DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[johnj]

Have we learnt anything at all from Ukraine War.
Lol, now this stupid blanket statement again from IAF chief while simping for foreign fighter that too a 4+gen plane, had it been a 5th gen it would have been understandable but alas they don't like su57 and no one else would give their 5th gen to IAF, ofcourse there's some truth to it, but how about we see the advantages of UAV and how they bring huge asymmetry if used correctly instead of just labelling them of no use.
There are two countries from which we can learn if we really want to, one is IRAN in case of cheap high impact UAVs and loitering munitions, other is CHINA in case of high end novel systems. I am quite sure that both have taken a strategic decision quite a time ago to focus on unmanned capability to gain advantage compared to adversaries.
And doesn't IAF chief has confidence of highly degrading Pakistani air defenses in first quarter of the war, after which UAVs will be able to lessen the burden on manned assets and they can be reserved for high end missions.
UAVs have limited impact in a Warzone, and I was thinking we'll be stone aging the Pakistan Air defenses but the IAF chief seems to think otherwise, I didnt knew Pakistan was so strong in air defenses, pun intended.

lol, your comments proves that IAF is right & drones are useless.
Read your comment from bottom para to top, first need to destroy AD, for that, IAF need manned aircraft, so basically iaf need manned aircraft urgently not a drone.
Its sad to see a lots of people becomes prey of IAF propaganda. IAF making such decisions to find money for MRFA, also reducing no.if lca requirement etc. Its not the first time IAF ditch drones to favour mmrca.
IAF need both 4.5gen jet & drones, and demand of drone will increase due to 5/6th gen jets. Here IAF talking about high end drones & a single drone s/m cost around 100 mil $. aka 1 bil for 10 drone.
GoI need to add 4.5gen jet to -ve list, consider Israel armed drones options, fast track mk2 & more mk1a/b.

 

[dfcool]

Have we learnt anything at all from Ukraine War.
Lol, now this stupid blanket statement again from IAF chief while simping for foreign fighter that too a 4+gen plane, had it been a 5th gen it would have been understandable but alas they don't like su57 and no one else would give their 5th gen to IAF, ofcourse there's some truth to it, but how about we see the advantages of UAV and how they bring huge asymmetry if used correctly instead of just labelling them of no use.
There are two countries from which we can learn if we really want to, one is IRAN in case of cheap high impact UAVs and loitering munitions, other is CHINA in case of high end novel systems. I am quite sure that both have taken a strategic decision quite a time ago to focus on unmanned capability to gain advantage compared to adversaries.


Quite a few good arguments given in the video

The Oryx Handbook Of Iranian Drones

www.oryxspioenkop.com

And doesn't IAF chief has confidence of highly degrading Pakistani air defenses in first quarter of the war, after which UAVs will be able to lessen the burden on manned assets and they can be reserved for high end missions.

UAVs have limited impact in a Warzone, and I was thinking we'll be stone aging the Pakistan Air defenses but the IAF chief seems to think otherwise, I didnt knew Pakistan was so strong in air defenses, pun intended.

I think he is talking about UAVs (MALE, HALE) not swarm drones and loitering munitions.

Big UAV are like civil airplanes they are highly vulnerable to AD systems which both India and china posses.

Turkey created this narrative of their cheap UAV are winning the war until russia came in with Pantsir systems, fighter jets and destroyed most of them.

UAVs are good for reconnaissance which India already have.

I am not against UAVs, india must have enough UAVs in case if we want to use them. But a better solution would be stealth UAVs, kamikaze drones (aka loitering munitions), swarm drones etc.

This is my POV about UAVs but if you have different opinions please share.

 

[Fatalis]

Credits: Twitter

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

lol, your comments proves that IAF is right & drones are useless.
Read your comment from bottom para to top, first need to destroy AD, for that, IAF need manned aircraft, so basically iaf need manned aircraft urgently not a drone.
Its sad to see a lots of people becomes prey of IAF propaganda. IAF making such decisions to find money for MRFA, also reducing no.if lca requirement etc. Its not the first time IAF ditch drones to favour mmrca.
IAF need both 4.5gen jet & drones, and demand of drone will increase due to 5/6th gen jets. Here IAF talking about high end drones & a single drone s/m cost around 100 mil $. aka 1 bil for 10 drone.
GoI need to add 4.5gen jet to -ve list, consider Israel armed drones options, fast track mk2 & more mk1a/b.

But sir itna useless he ke not even worth getting some male/hale ucavs? Our own projects are nowhere after years of testing and flying project cheetah is as real as aliens rn with no timeline drdo started work on new male/hale while previous ones inspire no confidence

 

[mokoman]

Have we learnt anything at all from Ukraine War.
Lol, now this stupid blanket statement again from IAF chief while simping for foreign fighter that too a 4+gen plane, had it been a 5th gen it would have been understandable but alas they don't like su57 and no one else would give their 5th gen to IAF, ofcourse there's some truth to it, but how about we see the advantages of UAV and how they bring huge asymmetry if used correctly instead of just labelling them of no use.
There are two countries from which we can learn if we really want to, one is IRAN in case of cheap high impact UAVs and loitering munitions, other is CHINA in case of high end novel systems. I am quite sure that both have taken a strategic decision quite a time ago to focus on unmanned capability to gain advantage compared to adversaries.


Quite a few good arguments given in the video

The Oryx Handbook Of Iranian Drones

www.oryxspioenkop.com

And doesn't IAF chief has confidence of highly degrading Pakistani air defenses in first quarter of the war, after which UAVs will be able to lessen the burden on manned assets and they can be reserved for high end missions.

UAVs have limited impact in a Warzone, and I was thinking we'll be stone aging the Pakistan Air defenses but the IAF chief seems to think otherwise, I didnt knew Pakistan was so strong in air defenses, pun intended.

not "exactly" what he said.

Drones Had Limited Impact In Ukraine War As Battle Shifted East: IAF Chief

Remotely-piloted aircraft are highly vulnerable to layered air defence, Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari tells BW Businessworld’s Vishal Thapar in an exclusive interview, , indian air force, Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhuri, Aatmanirbhar Bharat, make in india, AMCA, LCA Mk-2, ADA...

www.businessworld.in

Q. What is the big lesson for India from recent international conflicts particularly the one in Ukraine? Also, what is the position on spares of Russian origin equipment?

A. The Russian-Ukraine war has thrown up plenty of lessons which can be gleaned from operations of both sides. The resilience of air power has been demonstrated in this extended war, where we have seen the Ukrainian air force managing to protect its assets and retain the capability to conduct limited offensive operations. The need for use of air power to shape the battlefield and to enable the conduct of ground operations has clearly become evident. It has also shown that a sustained DEAD (Destruction of Enemy Air Defences) campaign is important to achieve the desired objectives. Similarly, a full spectrum AD capability is needed which includes weapons ranging from shoulder launched missiles to long ranged surface-to-air-missiles (SAMs).

Inputs about the effectiveness of the Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPAs) have been mixed. While initial reports were largely positive, as the major action shifted to the East, where a structured Russian AD system was available, most inputs indicate high vulnerability and limited impact. This highlighted the need for a multi-layered and ranged air defence system with both hard and soft kill options for dealing with RPAs. However, definitive conclusions can only be reached once the entire context and conditions become clear. There has been some impact on supply of spares but we have put in place certain mitigation measures. There has also been a concerted effort to indigenise spares of imported fleets to reduce our dependence on foreign sources.

 

[Suryavanshi]

View attachment 184015

Credits: Twitter

Ctc: 36 lakhs.
In hand:

 

[mokoman]

View attachment 184015

Credits: Twitter

just me or does this company seem all PR and no substance .

 

[Delta Squad]

not "exactly" what he said.

Drones Had Limited Impact In Ukraine War As Battle Shifted East: IAF Chief

Remotely-piloted aircraft are highly vulnerable to layered air defence, Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhari tells BW Businessworld’s Vishal Thapar in an exclusive interview, , indian air force, Air Chief Marshal Vivek Ram Chaudhuri, Aatmanirbhar Bharat, make in india, AMCA, LCA Mk-2, ADA...

www.businessworld.in

Q. What is the big lesson for India from recent international conflicts particularly the one in Ukraine? Also, what is the position on spares of Russian origin equipment?

A. The Russian-Ukraine war has thrown up plenty of lessons which can be gleaned from operations of both sides. The resilience of air power has been demonstrated in this extended war, where we have seen the Ukrainian air force managing to protect its assets and retain the capability to conduct limited offensive operations. The need for use of air power to shape the battlefield and to enable the conduct of ground operations has clearly become evident. It has also shown that a sustained DEAD (Destruction of Enemy Air Defences) campaign is important to achieve the desired objectives. Similarly, a full spectrum AD capability is needed which includes weapons ranging from shoulder launched missiles to long ranged surface-to-air-missiles (SAMs).

Inputs about the effectiveness of the Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPAs) have been mixed. While initial reports were largely positive, as the major action shifted to the East, where a structured Russian AD system was available, most inputs indicate high vulnerability and limited impact. This highlighted the need for a multi-layered and ranged air defence system with both hard and soft kill options for dealing with RPAs. However, definitive conclusions can only be reached once the entire context and conditions become clear. There has been some impact on supply of spares but we have put in place certain mitigation measures. There has also been a concerted effort to indigenise spares of imported fleets to reduce our dependence on foreign sources.

That's Indian Defence Exfarts for you...

 

[Jambudweepa]

Have we learnt anything at all from Ukraine War.
Lol, now this stupid blanket statement again from IAF chief while simping for foreign fighter that too a 4+gen plane, had it been a 5th gen it would have been understandable but alas they don't like su57 and no one else would give their 5th gen to IAF, ofcourse there's some truth to it, but how about we see the advantages of UAV and how they bring huge asymmetry if used correctly instead of just labelling them of no use.
There are two countries from which we can learn if we really want to, one is IRAN in case of cheap high impact UAVs and loitering munitions, other is CHINA in case of high end novel systems. I am quite sure that both have taken a strategic decision quite a time ago to focus on unmanned capability to gain advantage compared to adversaries.


Quite a few good arguments given in the video

The Oryx Handbook Of Iranian Drones

www.oryxspioenkop.com

And doesn't IAF chief has confidence of highly degrading Pakistani air defenses in first quarter of the war, after which UAVs will be able to lessen the burden on manned assets and they can be reserved for high end missions.

UAVs have limited impact in a Warzone, and I was thinking we'll be stone aging the Pakistan Air defenses but the IAF chief seems to think otherwise, I didnt knew Pakistan was so strong in air defenses, pun intended.

In contested air space ,weapon carrying drone ll have less impact . But there is always use of loitering munitions , swarm , drones for ISR , drone as wingman for fighter jets . May be stealth design ll be more potent .

But if qus is whether india should invest in weapon carrying drones , then i ll say yes . Our borders are large . I dont think all of it can be covered by air defence and jammers for a long time . After few days of bombing there ll be gap . And its useful to use drone in that scenario , as it ll be cheap and wont cost human life .

Second , what if there is a balakot type situation again . And pakistan uses drones . Drones can be downed but , atleast there wont be loss of pilot for some symbolical strikes .

3rd Not all threat have air defence and EW system . We dont know in future from where threat ll emerge . It can be with in country or some other country excluding china and pakistan .

4th why defence psus and companies should only think about indian scenario . There is plenty of export opportunity .

5th China claim its winglong 3 has a range of 10,000 km and weapon carrying capacity of 2 tons .

China Claims 10,000 Km Range For Its Wing Loong-3 UAVs; Performs Anti-Sub, Air, Land & Rescue Ops In A Promo Sortie -- Watch

The Wing Loong-3 UAV has become a top attraction in the Zhuhai Air Show, marking a milestone in Chinese homegrown drone manufacturing capability. A video of the system performing a series of extreme missions, including anti-submarine warfare (ASW), ground strike, maritime strike, and search and...

eurasiantimes.com

Even if there is some exaggeration , this provides a considerable flexibility and power projection . It can enter our airspace from anywhere it likes . Where ll you put your jammers and air defence .

 

[SavageKing456]

Accountability in DRDO.
How do you even go about doing this?
There are successful national research agencies in other countries too but they don't seem to face the same issues as DRDO, why us specifically.

Handling of projects
Drdo handles much more projects with limited budget
All pressure is on them

 

[johnj]

I think he is talking about UAVs (MALE, HALE) not swarm drones and loitering munitions.

Big UAV are like civil airplanes they are highly vulnerable to AD systems which both India and china posses.

Turkey created this narrative of their cheap UAV are winning the war until russia came in with Pantsir systems, fighter jets and destroyed most of them.

UAVs are good for reconnaissance which India already have.

I am not against UAVs, india must have enough UAVs in case if we want to use them. But a better solution would be stealth UAVs, kamikaze drones (aka loitering munitions), swarm drones etc.

This is my POV about UAVs but if you have different opinions please share.

Yes, ACM talking about US drone purchase, costs 3 billion $ for 30 drones, and PAF capable of bringing them down using ew, anti drone s/ms , ADs etc, & not about kamikaze drone, air launched loitering munitions & swarm drones, CATS etc, & pointing indian foreign policy.
Turkey used fighter jets & land based EW to support their drones. With out proper support drones becomes easy target of enemy anti drone/AD s/ms, including stealth drone that why 6th gen need manned option & loyal wingman need a manned command jet.
Drones can do a lot of things from transport, reconnaissance, surveillance to attack, and in future, military depends more on drones due to high maintenance price of stealth tech.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

lol, your comments proves that IAF is right & drones are useless.
Read your comment from bottom para to top, first need to destroy AD, for that, IAF need manned aircraft, so basically iaf need manned aircraft urgently not a drone.
Its sad to see a lots of people becomes prey of IAF propaganda. IAF making such decisions to find money for MRFA, also reducing no.if lca requirement etc. Its not the first time IAF ditch drones to favour mmrca.
IAF need both 4.5gen jet & drones, and demand of drone will increase due to 5/6th gen jets. Here IAF talking about high end drones & a single drone s/m cost around 100 mil $. aka 1 bil for 10 drone.
GoI need to add 4.5gen jet to -ve list, consider Israel armed drones options, fast track mk2 & more mk1a/b.

As I said the blanket statement is highly wrong, a class of UAVs may be not cost capability effective depending in which time of war it is studied.
I absolutely ditch the idea that war will be short and Swift, that's fool fantasy, like any country will backdown with a defeat in their face wether be China or Pak.
We absolutely do need HALE UAVs a lot of various classes including stealth ones for ISR roles, intelligence is indeed power and guess what, our Paki neighbour has very limited high altitude air defense which are probably long range SAMs, and you know why we are going lengths to develop upto 500km class ARMs like Rudram3 and other Rudram series missiles, so I don't understand how UAVs are not useful.
Atleast in Pak theatre, after initial period, UAVs will be absolute beneficial. Not only that freeing capability to focus on China threat. There are various scenarios in Pak in which UAVs will be very capable.
I am not talking about the lethality of loitering munitions, swarms and mini uavs here, i believe you agree on that too.
There are serious good points in support of UAVs, depending on the type and the adversary so I don't know why do you believe UAVs are useless.
To be clear, I am not talking about 4+gen fighters here, the fleet strength is the making of their own fu*k ups so no benefit in crying wolf like sitting in mk1a deal signing for years and other things. My point here is about UAVs only and their benefits.
I doubt Chinese are stupid to focus so much on UAVs but then again the pace of their adopting anything that can give them advantage over others is superb.

With UAVs my focus in Pak theatre.

 

[johnj]

But sir itna useless he ke not even worth getting some male/hale ucavs? Our own projects are nowhere after years of testing and flying project cheetah is as real as aliens rn with no timeline drdo started work on new male/hale while previous ones inspire no confidence

Plez don't call me sir.
Every thing depends on money & necessity. IAF badly need mrfa like amca, lca mk2, rafale etc and spending 100mil for a single drone is unwise & iaf having enough sar drones. Better to spend on air launched drones, lch, mk2, mk1, alh mk3, atgm for mi17 etc.
Before considering male/hale ucavs, lets consider its benefits, its equipped with short range missiles, need ground stations, depends on US statcom/nav etc and US don't allow to use it against US allay and Chinese can shoot down them very easily, I'm unable to see any benefit except cas in friendly area & lch is better in that role. Israel tp armed drones & modifying current existing one to armed ones is better than US offer.
Its my opinion.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Plez don't call me sir.
Every thing depends on money & necessity. IAF badly need mrfa like amca, lca mk2, rafale etc and spending 100mil for a single drone is unwise & iaf having enough sar drones. Better to spend on air launched drones, lch, mk2, mk1, alh mk3, atgm for mi17 etc.
Before considering male/hale ucavs, lets consider its benefits, its equipped with short range missiles, need ground stations, depends on US statcom/nav etc and US don't allow to use it against US allay and Chinese can shoot down them very easily, I'm unable to see any benefit except cas in friendly area & lch is better in that role. Israel tp armed drones & modifying current existing one to armed ones is better than US offer.
Its my opinion.

I am not even considering us offer that is just too expensive for us I am just talking about project cheetah it needs to be fast tracked with strict timelines and Archer drones should get some orders atleast rustom is god knows where and maybe drdo should think about an Avenger type drone with internal bay? We have heroen drones so we can leave twin turbo ucavs for now

 

[Kuldeepm952]

I don't know guys when was a last major large foreign deal was signed, MMRCA came nothing happened, P75I is on indefinite delay, LPD got delayed too, in the end nothing happened to any of Indian Army RFI to foreign vendors. Only C295 happened though IL214 got axed.

I am blackpilled and almost sure that nothing will happen to MRFA unless MoD wants a private player into aircraft manufacturing and not withstating the fact that the first plane won't be out of Indian factory before 2030 if it happens at all, putting all reasonable doubts on inducting a 4+gen plane in face of Tejas mk2 mwf.

Sometimes I think if there is even a sense of urgency in MRFA and all this drama of urgency is utter sham, apparently the RFP is to be out somewhere near 2024 and God knows if it will even reach deal signing. Only things that seems achievable are indigenous projects and yet I don't know why people are so optimistic about MRFA.

 

[johnj]

As I said the blanket statement is highly wrong, a class of UAVs may be not cost capability effective depending in which time of war it is studied.
I absolutely ditch the idea that war will be short and Swift, that's fool fantasy, like any country will backdown with a defeat in their face wether be China or Pak.
We absolutely do need HALE UAVs a lot of various classes including stealth ones for ISR roles, intelligence is indeed power and guess what, our Paki neighbour has very limited high altitude air defense which are probably long range SAMs, and you know why we are going lengths to develop upto 500km class ARMs like Rudram3 and other Rudram series missiles, so I don't understand how UAVs are not useful.
Atleast in Pak theatre, after initial period, UAVs will be absolute beneficial. Not only that freeing capability to focus on China threat. There are various scenarios in Pak in which UAVs will be very capable.
I am not talking about the lethality of loitering munitions, swarms and mini uavs here, i believe you agree on that too.
There are serious good points in support of UAVs, depending on the type and the adversary so I don't know why do you believe UAVs are useless.
To be clear, I am not talking about 4+gen fighters here, the fleet strength is the making of their own fu*k ups so no benefit in crying wolf like sitting in mk1a deal signing for years and other things. My point here is about UAVs only and their benefits.
I doubt Chinese are stupid to focus so much on UAVs but then again the pace of their adopting anything that can give them advantage over others is superb.

I'm not talking about drone, but your previous comment & Mmrca.
Air defence [AD] can done using not only sam s/ms but also using ew, anti drone tech, and ofcourse fighter jets .
War, Since its IAF is going to fight, not me or you, why can't you consider what IAF saying. Here IAF saying about 100mil drone against Pak/chinese AD.
I'm not against any kind of drones, but considering IAF necessity vs requirement.
Considering your comment- ''you know why we are going lengths to develop upto 500km class ARMs like Rudram3 and other Rudram series missiles'' & ''To be clear, I am not talking about 4+gen fighters here, the fleet strength is the making of their own fu*k ups so no benefit in crying wolf like sitting in mk1a deal signing for years and other things.'' & and these things related to each other, and becz ARM missile need a jet to carry them. & ''My point here is about UAVs only and their benefits.'' you choose a wrong post.
''I doubt Chinese are stupid to focus so much on UAVs but then again the pace of their adopting anything that can give them advantage over others is superb.'' do you have any idea how many 4.5 & 5th get jet chinese having,
You totally missed '' IAF Chief'' & only considered ''UAVs are highly vulnerable and have limited impact in a Warzone'' - here no one against you, including IAF Chief, but he only saying about the difference b/w necessity & requirement, and manned jets are necessity & h/male uav a requirement & rudram need a carrier, don't they ? to destroy sams ? IAF will buy drdo m/hale & stealth drones in future, but currently more focused on 4.5 gen jets. Also PAF operates hq9 series long range sams

 

[johnj]

I am not even considering us offer that is just too expensive for us I am just talking about project cheetah it needs to be fast tracked with strict timelines and Archer drones should get some orders atleast rustom is god knows where and maybe drdo should think about an Avenger type drone with internal bay? We have heroen drones so we can leave twin turbo ucavs for now

Agreed, and DRDO Ghatak is similar to Avenger. Drdo need to fix issue of hale/male drones & lrlacm asap and completion on/before time. Single turbo ucav also sounds great.

 

[rodeo]

If you don't develop advanced drones you'll be a customer for it and will pay hefty prices for a few of them. That is if you can buy it. Assuming you can buy, it'll be an export version.

Some of the users here, mistakenly, think of TB2s or Reapers when asked about drones. That's like driving a car by looking into rear view mirror. Within a decade you'll see the proliferation sophisticated drones with stealth characteristics and stand-off missiles. They would be able to perform deep-strike operations and air to air warfare in contested air space. If this technology is coupled with advanced AI, it'll be a suicide to send your seasoned pilots to take on a drone that can make decisions 50 times a second. Imagine dealing with a few squadron of these UCAVs that move and act like a hive mind. They'll render your whole air force useless.

This technology won't actualize in a day. It'll take time to develop. You can play deaf all you want during this period until someone hits you in the head with a brick. So don't kid yourself and take this seriously today.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Agreed, and DRDO Ghatak is similar to Avenger. Drdo need to fix issue of hale/male drones & lrlacm asap and completion on/before time. Single turbo ucav also sounds great.

With rustom too I think problem was we didn't achieve the required hours so we basically need better engines

 

[Kuldeepm952]

I'm not talking about drone, but your previous comment & Mmrca.
Air defence [AD] can done using not only sam s/ms but also using ew, anti drone tech, and ofcourse fighter jets .
War, Since its IAF is going to fight, not me or you, why can't you consider what IAF saying. Here IAF saying about 100mil drone against Pak/chinese AD.
I'm not against any kind of drones, but considering IAF necessity vs requirement.
Considering your comment- ''you know why we are going lengths to develop upto 500km class ARMs like Rudram3 and other Rudram series missiles'' & ''To be clear, I am not talking about 4+gen fighters here, the fleet strength is the making of their own fu*k ups so no benefit in crying wolf like sitting in mk1a deal signing for years and other things.'' & and these things related to each other, and becz ARM missile need a jet to carry them. & ''My point here is about UAVs only and their benefits.'' you choose a wrong post.
''I doubt Chinese are stupid to focus so much on UAVs but then again the pace of their adopting anything that can give them advantage over others is superb.'' do you have any idea how many 4.5 & 5th get jet chinese having,
You totally missed '' IAF Chief'' & only considered ''UAVs are highly vulnerable and have limited impact in a Warzone'' - here no one against you, including IAF Chief, but he only saying about the difference b/w necessity & requirement, and manned jets are necessity & h/male uav a requirement & rudram need a carrier, don't they ? to destroy sams ? IAF will buy drdo m/hale & stealth drones in future, but currently more focused on 4.5 gen jets. Also PAF operates hq9 series long range sams

Is that even a point that Fighters before UAVs, no one is asking to choose UAVs as replacement for fighters. Now let's come on 4+ gen fighter that is MRFA.
Agreed that we need fighter jets but how optimistic are you about fighter jets deal of foreign origin that is MRFA, my issue is that why they taking so much time. If you have followed this, you know how long is this fiasco.
There is urgency, that is true, but the first RFP will be around 2024, so like a decade after MMRCA issue. Doesn't this run counter to urgency issue.

Another thing being that lets say deal is signed, now assume how early will that be, probably not before 2027 in ideal timeline. Then there comes the issue of Indian weapons and systems integration, another problem being sharing of source codes which will allow us to upgrade on our own otherwise it's Mirage 2000 upgrade issue all over again in future. All the contendors will be moving to their respective 5th gen planes and may or may not upgrade their 4+ gen planes with 5th gen techs, so Chief idea of getting 4th gen plane with let alone 5th gen tech, he even said 6th gen tech presumably Manned Unmanned teaming and lasers, is highly doubtful when the original countries may not be using themselves.

I can provide nth number of things which foreign vendors in their right would think twice before providing. Negotiating all these terms would be very problematic so that we don't end up with past mistakes. I won't be surprised if Tejas mk2 gets inducted before MRFA deal signing at that point I assume

Lets come to main point, what is with this periodic comments about MRFA 4+ gen fighters, seems a little odd, is there something going within MoD and IAF and what's with the sudden foreign collaboration for techs for AMCA and can anyone specify what are those exactly aside from engines and HMDS.