DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

abingdonboy

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That quote from KSSL official site. I believe the page from you posted figure is referring clearing to mainly steel/some Ti version(heavy). Why light version is not mentioned is beyond me. But what I have seen is all Indian private companies which are working defense space(Godrej, Titagarh , KSSL, Tata etc.) have very vague information. Dunno is its by design or general lackadaisical attitude towards PR.
Yeah I’ve noticed that even private defence players in india are VERY vague and opaque when it comes to defence products so maybe we were being a bit harsh all this time when it came to DRDO’s PR, perhaps the MoD’s babudom is the real stumbling block.

to this day you’ll struggle to find HQ pics of most IDDM equipment on their OEM’s websites or even any half decent spec sheet. Forget about YouTube channels showing live demos of the equipment
 

Blood+

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Add on kit seems pretty challenging unless they manage to fit it all in the fuse, which is pretty tiny tbh.

After a bit of research, apparently you can fit the thing into the fuse, just that accuracy is max 30m instead of the 3m you get with proper guided shells.

That was the minimum requirement. In practice, they performed a lot better. Here, take a look -
 

Suryavanshi

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Has even 20% of the stuff
Might want to correct that number, more like 50 to 60%.
More than that the issue is timeline of purchase.
Procurement is literally the highest it has ever been and that too induction is the fastest it has ever been.
@ezsasa has 2021 Procurement record tracked more or less in one of his old post.

If members had made a list back in 2010 yo 2014 and compared the same to current one the list will come out 2 to 3 times longer ever after taking budget into account.
 

DumbPilot

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100 Mk1 per month already? That's a crazy good amount. Assuming they're producing the one with the home-grown seekerhead(test in 2019) then they're already produced like 3600 units lol

I am guessing it may be a bit less(pure conjecture) but maybe we do have Astra in excess of 600-700. That's pretty good.
 

JBH22

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Is there enough orders to justify production of 100PM?
IAF will no longer be able to rely on Russia/Ukraine supply of R-27 or R-77 missiles.
Post Balakot strike, as usual IAF brass realised importance of BVR missiles,hence impetus on Astra.
Otherwise,they just sat doing nothing when Pakistan got AIM-120C5 missile.
 

flanker99

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IAF will no longer be able to rely on Russia/Ukraine supply of R-27 or R-77 missiles.
Post Balakot strike, as usual IAF brass realised importance of BVR missiles,hence impetus on Astra.
Otherwise,they just sat doing nothing when Pakistan got AIM-120C5 missile.
I agree just that i haven't seen this number anywhere else and its kinda hard to swallow ...this may be there eventual production goal but i really doubt we are producing this many per month rn
 

SwordOfDarkness

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I agree just that i haven't seen this number anywhere else and its kinda hard to swallow ...this may be there eventual production goal but i really doubt we are producing this many per month rn
More like, they built up capability of 10 per month, and operating at some 30-40 per month. Nothing wrong with having excess capability incase you need to scale up production for war.
 

SUPERPOWER

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IAF will no longer be able to rely on Russia/Ukraine supply of R-27 or R-77 missiles.
Post Balakot strike, as usual IAF brass realised importance of BVR missiles,hence impetus on Astra.
Otherwise,they just sat doing nothing when Pakistan got AIM-120C5 missile.
Still Indian Airforce lacks AWACS..!!!
 

Arjun Mk1A

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List is too big really.

Trust in BABA.
1668356404937.png



Baba already put more things in negative list every year. With more delay the number of items under negative list will increase which shuts the Lobby once for all.

Indian Armed Forces is basically one step away from inflection point. Once it crosses it is basically purchasing of indigenous systems in a bulk manner.

This is a 786D chess by Baba.
 

Hari Sud

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Who has failed India’s defence modernization/upgrade.?

Put the blame squarely at DRDO‘s operation. They are lethargic in operation; create complicated procedures to slow down work and overly hierarchical organization where responsibility and accountability is divided over many heads that means nobody is responsible, but if anything succeeds then there are too many people to take the credit. This is typical of a government department where less work is the motto. I give you an example: one, not so scientifically advanced Iran has built multiple Drones or flying bombs. The West called them unsophisticated wood stuff built by private individuals, but these blew the hell out of the Ukrainian infrastructure and cost only $20,000. Second, a not so advanced Turkey with only advantage being a NATO member has built Bayarktar UAVs which has won the war in Armenia, Syria and very close to destroying Russian invasion in Ukraine. It cost $5 million which is one tenth of similar UAVs built by US or Israel. It is again a private individual enterprise with government support.

My point is that …… why can private enterprise in india build a lot of military hardware which DRDO etc. are lethargically working. They will take 5 times longer to build; a private enterprise will take half the time and cost a lot less.

Only in last 30 years, had India encouraged private enterprise, then a lot would have been achieved? For example, heavy artillery gun making handed over to private sector has done wonders. It has even secured export order. I hate Indian generals who are throwing road blocks in placing orders for the local artillery gun for the Indian Army. Other examples are as follows:

1. I wish the fighter engine development work of 30 years and all monies spent could have been done in the private sector. then by now, we would have got our own engine. If enough science was unavailable in India then they would have tied up abroad dozens of years back. DRDO is doing that now and asking for too many alternatives.

2. Our immediately needed failure to build a cruise missile of 1000 miles range has resulted in many failures. Recent test was also a failure. This development work should be handed over to the private enterprise with lock stock and barrel, so this urgently needed missile becomes operational sooner than later.

3. I hate to see the DRDO shoving its hand in the building of UAV, UCAVs and flying bombs. It is urgently needed. Instead DRDO holding meetings upon meetings and preparing a specification sheet; if it is in private sector hands, these will be ready sooner than later. The science is already available internally at IITs and other places.
whatever is not available could be easily purchased….. speed is the key.

4. There are years of wait for urgently needed LCA -Mk2 and it’s twin engine derivative for Navy aircraft carriers. It is a bureaucratic play between DRDO and HAL. Both are inefficient organizations which behave like government department where no work and double the pay is the motto. HAL as well as aircraft development organization in DRDO should be privatized and handed over to private enterprises which can handle it better with discipline and accountability.

I wish you guys express your own opinions on this subject.
 

Hari Sud

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Trust in BABA.
View attachment 181786


Baba already put more things in negative list every year. With more delay the number of items under negative list will increase which shuts the Lobby once for all.

Indian Armed Forces is basically one step away from inflection point. Once it crosses it is basically purchasing of indigenous systems in a bulk manner.

This is a 786D chess by Baba.
‘Nothing but pure nonsense of Chandigarh and London lobby.
 

Steven Rogers

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‘Nothing but pure nonsense of Chandigarh and London lobby.
Chandigarh lobby is extremely pissed,none of their moles after Suhag got promoted to the General/CDS level....we need baba in the centre but baba needs to act, chandigarh lobby will not hold ones a weak leadership comes in power...
 

SwordOfDarkness

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Who has failed India’s defence modernization/upgrade.?

Put the blame squarely at DRDO‘s operation. They are lethargic in operation; create complicated procedures to slow down work and overly hierarchical organization where responsibility and accountability is divided over many heads that means nobody is responsible, but if anything succeeds then there are too many people to take the credit. This is typical of a government department where less work is the motto. I give you an example: one, not so scientifically advanced Iran has built multiple Drones or flying bombs. The West called them unsophisticated wood stuff built by private individuals, but these blew the hell out of the Ukrainian infrastructure and cost only $20,000. Second, a not so advanced Turkey with only advantage being a NATO member has built Bayarktar UAVs which has won the war in Armenia, Syria and very close to destroying Russian invasion in Ukraine. It cost $5 million which is one tenth of similar UAVs built by US or Israel. It is again a private individual enterprise with government support.

My point is that …… why can private enterprise in india build a lot of military hardware which DRDO etc. are lethargically working. They will take 5 times longer to build; a private enterprise will take half the time and cost a lot less.

Only in last 30 years, had India encouraged private enterprise, then a lot would have been achieved? For example, heavy artillery gun making handed over to private sector has done wonders. It has even secured export order. I hate Indian generals who are throwing road blocks in placing orders for the local artillery gun for the Indian Army. Other examples are as follows:

1. I wish the fighter engine development work of 30 years and all monies spent could have been done in the private sector. then by now, we would have got our own engine. If enough science was unavailable in India then they would have tied up abroad dozens of years back. DRDO is doing that now and asking for too many alternatives.

2. Our immediately needed failure to build a cruise missile of 1000 miles range has resulted in many failures. Recent test was also a failure. This development work should be handed over to the private enterprise with lock stock and barrel, so this urgently needed missile becomes operational sooner than later.

3. I hate to see the DRDO shoving its hand in the building of UAV, UCAVs and flying bombs. It is urgently needed. Instead DRDO holding meetings upon meetings and preparing a specification sheet; if it is in private sector hands, these will be ready sooner than later. The science is already available internally at IITs and other places.
whatever is not available could be easily purchased….. speed is the key.

4. There are years of wait for urgently needed LCA -Mk2 and it’s twin engine derivative for Navy aircraft carriers. It is a bureaucratic play between DRDO and HAL. Both are inefficient organizations which behave like government department where no work and double the pay is the motto. HAL as well as aircraft development organization in DRDO should be privatized and handed over to private enterprises which can handle it better with discipline and accountability.

I wish you guys express your own opinions on this subject.
As for small drones, DRDO is not needed. And yes, even at colleges these things are being done, I have gotten a project sanctioned for an unarmed cannister launched drone myself.

DRDO should stick to large drones, like tapas, SWIFT, or maybe speciialised drones like for Anti Radiation drones.

There will be no twin engine derivative of LCA MK-2 - Where did you get that from? taking an aircraft from single engine to twin changes everything, you can do it without a fresh design.

As for missile development, no one in private sector has capability to anything even close to DRDO. Dont have this sort of mindset that private sector is some magician who will solve everything, if we tell private sector to make missile, only thing possible is a JV for screwdrivergiri of tomahawk or kalibr.

as for fighter development with only private partners in last 30 years, if we had done that, we would have exactly 0 planes or programs now, and would be stuck forever on imports. During the era of heavy sanctions, private companies would have been unable to suffer the cost of having to develop everything from scratch. Govt spends a lot more than any private company will be able to do, because they have a need to get profit.

My view - Allow private to compete with government. If they win, good. If they dont, "bahut bura hua vro".
Help them with tech where needed, but no need to strip public companies of projects. Leave easy stuff to private, take cutting edge for public, and for things in between, let them compete.
 

Srinie

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Who has failed India’s defence modernization/upgrade.?

Put the blame squarely at DRDO‘s operation. They are lethargic in operation; create complicated procedures to slow down work and overly hierarchical organization where responsibility and accountability is divided over many heads that means nobody is responsible, but if anything succeeds then there are too many people to take the credit. This is typical of a government department where less work is the motto. I give you an example: one, not so scientifically advanced Iran has built multiple Drones or flying bombs. The West called them unsophisticated wood stuff built by private individuals, but these blew the hell out of the Ukrainian infrastructure and cost only $20,000. Second, a not so advanced Turkey with only advantage being a NATO member has built Bayarktar UAVs which has won the war in Armenia, Syria and very close to destroying Russian invasion in Ukraine. It cost $5 million which is one tenth of similar UAVs built by US or Israel. It is again a private individual enterprise with government support.

My point is that …… why can private enterprise in india build a lot of military hardware which DRDO etc. are lethargically working. They will take 5 times longer to build; a private enterprise will take half the time and cost a lot less.

Only in last 30 years, had India encouraged private enterprise, then a lot would have been achieved? For example, heavy artillery gun making handed over to private sector has done wonders. It has even secured export order. I hate Indian generals who are throwing road blocks in placing orders for the local artillery gun for the Indian Army. Other examples are as follows:

1. I wish the fighter engine development work of 30 years and all monies spent could have been done in the private sector. then by now, we would have got our own engine. If enough science was unavailable in India then they would have tied up abroad dozens of years back. DRDO is doing that now and asking for too many alternatives.

2. Our immediately needed failure to build a cruise missile of 1000 miles range has resulted in many failures. Recent test was also a failure. This development work should be handed over to the private enterprise with lock stock and barrel, so this urgently needed missile becomes operational sooner than later.

3. I hate to see the DRDO shoving its hand in the building of UAV, UCAVs and flying bombs. It is urgently needed. Instead DRDO holding meetings upon meetings and preparing a specification sheet; if it is in private sector hands, these will be ready sooner than later. The science is already available internally at IITs and other places.
whatever is not available could be easily purchased….. speed is the key.

4. There are years of wait for urgently needed LCA -Mk2 and it’s twin engine derivative for Navy aircraft carriers. It is a bureaucratic play between DRDO and HAL. Both are inefficient organizations which behave like government department where no work and double the pay is the motto. HAL as well as aircraft development organization in DRDO should be privatized and handed over to private enterprises which can handle it better with discipline and accountability.

I wish you guys express your own opinions on this subject.
How can one design for a weapon whose RFP is like multi vaccine single dose. It's like saying development a covid vaccine but it also should work for hepatitis cholera and malaria. We want state of the art at kabadi ka rate . Milta babaji ka thullu
 

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