in en masse because our military is still stuck on the western teat of tech.

For a second let's assume that there isn't a single flaw in these systems and still west is forcing us to not buy these.

But where exactly was this West when our very own Tonbo Imaging and MKU were selling products to not just West but to NATO?

Everytime we try to do this, the western world cries foul and attempts to block our efforts to halt these conversions in the name of freedom and free speech etc.

"halt these conversions" won't work ever.
Do you really think that you'll barge in any H-M wedding or beat the shit out of Missionaries and no one will object you?

 

[Blademaster]

Yup, I also noticed your obsession with Russian. Su-30 and Krivaks and what not.

They are the equivalent of the F-15Es and who in their right mind give up on these magnificent planes? They form a huge component of combat power of the IAF. We have 274 of these. So why would we give that up and trade it for F-15s that would only bankrupt India further? As for the Krivaks, I am only for it because India purchased 6 of these and all I care about is commonality of the fleet as to avoid different set of spares and achieve economy of scale. What's so hard about that to understand.

Can't you please remind me how exactly the cost of Vikramaditya was decided?

When the saga started, I was one of the few in the minority who advocated just drop this whole thing and go for our own indigenous aircraft carrier and build it. It would be ready before Vikramaditya would be ready. I was right.

Or maybe who is Commodore Sukhjinder Singh?

Ok I call you and raise you this: Nehru

If you think that the factory is not going anywhere because of Western pressure then I can only facepalm mate

Then bring in the facts pls instead of innuendo.

For a second let's assume that there isn't a single flaw in these systems and still west is forcing us to not buy these.

But where exactly was this West when our very own Tonbo Imaging and MKU were selling products to not just West but to NATO?

Who cares? As long as we have a willing buyer. We are independent.

"halt these conversions" won't work ever.
Do you really think that you'll barge in any H-M wedding or beat the shit out of Missionaries and no one will object you?

Why not? They have been doing this to the Hindus. Turnabout is fair play.

Are you sympathetic to the Western cause? Are you advocating that we should turn the other cheek and bend over in the typical Gandhi fashion?

 

[Lonewarrior]

Are you sympathetic to the Western cause? Are you advocating that we should turn the other cheek and bend over in the typical Gandhi fashion?

I was waiting for this

Naah mate; you're right and I'm wrong.
T-14 is the best tank, Su-57 is the best plane, AK-12 is the best rifle.

Peace out

 

[Blademaster]

I was waiting for this

Naah mate; you're right and I'm wrong.
T-14 is the best tank, Su-57 is the best plane, AK-12 is the best rifle.

Peace out

I never said that. Do you see me advocating getting those kind of weapons?I have been advocating getting the Arjun tanks, AMCA planes, and the rifle from SSS. Those are Indian made. But no, apparently to you, this means going the Russian way.

Nice way of subverting my original message into something else that I did not say or intend. And again you are using the same tactics employed by western libtards.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Even better is the Chinese way where on one hand you take no weapon or alliance and on other make US dependent on you.

And still I'm the one who gets branded as a western libtard
Weird world

 

[Blademaster]

And still I'm the one who gets branded as a western libtard
Weird world

I never branded you as a western libtard. All I said is that you are engaging in the same tactic or using the playbook created by the western libtards.

 

[jai jaganath]

They are the equivalent of the F-15Es and who in their right mind give up on these magnificent planes? They form a huge component of combat power of the IAF. We have 274 of these. So why would we give that up and trade it for F-15s that would only bankrupt India further? As for the Krivaks, I am only for it because India purchased 6 of these and all I care about is commonality of the fleet as to avoid different set of spares and achieve economy of scale. What's so hard about that to understand.


When the saga started, I was one of the few in the minority who advocated just drop this whole thing and go for our own indigenous aircraft carrier and build it. It would be ready before Vikramaditya would be ready. I was right.

Ok I call you and raise you this: Nehru

Then bring in the facts pls instead of innuendo.


Who cares? As long as we have a willing buyer. We are independent.


Why not? They have been doing this to the Hindus. Turnabout is fair play.

Are you sympathetic to the Western cause? Are you advocating that we should turn the other cheek and bend over in the typical Gandhi fashion?

Till 2000s mic wasn't able to see daylight was due to Soviet Union

 

[jai jaganath]

You'd rather have us off the "Western teat" and onto the "Russian teat". What use is ideology or religion if you're dying outside, hungry and naked? Isn't that basically how the Soviet Union went extinct too?

Or do you want us to cling onto "religion" and act like a "big country" with a "truly independent foreign policy" like Iran or Turkey whose religion has not been "bastardized" and "westernized"(aside from when it has)?

Religion isn't some book, actual humans practice them too. You want to cling onto a book and reject the human and their needs and welfare?

Once India can actually compare with countries like those, maybe then we can start to think about "getting off the Western teat".

Japan got nuked twice in 1945. South Korea got liberation from Japanese colonialism in 1945. Israeli was formed in 1948. India got independence in 1947.

Ask where we went wrong with our country first, then let's talk about religion and whatnot.
View attachment 192562

Socialism

 

[DumbPilot]

Socialism

The license raj system made sure that a lot of problems would pop out in our country, not just economically, but socially too, in working areas, the quality of output, the types of politicians elected with their policies, etc. What we started to gain in 1991, we should have started to gain from 1947.

It's been just 30 years, and we've grown so much and we still have space to grow. But if we do dumb stunts then this will be our fate:

And we don't even have the raw resources to sustain some of the pain.

 

[WarmongerLSK]

Hello peeps, I was travelling and out of luck met a person working in DRDO. Had less time so couldn't interact for long.

• He mentioned that HSTDV that was tested last week was supposed to be tested 2-3 months back but the Chinese vessel was in Indian Ocean and hence it was postponed.
• VSHORADS will be tested shoulder mounted in the coming months.
• Pralay will also be tested in the coming months.
• Money has been allocated for Agni missile test for more range, they might try for 6500 KM or 7000 KM.
• Slots are assigned for the missiles tests on the Abdul Kalam island and they must be booked.

 

[Tridev123]

And still I'm the one who gets branded as a western libtard
Weird world

I am a bit surprised by your total backing of the United States.
Uncle Sam can do no wrong. Right.

I hope some members do not feel that the Americans have completely hypnotised you.

The Pentagon and the CIA have an horrendous record of political assassinations and human rights violations in South America and Central America.
Just taking one example.
Unconfirmed reports name some of the victims as Che Guevara and Salvador Allende.

To remain unbiased the KGB also had an record of such undesirable activities. They were no saints.

I am not an Russian supporter. But only support Russia whenever their actions have helped India and Indian interests.

The United States is not all bad. But even they harbour some neo Nazi elements who would like to maintain the global supremacy of Washington using all means available.

There are good things to be said about the US. Like being a source of high technology, impressive innovation, democratic background etc.

But this admiration for the US should not blind us to the bad deeds that sections of the US administration and its intelligence services have carried out in various parts of the world.

The Americans have an very mixed record in India. Their instigation of the Bhima Koregoan riots is still fresh in the minds of the public. Supposedly an fight for the rights of the Dalits. If the objective was only that, then maybe an rightful political fight.

But what was sought to be achieved by creating an law and order problem. Pressurising the State and Central Governments. Creating a threat of large scale caste riots.

The unstated objective of the the master minds was to completely scuttle the Data Localisation Bill. A bill which would have forced the US Tech Giants to use only servers based in India to store data of Indian citizens.

The personal data of Indian citizens would stay within India and not be available to anyone in Washington or New York or any other foreign city.

The US government and the big Tech companies did not want that. One reason is that their costs will increase.

Unfortunately their pressure tactics worked and the Central Government put that Bill into deep freeze. The Government did it to avoid an region wide caste clash and not look anti Dalit in the eyes of the public.

If it was an fully indigenous movement, then no problem. Every section of society has the right to protest for upholding their rights. Violence should be taboo. Democratic means are preferable.

Is there proof that the CIA orchestrated the riots. No. There will be no proof. But people working in our intelligence agencies know the truth.

At the behest of Corporate America sections of the US administration created an major law and order problem in India to armtwist the Indian Government to roll back an proposed law.

Can any patriotic Indian really support such actions by the United States.

You can dismiss the whole conspiracy theory as an figment of imagination and believe that the Americans are God's chosen people who can do no wrong.

Or you can accept that many a times the actions of the Americans are not exactly pro India.

There is no harm in learning the good things and practices from the Americans. But we should also keep our eyes open for unnecessary and undesirable foreign intervention in our internal affairs.

The strategic interests of India and the United States need not coincide at all times and on every issue. What could be right for New Delhi may not suit Washington.

Bye, bro.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Someone has to put IAF and MoD on a frickin cross like Jesus. The question is if they wanted a MTA all these times, what the hell were they doin?
Did we even tried to make an effort for indigenous alternative? Il-214 was approach but it why didn't we follow through with something else when it was cancelled?

Someone has to ask the treatment indigenous products are given by IAF. Aeronautical products already have a long gestation period and not planning for a long term effectively kills any kind of planned project initiated hurriedly.