DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[NoobWannaLearn]

 

[thebakofbakchod]

How reliable is he? According to BDL themselves, it is 100 per year

 

[jai jaganath]

How reliable is he? According to BDL themselves, it is 100 per year

He is journalist in Jane's
He is one of the most reliable sauce
He has broken many news in past

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

How reliable is he? According to BDL themselves, it is 100 per year

Bruh its 100 per year... not per month.

 

[WarmongerLSK]

Whats MRO?

 

[Hari Sud]

As for small drones, DRDO is not needed. And yes, even at colleges these things are being done, I have gotten a project sanctioned for an unarmed cannister launched drone myself.

DRDO should stick to large drones, like tapas, SWIFT, or maybe speciialised drones like for Anti Radiation drones.

There will be no twin engine derivative of LCA MK-2 - Where did you get that from? taking an aircraft from single engine to twin changes everything, you can do it without a fresh design.

As for missile development, no one in private sector has capability to anything even close to DRDO. Dont have this sort of mindset that private sector is some magician who will solve everything, if we tell private sector to make missile, only thing possible is a JV for screwdrivergiri of tomahawk or kalibr.

as for fighter development with only private partners in last 30 years, if we had done that, we would have exactly 0 planes or programs now, and would be stuck forever on imports. During the era of heavy sanctions, private companies would have been unable to suffer the cost of having to develop everything from scratch. Govt spends a lot more than any private company will be able to do, because they have a need to get profit.

My view - Allow private to compete with government. If they win, good. If they dont, "bahut bura hua vro".
Help them with tech where needed, but no need to strip public companies of projects. Leave easy stuff to private, take cutting edge for public, and for things in between, let them compete.

You have defended DRDO, HAL and others playing slow game in any development which takes years if not decades to develop is understood. I am now definitely sure that you are connected with them resulting in running for their defence.

Only thing you have not explained that why much of the work at DRDO and HAL is always in slow motion and never timely completion Or completion within specified limits of project management and completion. I will refrain from giving examples which are in plenty but think thru that …… had it been private sector then either the projects are completed or staff in slow motion dumped. The government departments are bound by self made rules which protects the staff more than the project sponsors interest, hence never completed anything on time.

 

[Vamsi]

Who has failed India’s defence modernization/upgrade.?

Put the blame squarely at DRDO‘s operation. They are lethargic in operation; create complicated procedures to slow down work and overly hierarchical organization where responsibility and accountability is divided over many heads that means nobody is responsible, but if anything succeeds then there are too many people to take the credit. This is typical of a government department where less work is the motto. I give you an example: one, not so scientifically advanced Iran has built multiple Drones or flying bombs. The West called them unsophisticated wood stuff built by private individuals, but these blew the hell out of the Ukrainian infrastructure and cost only $20,000. Second, a not so advanced Turkey with only advantage being a NATO member has built Bayarktar UAVs which has won the war in Armenia, Syria and very close to destroying Russian invasion in Ukraine. It cost $5 million which is one tenth of similar UAVs built by US or Israel. It is again a private individual enterprise with government support.

My point is that …… why can private enterprise in india build a lot of military hardware which DRDO etc. are lethargically working. They will take 5 times longer to build; a private enterprise will take half the time and cost a lot less.

Only in last 30 years, had India encouraged private enterprise, then a lot would have been achieved? For example, heavy artillery gun making handed over to private sector has done wonders. It has even secured export order. I hate Indian generals who are throwing road blocks in placing orders for the local artillery gun for the Indian Army. Other examples are as follows:

1. I wish the fighter engine development work of 30 years and all monies spent could have been done in the private sector. then by now, we would have got our own engine. If enough science was unavailable in India then they would have tied up abroad dozens of years back. DRDO is doing that now and asking for too many alternatives.

2. Our immediately needed failure to build a cruise missile of 1000 miles range has resulted in many failures. Recent test was also a failure. This development work should be handed over to the private enterprise with lock stock and barrel, so this urgently needed missile becomes operational sooner than later.

3. I hate to see the DRDO shoving its hand in the building of UAV, UCAVs and flying bombs. It is urgently needed. Instead DRDO holding meetings upon meetings and preparing a specification sheet; if it is in private sector hands, these will be ready sooner than later. The science is already available internally at IITs and other places.
whatever is not available could be easily purchased….. speed is the key.

4. There are years of wait for urgently needed LCA -Mk2 and it’s twin engine derivative for Navy aircraft carriers. It is a bureaucratic play between DRDO and HAL. Both are inefficient organizations which behave like government department where no work and double the pay is the motto. HAL as well as aircraft development organization in DRDO should be privatized and handed over to private enterprises which can handle it better with discipline and accountability.

I wish you guys express your own opinions on this subject.

1A. It's absolutely foolishness to believe that private companies can do everything & that too w.r.t Jet Engines, they are very complicated technologies....our private companies can't develop aero-engines on their own...GTRE did a really great job with their puny budget & limited infrastructure....if you want to blame someone for Kaveri delays, blame govts & babus...

1B. You said that our private companies should have collaborated with foreign aero-engine OEMs....let me tell you what would happened....it would have resulted in nothing but screwdrivergiri...it's as simple as that,no one will give you aero-engine tech & our private companies can never develop it on their own. I will also tell what is gonna happen in 110KN engine deal....it will also be screwdrivergiri... that's it..

 

[Vamsi]

Chandigarh lobby is extremely pissed,none of their moles after Suhag got promoted to the General/CDS level....we need baba in the centre but baba needs to act, chandigarh lobby will not hold ones a weak leadership comes in power...

Suhag is Chandigarh lobby mole ...never knew that...no wonder, Col Bakshi brings his name

 

[Jambudweepa]

Whats MRO?

Maintenance , repair , overhaul .

 

[Hari Sud]

1A. It's absolutely foolishness to believe that private companies can do everything & that too w.r.t Jet Engines, they are very complicated technologies....our private companies can't develop aero-engines on their own...GTRE did a really great job with their puny budget & limited infrastructure....if you want to blame someone for Kaveri delays, blame govts & babus...

1B. You said that our private companies should have collaborated with foreign aero-engine OEMs....let me tell you what would happened....it would have resulted in nothing but screwdrivergiri...it's as simple as that,no one will give you aero-engine tech & our private companies can never develop it on their own. I will also tell what is gonna happen in 110KN engine deal....it will also be screwdrivergiri... that's it..

‘I am glad that you raise the issue of delayed jet engine development. My view…. If it was a private sector; realizing the local limitations, they would have sought foreign collaboration ten years back what DRDO is seeking today from Americans, French and British. That is difference between private sector thinking and government slow moving department thinking.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

You have defended DRDO, HAL and others playing slow game in any development which takes years if not decades to develop is understood. I am now definitely sure that you are connected with them resulting in running for their defence.

Only thing you have not explained that why much of the work at DRDO and HAL is always in slow motion and never timely completion Or completion within specified limits of project management and completion. I will refrain from giving examples which are in plenty but think thru that …… had it been private sector then either the projects are completed or staff in slow motion dumped. The government departments are bound by self made rules which protects the staff more than the project sponsors interest, hence never completed anything on time.

Uhh.... Not connected with them, just know how useful they have been.

Its in slow motion because 1)The pay is low, so top teir engineers and scientists find employment elsewhere. 2) Speed of product development is not the driving motivation most of the time, neither is it incentivised.

Though, your point about private sector getting it wrong is not exactly right - Private sector companies either complete things, or give up. They dont spend 30 years slogging through problems and sanctions, and spending multiple billions just to make their own aircraft. The problems they can solve, they do, else ditch project and start something else.

In the end, private companies are driven by profit - They couldnt care less about developing Indian MIC, or researching critical tech that may not be financially viable. It is only because govt is forcing companies to have certain % Indian components that they are forced to look for innovations.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

‘I am glad that you raise the issue of delayed jet engine development. My view…. If it was a private sector; realizing the local limitations, they would have sought foreign collaboration ten years back what DRDO is seeking today from Americans, French and British. That is difference between private sector thinking and government slow moving department thinking.

The difference would have been, the collab of private companies would have been screwdrivergiri. No private company has the ability to get ToT easily, GOI has a lot more heft and money that they can throw around for IP rights to the design.

Yes, government is slow - It has to be, that is the fundamental drawback of democracy. But it has a lot of advantages, and IMO, even if in future the PSU's become loss making, they should be retained, if just to provide a competiotion for future to private companies to prevent ovecharging.

 

[Hari Sud]

The difference would have been, the collab of private companies would have been screwdrivergiri. No private company has the ability to get ToT easily, GOI has a lot more heft and money that they can throw around for IP rights to the design.

Yes, government is slow - It has to be, that is the fundamental drawback of democracy. But it has a lot of advantages, and IMO, even if in future the PSU's become loss making, they should be retained, if just to provide a competiotion for future to private companies to prevent ovecharging.

‘Now you are stepping into unknowns like screw driver operation. You think that private sector is bunch of fools compared to slow moving DRDO or HAL. You are mistaken.

 

[Vamsi]

‘I am glad that you raise the issue of delayed jet engine development. My view…. If it was a private sector; realizing the local limitations, they would have sought foreign collaboration ten years back what DRDO is seeking today from Americans, French and British. That is difference between private sector thinking and government slow moving department thinking.

Indian private companies and foreign OEM collaboration will only result in screwdrivergiri....

 

[Vamsi]

Saurav Jha-Anyway, within the next few months the LCA-Navy will make a landing on the INS Vikrant. Thereby marking an event wherein an indigenous fighter will land on an indigenous aircraft carrier for the first time in Indian history.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

‘Now you are stepping into unknowns like screw driver operation. You think that private sector is bunch of fools compared to slow moving DRDO or HAL. You are mistaken.

I can list 20 scredrivergiri operations, you list 10 examples where Pvt sector invested billion+ of own money (pre 2014, afterwards they have been forced and incentivised to innovate) for cutting edge tech.




Its easy to blame DRDO/HAL for delays, but most of the blame lies with how democracy works (which is worth the advantages).

 

[The Shrike]

As per Ajaya shukla kalyani exporting 155×39 truck mounted artillery to Armenia . Around 4/5 regiments . Its marg br / TC 20 , if his information is right .

View attachment 181278

Anyone knows what chassis they are using (IMO it's not a Tatra 4x4)?

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Bruh its 100 per year... not per month.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

He is wrong. Raytheon produced 400-500 per year, and we, with less than 1/5 of the aircraft that can shoot this, are making 1200?

At most, we have built capacity for it, but BDL wont be using it all.

 

[Blackmamba]

He is wrong. Raytheon produced 400-500 per year, and we, with less than 1/5 of the aircraft that can shoot this, are making 1200?

At most, we have built capacity for it, but BDL wont be using it all.

China is inducting 100 fighter aircraft per year are you planning to fight the next war with 100 per year BVR production ?