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Srinie

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'HAL BETTER PLACED TO JOIN HANDS WITH ANY FOREIGN AEROSPACE MAJOR FOR MRFA PROJECT': CEO MADHAVAN
The government is moving forward to procure 114 jets for the IAF at a whopping cost of USD 20 billion, billed as one of the world's biggest military acquisition programs in recent years


NEW DELHI: Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is better placed to partner with any foreign military plane maker to produce combat jets in India under the ambitious Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) program, Chairman and Managing Director of the state-run aerospace behemoth, R Madhavan, said on Sunday.

The government is moving forward to procure 114 jets for the Indian Air Force (IAF) at a whopping cost of USD 20 billion, billed as one of the world's biggest military acquisition programs in recent years.

It was initially indicated that the aircraft will be procured under the strategic partnership (SP) model that mandates a foreign manufacturer to join hands with an Indian company to manufacture major military platforms.

The top HAL executive also said the government should decide on the aircraft for the IAF under the MRFA project and it should be left to the manufacturer of the plane to decide on its Indian partner.

"With our infrastructure and experience, HAL is much better placed to join hands with a foreign entity to produce the aircraft. Definitely, we are looking at being the Indian entity for the project," Madhavan told PTI in an interview.

Asked whether the mega project should be implemented under the strategic partnership model, the HAL chief only said it should be left to the businesses to find their own solution.

"Once a decision is taken on the aircraft, let the manufacturer decide on its Indian partner and let them quote (the price) together. It is a possibility," Madhavan said.

"If the original equipment maker finds HAL to be comfortable to join hands with, let it come. If it finds somebody else, let them go there," he added.

In April 2019, the IAF issued an RFI (Request for Information), or an initial tender, to acquire 114 jets.

The top contenders for the deal include Lockheed Martin's F-21, Boeing's F/A-18, Dassault Aviation's Rafale, the Eurofighter Typhoon, Russian aircraft MiG 35 and Saab's Gripen.

Last week, Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari told PTI that the winner of the mega project will have to ensure the transfer of technology as it would be implemented under the framework of the "Make in India" initiative.

Madhavan also cited the groundwork between HAL and Dassault Aviation around a decade ago for the production of Rafale jets in India as part of negotiations for the procurement of a fleet of 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA).

In the original proposal, 18 planes were to be manufactured in France and 108 in India in collaboration with HAL.

The final negotiations for the MMRCA continued till early 2014 but the deal could not go through.

In 2016, the NDA government signed a Euro 7.87-billion (Rs 59,000-crore) deal with France to procure 36 Rafale jets.

"We did a lot of leg work then. But it is not that we should look at only Dassault Aviation for the MRFA project. If they select Boeing or Lockheed or any other manufacturer, we are ready to join hands with any aerospace major," Madhavan said.

HAL is the producer of the TEJAS aircraft, which is a highly agile multi-role supersonic fighter jet capable of operating in high-threat air environments.

In February last year, the defence ministry sealed a Rs 48,000-crore deal with HAL for the procurement of 83 TEJAS fighter aircraft for the IAF.

The much-talked-about strategic partnership model allows domestic defence manufacturers to join hands with leading foreign defence majors to produce high-end military platforms.

The policy is aimed at reducing import dependence.

Initially, the strategic partners will be selected in four segments -- fighter aircraft, helicopters, submarines and armoured fighting vehicles or main battle tanks.

If HAL gets the contract good if it doesn't unleash the trade union guys and enjoy the fun classic Marxist strategy. Fact is HaL does not have the ability to produce Tejas AmCA and MRFA together .
 

flanker99

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If HAL gets the contract good if it doesn't unleash the trade union guys and enjoy the fun classic Marxist strategy. Fact is HaL does not have the ability to produce Tejas AmCA and MRFA together .
Not rn now but if need be they can scale up...another fact is no matter which entity produces mrfa HAL will have a part to play in it ...and amca SPV will def have HAL as its stakeholders...
 

Chinmoy

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Are you sure this one piece ammo missile would be compatible to a 125mm cannon system. 2 piece ammo solution of 125mm puts a cap on the length of projectile and is one of the main reason for unable to increase ke rod length.
Or maybe they are developing it for 125mm gun for drdo FMBT, although I am till not sure if it would be single or double piece ammo complaint, design of turret suggests a one piece config.
What do you exactly mean by one piece missile here?
 

Kuldeepm952

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What do you exactly mean by one piece missile here?
This is Invar, missile+pusher similiar to KE round+ propellant, autoloader design restricts length of missile
1656948570624.png

This is single piece SAMHO design similiar to lahat, single piece and looks much lengthier than above missile piece
1656948764475.png


If SAMHO length doesn't fits Invar dimensions than good luck adopting it for 125mm cannon.
There is a reason why autoloader of t90 has a problem with adopting longer KE rounds.
 

radion

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1) K-9 hull with Cockerill modular turret -105 mm rifled gun, 34T 2) K-9 hull but with 125 mm 2A46M gun from T-90S, MTU engine , 38T
what work is drdo even doing lmao either mating a Korean chassis with a American or Russian turret lol
 

Kuldeepm952

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1) K-9 hull with Cockerill modular turret -105 mm rifled gun, 34T 2) K-9 hull but with 125 mm 2A46M gun from T-90S, MTU engine , 38T
what work is drdo even doing lmao either mating a Korean chassis with a American or Russian turret lol
Most likely DRDO light tank will have a Desi turret and gun. Initially I was more inclined that Hull would be a new one too but now l&t has been chosen as partner confirmed by drdo chief, possibility of K9 hull can't be discarded. But there may be a new hull too.

Arjun rifled 120mm cannon with soft recoil and am autoloader can be a solution, would save us on developing new 105mm ammo trypes.

Here, we laugh on type 15 with having a weight of 35 tons and having only105mm cannon.

If our light tank turns out to be 105mm cannon with K9 hull, that would be a disaster. How the hell would that be a light tank, but just a fire support vehicle, a light tank should have some good amount of protection. I am pretty sure K9 hull was not even designed to handle 20mm cannons leave alone 30mm ones.

Does anyone really think that a K9 hull based light tank would be better than type 15? Atleast type 15 hull could take a beating against medium calibre guns, RPGs and certain atgms. A K9 is just paper armour in comparision.

Also, wasn't the requirement for a 25 ton unicorn light tank with some 600mm+ rha armour and every gizmo they can find.
 

SwordOfDarkness

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Most likely DRDO light tank will have a Desi turret and gun. Initially I was more inclined that Hull would be a new one too but now l&t has been chosen as partner confirmed by drdo chief, possibility of K9 hull can't be discarded. But there may be a new hull too.

Arjun rifled 120mm cannon with soft recoil and am autoloader can be a solution, would save us on developing new 105mm ammo trypes.

Here, we laugh on type 15 with having a weight of 35 tons and having only105mm cannon.

If our light tank turns out to be 105mm cannon with K9 hull, that would be a disaster. How the hell would that be a light tank, but just a fire support vehicle, a light tank should have some good amount of protection. I am pretty sure K9 hull was not even designed to handle 20mm cannons leave alone 30mm ones.

Does anyone really think that a K9 hull based light tank would be better than type 15? Atleast type 15 hull could take a beating against medium calibre guns, RPGs and certain atgms. A K9 is just paper armour in comparision.

Also, wasn't the requirement for a 25 ton unicorn light tank with some 600mm+ rha armour and every gizmo they can find.
could be "based" as in similar dimensions etc, to keep commonality with tracks, wheels, etc production... Not sure. If its K9 chassis, then yeah, horrible.
 

radion

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Most likely DRDO light tank will have a Desi turret and gun. Initially I was more inclined that Hull would be a new one too but now l&t has been chosen as partner confirmed by drdo chief, possibility of K9 hull can't be discarded. But there may be a new hull too.

Arjun rifled 120mm cannon with soft recoil and am autoloader can be a solution, would save us on developing new 105mm ammo trypes.

Here, we laugh on type 15 with having a weight of 35 tons and having only105mm cannon.

If our light tank turns out to be 105mm cannon with K9 hull, that would be a disaster. How the hell would that be a light tank, but just a fire support vehicle, a light tank should have some good amount of protection. I am pretty sure K9 hull was not even designed to handle 20mm cannons leave alone 30mm ones.

Does anyone really think that a K9 hull based light tank would be better than type 15? Atleast type 15 hull could take a beating against medium calibre guns, RPGs and certain atgms. A K9 is just paper armour in comparision.

Also, wasn't the requirement for a 25 ton unicorn light tank with some 600mm+ rha armour and every gizmo they can find.
say they are working with L&T to reduce the weight of the 28-tonne Vajra chassis by 3-4 tonnes, which will bring the overall weight of the light tank to about 30 tonnes.
So without the turret it should weigh somewhere near 24tons.Overall i think it should be <35 tons .More likely a 30 ton tank. Some previous reports from 2020 also go upto 38tons for the Russian gun.But this one is of last year
Source is ajai Shukla. Don't know how much it can be trusted
 

Kuldeepm952

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So without the turret it should weigh somewhere near 24tons.Overall i think it should be <35 tons .More likely a 30 ton tank. Some previous reports from 2020 also go upto 38tons for the Russian gun.But this one is of last year
Source is ajai Shukla. Don't know how much it can be trusted
Ajai Shukla has been wrong a lot of times so I won't really take it with total credibility. But the news of 1000hp engine confirmed by chief matches with 1000hp of K9. Now the dread is setting in me and I think we are going towards a damn stupid solution using K9 hull, horrible news.
A 105mm gun with K9 hull would be the least capable light tank against type 15.
If RFI released by IA for light tank is to be followed, I am unable to see how this combo will even fulfil the armour requirement even if it's lowered a bit and weight requirement is increased to say upto 35tons.
If RFI is followed strictly, there is no doubt that a design has to be made from scratch.

Or are we just using light tank name for fire support vehicle. To my knowledge IA is intended to use them as fighting other tanks, just that our tanks will be lighter.
Anyway if our light tank is intended to fight their type15, ztz96 and ztz99 combo then a 105mm would not cut it. It's better to use atleast 120mm cannon with soft recoil like already proven on CV90-120.
 

Chinmoy

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This is Invar, missile+pusher similiar to KE round+ propellant, autoloader design restricts length of missile
View attachment 162702
This is single piece SAMHO design similiar to lahat, single piece and looks much lengthier than above missile piece
View attachment 162703

If SAMHO length doesn't fits Invar dimensions than good luck adopting it for 125mm cannon.
There is a reason why autoloader of t90 has a problem with adopting longer KE rounds.
SAMHO too uses the same missile+pusher configuration.


You could clearly see the pusher falling off after firing.

Regarding length, Invar-M is 680mm compared to 1000mm of SAMHO. Now rather then length, it would be the mass of 125mm SAMHO which would be more of a concern. Increasing the diameter by keeping the length intact would mean increase in mass which right now is 1.3kg more then Invar. So the most logical step would be to bring down the length.
 

ezsasa

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Ajai Shukla has been wrong a lot of times so I won't really take it with total credibility. But the news of 1000hp engine confirmed by chief matches with 1000hp of K9. Now the dread is setting in me and I think we are going towards a damn stupid solution using K9 hull, horrible news.
A 105mm gun with K9 hull would be the least capable light tank against type 15.
If RFI released by IA for light tank is to be followed, I am unable to see how this combo will even fulfil the armour requirement even if it's lowered a bit and weight requirement is increased to say upto 35tons.
If RFI is followed strictly, there is no doubt that a design has to be made from scratch.

Or are we just using light tank name for fire support vehicle. To my knowledge IA is intended to use them as fighting other tanks, just that our tanks will be lighter.
Anyway if our light tank is intended to fight their type15, ztz96 and ztz99 combo then a 105mm would not cut it. It's better to use atleast 120mm cannon with soft recoil like already proven on CV90-120.
On what muricans are planning to do with their light tanks.
=====
Explaining the MPF Light Tank's Future Role (U.S. Army)
 

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