DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Jambudweepa]

Anyone knows what chassis they are using (IMO it's not a Tatra 4x4)?

Ashok layland truck equiped with armoured protection .

Armenia buys the 155-mm / 39 self-propelled howitzers, Kalyani MArG 155 - BR, from India

On November 9, 2022, the Indian company Bharat Forge Limited (headquartered in Pune), representing the backbone of the

www.google.com

 

[Hari Sud]

I can list 20 scredrivergiri operations, you list 10 examples where Pvt sector invested billion+ of own money (pre 2014, afterwards they have been forced and incentivised to innovate) for cutting edge tech.




Its easy to blame DRDO/HAL for delays, but most of the blame lies with how democracy works (which is worth the advantages).

Now you raise an issue of 'how Democracy works'. You should be able to answer it yourself that the governments at the head of democracy is bad place to undertake complex projects.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Now you raise an issue of 'how Democracy works'. You should be able to answer it yourself that the governments at the head of democracy is bad place to undertake complex projects.

Nah, Im just saying DRDO/HAL speed is fine. Nothing extraordinary, but good enough. Im only debunking the idea that everything should be given to private sector due to some supposed midas touch that will overcome problems.

Feels like this:-


If private wants to be favoured, let them exceed capability of govt orgs. RFIs are free for all to reply to, if we babysit them we will be rendering the point of having private orgs moot, which is intense competition.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

‘Now you are stepping into unknowns like screw driver operation. You think that private sector is bunch of fools compared to slow moving DRDO or HAL. You are mistaken.

The amount of licensed produced or screwdrivered products that were showcased at the Defence Expo are proof of that.

 

[Jambudweepa]

My opinion on govt vs private debate is , never use wide brush . Never have a ideological inclination . Because it creates a tendency of prejudiced opinion . Everything must be seen case by case basis .

Regarding screwdiver giri etc , even our govt psu does the same or have done same in past in many cases .

Private firms in india is at the early stage of takeoff . Had they got the legacy of 70 years being in this business , they wld have done much better .

And i think this debate might not be any relevant anymore . As govt private collaboration is the trend these days from space to defence , and this trend ll only increase , with govt sector focusing more and more on strategic long term projects .

 

[johnj]

I can list 20 scredrivergiri operations, you list 10 examples where Pvt sector invested billion+ of own money (pre 2014, afterwards they have been forced and incentivised to innovate) for cutting edge tech.




Its easy to blame DRDO/HAL for delays, but most of the blame lies with how democracy works (which is worth the advantages).

Now you raise an issue of 'how Democracy works'. You should be able to answer it yourself that the governments at the head of democracy is bad place to undertake complex projects.

In the case of military & defence, the efficiency of private sector & gov sector depends on government.
In our case, most of the issue lies in GoI, not R&D or manufacturing sector, if gov give a little money to develop 4.5 gen fighter jet engine, no private sector consider working on it. Also corruption is an issue.
Since governments are the main buyers of weapons, private sector need real pre orders & large orders to justify setting up production unit, after that comes r&d, and innovations.
Most of the delay caused by GoI, from sanctions to fund allocations, plus lobbies.
IAF asking for 150~200 EU [reliable & sanction free & not a mig 21 replacement] jets since 2000, now 2022, & when GoI going to fill that hole ? same goes to Awacs, tankers, drones etc. From 1st page of lca mk2 -Tejas Mk2 First Flight -The Tejas Mk.2 is scheduled to make its first flight in 2014, with full-rate production to follow two years later & GE wanted India to agree to pay liabilities in case the IAF used the engine to power aircraft carrying nuclear weapons and one of these aircraft crashed in Pakistan. I seen GoI rushing to buy weapons during & after war then goes cold.

 

[jai jaganath]

China is inducting 100 fighter aircraft per year are you planning to fight the next war with 100 per year BVR production ?

You need fighters for that not aam
If they have capability of 100 fighter per year then there is no other option left other than acquiring fighters
What's the point of 1200 aam per year if you won't have fighters to fire aam

 

[Jambudweepa]

It has defence application , so sharing it here as well .

 

[DumbPilot]

It has defence application , so sharing it here as well .

Man, I love these people who design such amazing stuff. Hats off.

This has potential to become our very own Starlink for rural areas in conjunction with other satellites

 

[Jambudweepa]

Edith defence . Veronica mothership drone leading swarm drones and a surveilance roter named sentinel .



Autonomous Swarming Under Water Drones from Sagar Defence Engineering.


Mazagon Dock Limited developing midget submarine MS-X02A.

 

[Jambudweepa]

Systems under development by NewSpace Research and Technologies .

 

[jai jaganath]

Does anyone know what happened to alh and dornier deal with Phillipines

 

[Corvus Splendens]

 

[Chinmoy]

I agree . Yes kalyani ULH towed artillery is 12-18 tons . Whatever you say . please No more discussion on this .

No Kalyani ULH is 6.7 ton. There is no existence of 52 calibre ULH.

 

[Chinmoy]

Well sir I am not privy of status of ULH products which Kalyani claim. Thus went with the numbers they are dishing. The truck mounted high strength steel version of Artillery was specially asked by Late CDS Gen Bipin Rawat. Why Steel - of course to curtail cost. Now shall army be loyal to its ex CDS brainchild and order it after trials - is yet to be seen - or shall be again thrown into rabbit hole of shifting Goal posts with variable roadblocks.

First of all, let's keep the loyalty to ex-CDS out of technical discussion.
Now coming to platform, Kalyani has offered the MGS too in collaboration with BEML. So technically speaking, for mounted gun system they have 3 systems
1 Garuda 105
2 MArG-BR
3 8x8 MGS.

So put yourself in shoes of the user. Which system are you going to order? Would you look into their field performance or would you look towards your loyalty to Ex-Chief / CDS?

 

[Chinmoy]

Nah, Indian defence psus are famous for not updating their sites.
You argument citing BEML is not really a solid one, for example OFB does make HEAT 751 and HEDP for Carl Gustav but no mention of it on any of the site, similiarly they removed DPICM 155MM shell from their site but it was posted in one of their twitter pics in last year. 155mm DPICM does exist within IA made by OFB but it's really hard to find the pics.

Though I do agree that there is no reason for Kalyani to showcase a less than 5 ton ULH, i mean IA has already got some 145 M777, and if IA is interested they can ask for it to be tested thoroughly, just like TC20 came out when IA asked.

Tbh, I don't see ULH that much great and do we need extra guns in addition to M777? considering that our Chinook air mobility is very limited with just 15 helis to make much impact in a real war with china.

BEML is the best performing PSU. Their PR is far better then others. If you go thru their product lineup, they have already uploaded all that is there in their Arsenal.
But when it comes to the new 8x8, this is the first time it has been showcased. It's still in its nascent development stage & leave alone BEML, no one would make it commercially available in development stage.

 

[Chinmoy]

Whats MRO?

Maintenance Repair Operation

 

[AnantS]

First of all, let's keep the loyalty to ex-CDS out of technical discussion.
Now coming to platform, Kalyani has offered the MGS too in collaboration with BEML. So technically speaking, for mounted gun system they have 3 systems
1 Garuda 105
2 MArG-BR
3 8x8 MGS.

So put yourself in shoes of the user. Which system are you going to order? Would you look into their field performance or would you look towards your loyalty to Ex-Chief / CDS?

Sir, You mean to say requirements product made according to request laid by then serving Armed forces chief does not represent Army's requirement? The question is not only loyalty but on the weight of the words coming out of any Officer. Because this would mean no OEM should ever trust or entertain requests from any forces chief. Army could play such tantrums with PSU's but private sector would not have stomach nor wallet for such shenanigans.

I see roles for first two high altitudes. First two can be airlifted too, MGS again can be used in plains deserts and in well connected High Altitude Valleys. Personally I feel MGS still needs few more rounds of development and needs to be more compacted. ATAGS based MGS is not air transportable. Thats where MARG and Garuda shall hold key advantage apart from smaller footprint.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Sir, You mean to say requirements product made according to request laid by then serving Armed forces chief does not represent Army's requirement? The question is not only loyalty but on the weight of the words coming out of any Officer. Because this would mean no OEM should ever trust or entertain requests from any forces chief. Army could play such tantrums with PSU's but private sector would not have stomach nor wallet for such shenanigans.

I see roles for first two high altitudes. First two can be airlifted too, MGS again can be used in plains deserts and in well connected High Altitude Valleys. Personally I feel MGS still needs few more rounds of development and needs to be more compacted. ATAGS based MGS is not air transportable. Thats where MARG and Garuda shall hold key advantage apart from smaller footprint.

Because not imported, and once they are in service, the Brass won't be able to make a case for the need of big ticket imports.

IA learnt well from the English, who wanted a Czech made machinegun so much they foamed at their mouths to get it while ignoring all locally made alternatives.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]