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Marliii

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shiphone

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LOL....you guys need open your eyes with some common sense...

this is a typical 'SSO' mission Launch trajectory from China inland launch site ... repeat ,this is 'SSO' mission..
the YuanWang ships are needed in some missions for early stage aerospace measurement & control . since the Ground track of sub-satellite point of the Launch trajectory includes indian ocean(east part) , the YuanWangs would be deployed here on this 'track'...as simple as that.

there are three sites launching the SSO mission and that's why the YuanWang had such toing and froing between east part of indian ocean and south china sea via Malacca -- she had to be deployed on the right Ground track of sub-satellite point...

2019051421175978.png


微信截图_20221203231656.png


China keeps having such launch frequency every year and quite of them are SSO missions. so YuanWangs actually were here from time to time in the past years or decades...lol
 
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The Shrike

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Why? Hawks have good eyesight, if they have been trained to take out drones they will do just fine I think. I dont think FPV camera is used to detect drone, I think thats just for human on ground to see what is happening to hawk and what its doing, if it takes down something where to collect it etc.

They wont take down big hexacopters or anything, but small quadcopters should be doable.
I'm not talking about FPV camera, but a more basic question - how do you detect the UAV in the first place? Human Eyeballs (and ears) Mk1?
 

arnabmit

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some interesting facts&logic from ukraine war



--> whats our production rate for drones ?
Average life expectancy of fixed-wing drone was six flights; that of a quadcopter a paltry three.

Electronic warfare played (and is playing) a big role. But "fratricide is a systemic issue between Russian systems,


--> need masssive stockpile for ammo / shells
At peak in Donbas Russia using "more ammunition in two days than entire British military has in stock". At Ukr rates of use UK stocks would "potentially last a week."

-----> nooo tent cities , something china is doing at LAC , we dont .
"The historical approach of the [ARRC] and 3 UK Division of erecting tented cities – command posts with a large physical footprint – is non-viable in wartime on the modern battlefield. These sites will be identified and struck."


Survival depends on "defeating precision". Three main ways to do it: stop a launcher from determining its own position, preventing enemy from locating you, or interfering with "mechanism for precision strike" (e.g. jamming its navigation signals with EW)


--> *cough* *cough* china
This is where countries with large manufacturing cabailities will succeed. Billion dollar systems vs virtually unlimited, disposable, cheap drone swarms
There need to be cheap C-RAMU missiles & gun-based air-burst munition. There's no escaping that.

Current/upcoming systems:
  • Iron Dome (Tamir interceptors are too costly)
  • Halcon SkyKnight (upcoming)
  • Skyranger 35
  • Nexter/Thales RAPIDfire CTAS40
  • BM-57
 

rodeo

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There need to be cheap C-RAMU missiles & gun-based air-burst munition. There's no escaping that.
You mean something like this?

GOKDENIZ CLOSE-IN WEAPON SYSTEM (CIWS) GOKDENIZ CIWS along with 35 mm Airburst Ammunition (ATOM) developed by ASELSAN is a close-in weapon system (CIWS) highly effective against anti-ship missiles. The system with the Automatic Linkless Ammunition Feed Mechanism allows loading both HEI and Airburst Ammunition at the same time and switching between ammunition types as needed. In addition to anti-ship missiles, GOKDENIZ is also effective against helicopters, fighters, UAVs and asymmetric surface naval threats.




 

Kuldeepm952

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Ok, so I was thinking there is no real thread here discussing the composition of Pakistan army units of various types, their platforms and weapons composition and their tactics which they are supposed to follow in case of war with India. One has to know the enemy you know. Anyone knowledgeable maybe start that other can contribute.

Also what do you think about Indian Army Training doctrine, I reached a conclusion that our training regime is purely focused on pre 2000s concept and that it is intentionally kept that way to keep it plain foolproof simple without relying on complex multi steps. It perhaps come from the fact that either the army doesn't see cost to benefit in introducing new training regime or it is of view that most soldiers are not capable of imparting it into themselves maybe due to various reasons such as educational background which I don't agree with and can be done away with more training.

Also, if you see today many western armies today, especially the ones with less number of soldiers have their kit equivalent or even better to wester SFs of 2000s. Ofcourse they are trained well to use them. Does this make you wonder what goes inside our Generals head when they compare this sad state or they live on their own dreamland. Do we even have a war studies group in IA, just asking.
 

Corvus Splendens

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You mean something like this?

GOKDENIZ CLOSE-IN WEAPON SYSTEM (CIWS) GOKDENIZ CIWS along with 35 mm Airburst Ammunition (ATOM) developed by ASELSAN is a close-in weapon system (CIWS) highly effective against anti-ship missiles. The system with the Automatic Linkless Ammunition Feed Mechanism allows loading both HEI and Airburst Ammunition at the same time and switching between ammunition types as needed. In addition to anti-ship missiles, GOKDENIZ is also effective against helicopters, fighters, UAVs and asymmetric surface naval threats.




yes the Rheinmetall Millenium/Skyshield with AHEAD ammo is certainly ideal.
 

Kuldeepm952

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Nope , that's a too low rate of fire 300 rpm , we need atleast two of them
Does rate of fire is really necessary when a 40mm 3P ammo consists of 1100 spherical prefragments, basically you fire a 5 round burst and form a cloud of pellets so that some of it hit the targets. More the fragments denser the cloud and less ammo needed per effective engagement.
Now, come to rheinmetall gun, it's 35mm AHEAD ammo consists of 152 cylindrical prefragments and it's config also requires 2 guns per system and a fire control radar/system, very similiar to L&T gun.

I don't really see any significant advantage of rheinmetall 35mm orleikon over L&T Bofors gun other than perhaps in ammo carried but then again fragments number per bullet are very different, theoretically making L&T gun better for smaller targets.

Imo the best solution would be a Gatling gun type system with programmable ammo and high ammo count if you need a effective gun based CRAM system.
 

The Shrike

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Humans dont detect at all na. The hawk detects it, and takes it down. If Hawks can be trained to do complicated circus tricks I dont see why they cant identify drones.
I highly doubt that, the closest this is related to is falconry - and those birds need to be carefully kept, a lot of times with their eyes hooded (AFAIK). There are not exactly flying gard doggos. I'm not aure they are nocturnal either - if there is a drone flying at say 1km distance at night is it even possible for the human or the bird the actual see it? I highly doubt.
 

Tridev123

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Why? Hawks have good eyesight, if they have been trained to take out drones they will do just fine I think. I dont think FPV camera is used to detect drone, I think thats just for human on ground to see what is happening to hawk and what its doing, if it takes down something where to collect it etc.

They wont take down big hexacopters or anything, but small quadcopters should be doable.
All good. A new and novel strategy to bring down drones.
But the question is - how exactly will the hawk/eagle/raptor bring down the drone.
Even if it is a small quad copter drone, the heli blades will be rotating at hundreds of RPM. The metal blades or even composite plastic blades will cut through the soft tissue of the bird. In nature these birds of prey will swoop down and use its claws to grab and kill smaller birds.

Now grabbing a rotating object in the sky may seriously injure or even kill the predator.

So how does the Hawk/Eagle actually accomplish its task.

Even if it is a conventional fixed wing drone, it will most probably have a small turboprop or turbofan engine. The exhaust temperature of even a small turbofan engine will be in hundreds of Degrees Celsius. A turboprop engine will again have fast rotating propellers.

The risk of injury to the Hawk bird still persists.

The claws of the Hawk bird are certainly not made of steel. Or have they armour plated its claws.

I think it would be interesting to know the answer. What SOP's have been devised.
 

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