DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars

Armenia Eyes Akash Missile As Conflict With Azerbaijan Continues: Report

The war-ridden nation already procured Pinaka rocket launcher and Konkurs missile from India last month

www.outlookindia.com

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

All forgings and castings used in the engines including those of the hot section are made ground up by HAL.

View attachment 178316

View attachment 178317

The HP turbine blades are made using investment casting with ceramic moulds.

View attachment 178318


Don't think GR will allow us to make the HPC and HPT rotors and blades here in country. But then let's see.

Means we already have a 120KN engine... why can't we apply some brain & invest a few thousand crores(or even 10k crores) & make it better instead of pleading the west for something they will never share.

 

[johnj]

Means we already have a 120KN engine... why can't we apply some brain & invest a few thousand crores & make it better instead of pleading the west.

TWR: weight & size, Not a 5th gen & improved version : AL-41F-1S, its Russian engine.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Means we already have a 120KN engine... why can't we apply some brain & invest a few thousand crores(or even 10k crores) & make it better instead of pleading the west for something they will never share.

Not necessarily, their survival aspects in various conditions over time may still be not upto mark or even understood from all practical aspects. If we did, we would not be looking desperately for tot or partnerships? It is good to see this level of progress as these are some of the most challenging aspects of ac engines

 

[mehrotraprince]

Nope you are wrong .

HAL has been making AL-31FP from raw material stage since 2016.

https://www.thehindubusinessline.co...-50th-al31fp-engine-to-iaf/article9920705.ece

The 50th such engine was handed over in Oct,2017. And now we are in 2022.




Unlike what some posters would like to say about the crappy quality fo Russian platforms and stuff and Russia always short changing us when it comes to tech transfer, well that's not always the case. Yes, they charge us an arm and a leg for some of the stuff and there's always some delays in the deliveries barring the recent purchases, but they are dependable where it actually matters.

You know the meaning of "making AL-31FP from raw material stage since 2016"?
Does it mention that the raw materials are produced in India?
For your kind information my source are the guys who are working at senior level in HAL, they know better than you.

 

[Arihant Roy]

You know the meaning of "making AL-31FP from raw material stage since 2016"?
Does it mention that the raw materials are produced in India?
For your kind information my source are the guys who are working at senior level in HAL, they know better than you.

You know what is raw material?

They are titanium l ingots, various alloys including nickel ones which are shipped from Russia.

Well, to vanquish your arrogance, my sources are friends who have done their internship at HAL Koraput .

So pls.

 

[dfcool]

Genuine question

Have you even visited HAL website? why HAL still using 1990s website servers with ugly UI that can be hacked by 10 yr old.

Why Dont they make Official promo videos like other defence companies like Lockheed, SAAB etc.

look at korea stunning website: https://www.koreaaero.com/EN/Business/KF21.aspx

even turks have stunning promo website: https://www.baykartech.com/en/uav/bayraktar-tb2/
they even have youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/BaykarTechnologies/videos

It is down.

 

[mehrotraprince]

You know what is raw material?

They are titanium l ingots, various alloys including nickel ones which are shipped from Russia.

Well, to vanquish your arrogance, my sources are friends who have done their internship at HAL Koraput .

So pls.

My problem with you is how boastfully you are spread false information without any proof or knowledge. At least read about research papers published, watch seminars and talk to engineers and scientists working at HAL and DRDO to understand about our (India) true engineering and manufacturing capabilities as a country. Show me any proof/news where it is mentioned that HAL manufactures hot section of engines like AL31 or RD-33 (used on Mig-29). At least read about the contract conditions (limitations on sourcing of raw materials) which Russians have imposed on us, specially with respect to manufacturing of Su-30MKI.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Genuine question

Have you even visited HAL website? why HAL still using 1990s website servers with ugly UI that can be hacked by 10 yr old.

Why Dont they make Official promo videos like other defence companies like Lockheed, SAAB etc.

look at korea stunning website: https://www.koreaaero.com/EN/Business/KF21.aspx

even turks have stunning promo website: https://www.baykartech.com/en/uav/bayraktar-tb2/
they even have youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/BaykarTechnologies/videos

It is down.

View attachment 178387

Websites get the least amount of focus by any gov branch in our country not one decent website server crash randomly

 

[Arihant Roy]

My problem with you is how boastfully you are spread false information without any proof or knowledge. At least read about research papers published, watch seminars and talk to engineers and scientists working at HAL and DRDO to understand about our (India) true engineering and manufacturing capabilities as a country. Show me any proof/news where it is mentioned that HAL manufactures hot section of engines like AL31 or RD-33 (used on Mig-29). At least read about the contract conditions (limitations on sourcing of raw materials) which Russians have imposed on us, specially with respect to manufacturing of Su-30MKI.

I guess you aren't from an engineering background.
Do you think talking to engineers and technicians of HAL , OFB and other DPSU is the exclusive preserve of yourself ?

This is a HAL manufactured HPT rotor disc which is a hot end component. I don't know whether you are bluffing or your friends are really what they claim to be .

Coz we are making them since some time. What comes from NPO Saturn are the exotic alloys and ceramics which are used to make them and the TBC coatings.

 

[Arihant Roy]

My problem with you is how boastfully you are spread false information without any proof or knowledge. At least read about research papers published, watch seminars and talk to engineers and scientists working at HAL and DRDO to understand about our (India) true engineering and manufacturing capabilities as a country. Show me any proof/news where it is mentioned that HAL manufactures hot section of engines like AL31 or RD-33 (used on Mig-29). At least read about the contract conditions (limitations on sourcing of raw materials) which Russians have imposed on us, specially with respect to manufacturing of Su-30MKI.

The entire incountry production of both the Su-30MKI and its AL-31FP engines were divided into four phases. Phase 1 envisages license assembly from SCKD . Phase IV envisages production from raw material stage which are supplied by Russia.

https://forceindia.net/hal-hands-50th-raw-material-phase-engine-su-30mki-iaf/

Go through this.

Production from raw material stage had started in 2011 by the way.

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

The entire incountry production of both the Su-30MKI and its AL-31FP engines were divided into four phases. Phase 1 envisages license assembly from SCKD . Phase IV envisages production from raw material stage which are supplied by Russia.

https://forceindia.net/hal-hands-50th-raw-material-phase-engine-su-30mki-iaf/

Go through this.

Production from raw material stage had started in 2011 by the way.

Do you work at hal you have inside knowledge it seems

 

[Arihant Roy]

My problem with you is how boastfully you are spread false information without any proof or knowledge. At least read about research papers published, watch seminars and talk to engineers and scientists working at HAL and DRDO to understand about our (India) true engineering and manufacturing capabilities as a country. Show me any proof/news where it is mentioned that HAL manufactures hot section of engines like AL31 or RD-33 (used on Mig-29). At least read about the contract conditions (limitations on sourcing of raw materials) which Russians have imposed on us, specially with respect to manufacturing of Su-30MKI.

https://www.oneindia.com/feature/hal-propels-fortunes-koraput-engine-division-with-gen-next-projects-1590744.html

Go through this pls.


And I am happy to add that working within the constraints of contractual obligations of sourcing certain stuff from UMPO , we are also using import substitution for certain alloys with MIDHANI ones.

Besides, certain components and aggregates of the test rigs which are used to test a newly build AL-31FP after production before delivery to Nashik are also being made here.

 

[Photon]

 

[Shuturmurg]

Genuine question

Have you even visited HAL website? why HAL still using 1990s website servers with ugly UI that can be hacked by 10 yr old.

Why Dont they make Official promo videos like other defence companies like Lockheed, SAAB etc.

look at korea stunning website: https://www.koreaaero.com/EN/Business/KF21.aspx

even turks have stunning promo website: https://www.baykartech.com/en/uav/bayraktar-tb2/
they even have youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/BaykarTechnologies/videos

It is down.

View attachment 178387

Sarkaari vs private. Our PSU's really suck at marketing.

 

[binayak95]

I guess you aren't from an engineering background.
Do you think talking to engineers and technicians of HAL , OFB and other DPSU is the exclusive preserve of yourself ?

View attachment 178392

This is a HAL manufactured HPT rotor disc which is a hot end component. I don't know whether you are bluffing or your friends are really what they claim to be .

Coz we are making them since some time. What comes from NPO Saturn are the exotic alloys and ceramics which are used to make them and the TBC coatings.

I have a cousin who used to work at HAL Koraput. Left it for NALCO many years ago. He said that we had improved upon the mono crystalline casting process for titanium blades that improved the rejection rate of titanium from 70% to 35-40%

 

[mehrotraprince]

I guess you aren't from an engineering background.
Do you think talking to engineers and technicians of HAL , OFB and other DPSU is the exclusive preserve of yourself ?

This is about our capability gaps wrt materials (year 2022)

Now tell me, should I believe scientists at GTRE or reporters who can not even visually differentiate between su-30 and mig-29?

So according to you we are manufacturing AL-31 engine from scratch from 2011 onwards...?

This is the only reason why I said what you have no knowledge about our manufacturing capabilities.

 

[Sachinananda]

I heard that hvt sir said there is no delay in mk-2 project
Is he saying right

 

[Arihant Roy]

This is about our capability gaps wrt materials (year 2022)View attachment 178413
Now tell me, should I believe scientists at GTRE or reporters who can not even visually differentiate between su-30 and mig-29?

So according to you we are manufacturing AL-31 engine from scratch from 2011 onwards...?

This is the only reason why I said what you have no knowledge about our manufacturing capabilities.

The slide you have posted shows our capabilities and limits when it comes to materials. These are the various exotic alloys that are yet to be indigenized. What does 'indigenisation' mean?

Indigenisation means made in India. What does it entail here.? Here it means from having ingots , powders of the various elements like Nickel, chromium , lanthanum, iron, titanium ,aluminium, etc you synthesise the alloys here in Indian plants and then supply them to the plants that require them, ie in this context HAL Koraput.

Now where do these elements come from ? These are present as compounds in their respective ores. You have to mine them and then extract the elements themselves from the oxides and compounds in the form of which they exist in nature. This is a different branch and is ultra vast.
It is metallurgy which is different from manufacturing of assemblies of engines.


Now coming to the matter in hand, besides the alloys indigenized by Midhani , the rest which comprises the vast majority are supplied to us by Russian OEM. These are the materials that are highlighted in your slide as yet to be indigenized.
besides, the alloys which are mentioned in the slide are half to almost a gen ahead of the materials used in AL-31 FP.


YOU are MIXING up MAKING HOT END COMPONENTS of AL-31FP and other jet engines with MANUFACTURING and SYNTHESISING the required ALLOYS from their RESPECTIVE ELEMENTS. Koraput GETS THEM from RUSSIA.

these high pressure turbine blades are made at Sukhoi division through investment casting. The surface finish achieved is as smooth as glass. So no further machining is required. These blades are the actual castings .
notice the series of fine holes on the leading edge of the turbine blade. Those are cooling channels through which relatively cooler air which has been diverted from the high pressure compressor section is passed through the blades to prevent them from losing their tensile strength and melting in the high thermal load environment.



Do read up about jet engines and the various processes that go into making each of the parts.Coz you simply don't have the basic understanding required to comprehend these stuff . You are mixing one thing with another.
Just watching some seminars from GTRE engineers on youtube won't cut it.

 

[Arihant Roy]

Here's the dry variant of Kaveri meant for application on future UCAV.