DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Corvus Splendens]

 

[SUPERPOWER]

Till that max DODO uncles and aunties will get retired...

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

Might want to correct that number, more like 50 to 60%.
More than that the issue is timeline of purchase.
Procurement is literally the highest it has ever been and that too induction is the fastest it has ever been.
@ezsasa has 2021 Procurement record tracked more or less in one of his old post.

If members had made a list back in 2010 yo 2014 and compared the same to current one the list will come out 2 to 3 times longer ever after taking budget into account.

Shows you how pathetic procurement was in terms of speed in those old days.its like we had a peace dividend slowdown after the cold war just like the west even though our area did not become peaceful other than our immediate enemies became relatively economically weak compared to us.

I have a perception that our procurement improved between 1963 to 1991 and only became better after major reforms post 2014.is this true? I know that most of the systems before the cold war procured were Soviet equipment and our clear relations with the Soviets might have helped in speed and urgency of procurement.

 

[Chinmoy]

Sir, You mean to say requirements product made according to request laid by then serving Armed forces chief does not represent Army's requirement? The question is not only loyalty but on the weight of the words coming out of any Officer. Because this would mean no OEM should ever trust or entertain requests from any forces chief. Army could play such tantrums with PSU's but private sector would not have stomach nor wallet for such shenanigans.

I see roles for first two high altitudes. First two can be airlifted too, MGS again can be used in plains deserts and in well connected High Altitude Valleys. Personally I feel MGS still needs few more rounds of development and needs to be more compacted. ATAGS based MGS is not air transportable. Thats where MARG and Garuda shall hold key advantage apart from smaller footprint.

At first, don't get too emotional. Army chief don't lay down requirement or specification. What he did is that he had given an idea for BF to work upon and BF did it. Now was it a wrong thing to do? Absolutely not. This is how things in designing should work. But expecting that since the idea has been given by chief, IA is bound to order it is wrong.

By air lift I hope you are not expecting to drop the gun in firing position by helis. Garuda and MaRG no doubt holds upper hand on MGS. But MGS beats the other two hands down on range. So while deciding on the need, transportability would be one factor but not the only factor. As far as I know, MGS would be ~30ton. So basically it would be carried in the same C-17 & C-130 which would be used to carry MaRG. Personally I don't see it giving huge advantage to MaRG.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Till that max DODO uncles and aunties will get retired...

If its engine for male uav its probably a turbofan right? I hope we can do that much atleast

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Concept is cool would be great if its reality

 

[Bhaubai]

9 more ALH for ICG

adani coming with south Asia's largest ammunition factory in up defence corridor

 

[Chinmoy]

If its engine for male uav its probably a turbofan right? I hope we can do that much atleast

Turboprop. DRDO already developed 55 hp turboprop and successfully used it. This engine they are talking about a high rated 180hp engine in development.

 

[AnantS]

At first, don't get too emotional. Army chief don't lay down requirement or specification. What he did is that he had given an idea for BF to work upon and BF did it. Now was it a wrong thing to do? Absolutely not. This is how things in designing should work. But expecting that since the idea has been given by chief, IA is bound to order it is wrong.

No Sir - No company is going to design something on some airy words said by Chief. I am pretty sure there would have been substantial talks for both MGS and MArG to be taken seriously by BF and put money on to it. Infact If I remember correctly it was 105 on Tata LPTA was shown. Then an idea was given to marry cost effective ULH with Truck platform too. And thus thats how MArG was born. Its not about being emotional. I am just trying to say - Our Pvt corporations shall be reluctant to take up such Serious ideas coming from all future command officers - Nobody likes to burn own money on building products that shall never be bought.

By air lift I hope you are not expecting to drop the gun in firing position by helis. Garuda and MaRG no doubt holds upper hand on MGS. But MGS beats the other two hands down on range. So while deciding on the need, transportability would be one factor but not the only factor. As far as I know, MGS would be ~30ton. So basically it would be carried in the same C-17 & C-130 which would be used to carry MaRG. Personally I don't see it giving huge advantage to MaRG.

Agree MArG and MGS shall have to use same air transport options. MGS shall have range advantage over MArG, while MArG shall have smaller footprint advantage(ergo more maneuverable on those tight U turns on Himalayan roads). Now given MGS and MArG are being pursued by same company (MGS in collabration with BEML). Its to be seen if Army shall pick either of two or both shall meet same fate of being relegated to no orders or just token orders.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Turboprop. DRDO already developed 55 hp turboprop and successfully used it. This engine they are talking about a high rated 180hp engine in development.

Well I hope then its a reality in next 2 years would be a great boost for are uav programs

 

[Chinmoy]

No Sir - No company is going to design something on some airy words said by Chief. I am pretty sure there would have been substantial talks for both MGS and MArG to be taken seriously by BF and put money on to it. Infact If I remember correctly it was 105 on Tata LPTA was shown. Then an idea was given to marry cost effective ULH with Truck platform too. And thus thats how MArG was born. Its not about being emotional. I am just trying to say - Our Pvt corporations shall be reluctant to take up such Serious ideas coming from all future command officers - Nobody likes to burn own money on building products that shall never be bought.

Don't mind me saying this, but you would not make a good business man .
You don't invest on the whims and fancy of an institutional head, but do invest on the institutional need.

MGS is not the idea of Gen Rawat. It is the output of FARP which was formulated back in 2000. ATAGS, MGS, SPHG are all output of Artillery Rationalization Plan. If you remember, a truck mounted Dhanush along with a truck mounted Denel gun was also been presented.

OFB Dhanush

TATA MGS

Now you could see that MArG is not a dream of Gen Rawat, but an IA initiative. Gen Rawat just spoke with BF and gave the idea of mounting ULH on truck to be presented as a MGS solution. He has done so for IA to have multiple option.

 

[Chinmoy]

Well I hope then its a reality in next 2 years would be a great boost for are uav programs

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

View attachment 182050

Hopefully we see designs of upcoming male and hale uavs in aero india only 2 months left

 

[AnantS]

Don't mind me saying this, but you would not make a good business man .
You don't invest on the whims and fancy of an institutional head, but do invest on the institutional need.

MGS is not the idea of Gen Rawat. It is the output of FARP which was formulated back in 2000. ATAGS, MGS, SPHG are all output of Artillery Rationalization Plan. If you remember, a truck mounted Dhanush along with a truck mounted Denel gun was also been presented.

View attachment 182044

OFB Dhanush

View attachment 182045

TATA MGS

Now you could see that MArG is not a dream of Gen Rawat, but an IA initiative. Gen Rawat just spoke with BF and gave the idea of mounting ULH on truck to be presented as a MGS solution. He has done so for IA to have multiple option.

Gulp, If I was a businessman then I shall be vary of investing my money into a prototype whose cost is partly not born by govt or by some solid requirements from my prospective customers.

BF already had ATAGS, if what you state was the case - CDS would have simply asked them to work in parallel for integration of ATAGS to a High Mobility Truck.

And I am aware of other platforms that first came into light in 2012. Whereas MArG came into being in 2021. I mean by that time they had their own 155 as well as ATAGS to integrate with. Decision to integrate with ULH 155/39 made no sense for BF - if the scenario you mention was true.

Rajnath Singh unveils indigenous “Multi-terrain Artillery Gun” (MArG), developed By Bharat Forge

www.ajaishukla.com

Anyway I am glad MArG has got the order of 4-5 regiments from Armenia. That should cover the cost. My best wishes to BF that they continue to invest in R&D and seek success if not in India atleast outside.

IA seems to be inspired from British Armed Forces. British Navy also did not buy Harriers until US Marine bought. IA too woke up about existence of TONBO after US counterparts showed Tonbo wares in use. Indian Defence Industry if they have to survive - they will have to increase their prospective Market Base for their customers than just relying on Indian Armed forces for salvation.

 

[Chinmoy]

Gulp, If I was a businessman then I shall be vary of investing my money into a prototype whose cost is partly not born by govt or by some solid requirements from my prospective customers.

BF already had ATAGS, if what you state was the case - CDS would have simply asked them to work in parallel for integration of ATAGS to a High Mobility Truck.

And I am aware of other platforms that first came into light in 2012. Whereas MArG came into being in 2021. I mean by that time they had their own 155 as well as ATAGS to integrate with. Decision to integrate with ULH 155/39 made no sense for BF - if the scenario you mention was true.

Rajnath Singh unveils indigenous “Multi-terrain Artillery Gun” (MArG), developed By Bharat Forge

www.ajaishukla.com

Because in 2017, ATAGS was not even ready. The proof firing of ATAGS just happened a year earlier in 2016.

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[johnj]

At first, don't get too emotional. Army chief don't lay down requirement or specification. What he did is that he had given an idea for BF to work upon and BF did it. Now was it a wrong thing to do? Absolutely not. This is how things in designing should work. But expecting that since the idea has been given by chief, IA is bound to order it is wrong.

By air lift I hope you are not expecting to drop the gun in firing position by helis. Garuda and MaRG no doubt holds upper hand on MGS. But MGS beats the other two hands down on range. So while deciding on the need, transportability would be one factor but not the only factor. As far as I know, MGS would be ~30ton. So basically it would be carried in the same C-17 & C-130 which would be used to carry MaRG. Personally I don't see it giving huge advantage to MaRG.

C 130 J carries around 20ton cargo, & IAF also having il76 & mi26.

 

[AnantS]

Because in 2017, ATAGS was not even ready. The proof firing of ATAGS just happened a year earlier in 2016.

Late CDS requested Kalyani for such a gun in Dec 2018.

Saudi Arabia evaluating Kalyani Group artillery guns: Bharat 52 and 105 Garuda V2

www.ajaishukla.com

 

[Jambudweepa]

Site Suspended - This site has stepped out for a bit

www.thetatva.in

 

[Suryavanshi]

My opinion on govt vs private debate is , never use wide brush . Never have a ideological inclination . Because it creates a tendency of prejudiced opinion . Everything must be seen case by case basis .

Regarding screwdiver giri etc , even our govt psu does the same or have done same in past in many cases .

Private firms in india is at the early stage of takeoff . Had they got the legacy of 70 years being in this business , they wld have done much better .

And i think this debate might not be any relevant anymore . As govt private collaboration is the trend these days from space to defence , and this trend ll only increase , with govt sector focusing more and more on strategic long term projects .

Indian PSUs kind of fell off after 1970s.
Most were crested after 1970s and hence were ailed by drawbacks of that era.