DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Butter Chicken]

 

[Chinmoy]

So you mean it will be coming in next 10 years

I don't see such nonsensical dreams. It would come in next 2 year.

 

[SUPERPOWER]

I don't see such nonsensical dreams. It would come in next 2 year.

Chalo bhai aapne 3 se 2 kiya....aur kisi ko ulti boli lagana hai to yaha kar sakte hai...

 

[johnj]

True fact...South korea also..

T 50, FA 50, similar to lca trainer. Also 4.5 gen not 5th gen, 5th comes later, and AMCA mk1 5th gen.

 

[NeXoft007]

For the "Ghost Guests" keeping an eye on this thread...
Jai Shri Ram
A good communist is a dead communist
Poorkistan Murdabad

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Turks aerospace industry seem to be impressive.

their supersonic drone jet prototype just entered production

Turkey and South Korea essentially do screwdriver giri at a much larger scale than India with imported European products. They don't hold an autonomous or innovative industry essentially.

 

[johnj]

Turkey and South Korea essentially do screwdriver giri at a much larger scale than India with imported European products. They don't hold an autonomous or innovative industry essentially.

Turkey - at least they are selling military drones
South Korea - ''woow'' we are buying from them, won 3 competitions, and plus SAM systems,SSK, KHD. LPD, MBT. IFV and list goes on and importantly T 50/FA 50, which is similar to lca trainer, and they are developing 4.5 gen and 5th gen after that and with LM help.
In the case of turkey, they they are developing every thing fast, with EU, Pak help may be and they are trying to get more help from EU, US, Russia, China.
Turkey won replenishment ship, South Korea won Short Range Air Defence, Mine sweeper Vessel, Mobile Artillery, and in P75 race with proven AIP, Li ion cell, VLS and only one in race now.
Bottom line - they are weapons exporters, selling major weapons like warship, SAMs, Planes, Tanks etc.

 

[radion]

Turkey - at least they are selling military drones
South Korea - ''woow'' we are buying from them, won 3 competitions, and plus SAM systems,SSK, KHD. LPD, MBT. IFV and list goes on and importantly T 50/FA 50, which is similar to lca trainer, and they are developing 4.5 gen and 5th gen after that and with LM help.
In the case of turkey, they they are developing every thing fast, with EU, Pak help may be and they are trying to get more help from EU, US, Russia, China.
Turkey won replenishment ship, South Korea won Short Range Air Defence, Mine sweeper Vessel, Mobile Artillery, and in P75 race with proven AIP, Li ion cell, VLS and only one in race now.
Bottom line - they are weapons exporters, selling major weapons like warship, SAMs, Planes, Tanks etc.

Akele karne ka chakkar me ,hum sab se piche.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Turkey - at least they are selling military drones
South Korea - ''woow'' we are buying from them, won 3 competitions, and plus SAM systems,SSK, KHD. LPD, MBT. IFV and list goes on and importantly T 50/FA 50, which is similar to lca trainer, and they are developing 4.5 gen and 5th gen after that and with LM help.
In the case of turkey, they they are developing every thing fast, with EU, Pak help may be and they are trying to get more help from EU, US, Russia, China.
Turkey won replenishment ship, South Korea won Short Range Air Defence, Mine sweeper Vessel, Mobile Artillery, and in P75 race with proven AIP, Li ion cell, VLS and only one in race now.
Bottom line - they are weapons exporters, selling major weapons like warship, SAMs, Planes, Tanks etc.

No, it still doesn't matter and high chunk requirements of Indian armed forces which made India import 32 ships from foreign yards.

The production models to follow beyond US, France & Russia would be UK, Germany, Italy, Japan and even Brazil to some extent. Turkey, SoKo and Iran etc. are essentially underdogs in military manufacturing.

Akele karne ka chakkar me ,hum sab se piche.

Not really. Joint venture and import-integrate are two different things. Integrating mere foreign systems doesn't push you ahead, collaborating with an experienced state does, like France or Israel in case of India.

 

[Anandhu Krishna]

Aren't they developing ficv with L&T!? What is this!? Is this the Light tank!?

 

[radion]

No, it still doesn't matter and high chunk requirements of Indian armed forces which made India import 32 ships from foreign yards.

The production models to follow beyond US, France & Russia would be UK, Germany, Italy, Japan and even Brazil to some extent. Turkey, SoKo and Iran etc. are essentially underdogs in military manufacturing.

Not really. Joint venture and import-integrate are two different things. Integrating mere foreign systems doesn't push you ahead, collaborating with an experienced state does, like France or Israel in case of India.

Uhhh...which 5th gen is a joint venture?The Indonesians are barely doing much with regards to KFX.
Integrating foreign system with indigenous platforms does push you ahead. Afterall you can look for alternatives or create one regarding these subsystems if you get sanctioned. In terms of autonomy,amca is indeed superior to both the other two but timeline wise? I am not sure. Better hope the AF people are patient seeing other countries develop and field "5th gen aircrafts" sooner than us.

 

[radion]

Well let me ask you people where is the Indian SSBN equipment of South Korea or Turkey. Or the Agni ICBM or K4 SLBM equivalent of these countries.

A lot of the time while evaluating the military prowess of countries we tend to ignore the non conventional military assets which are the most effective deterrence against any enemy. These are the most expensive & resource intensive weapons that money cannot buy.

The topic of discussion was 5th gen aircrafts and i've kept it within that.
johnj is talking about the prowess of their defense industry.
And here you seem to be talking about the military prowess of the country.
Anyway since you brought up those points,i should tell you that both sk and tk have not much need for that. Why? For sk,American bases itself are a deterrent and turkey needs deterrent against whom exactly? Nor can they arm it with the actual thing.
Startegic non conventional assets like these exist to make sure nobody invades you as well as MAD.They don't exist to win a war. Nor would you want to use it an area which you want to occupy.You can prove me wrong by posting examples of Russia using ICBM,SLBM,SSBN against Ukraine,if you want to.

>India invested on assets that can determine the outcome of a War. Where as the product of those countries that has been elevated to a pedestal by you people can only provide tactical utility.

Bruhhhh..are you going to use icbm's when liberating pok and irradiate the place thereby making the liberation useless or are you gonna use conventional weapons?

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Are sss defence guns any good didn't find any video online of them shooting except the sniper rifle and are they in trails with army?

 

[The Saffron Knight]

@radion You are just too intelligent a person to reason with.

i should tell you that both sk and tk have not much need for that. Why? For sk,American bases itself are a deterrent turkey needs deterrent against whom exactly?

Which country hands over the security of their country to a 3rd party ? Maybe a country that doesn't have a spine, but lets not go there.

Which country doesn't need ICBMs or Nuclear powered submarines ?Maybe the ones who are contractually obligated to not have them.

Do Nuclear weapons come free for those who have it ?

Leave that where is the Vikrant class equivalent military asset of these countries ?

Startegic non conventional assets like these exist to make sure nobody invades you as well as MAD.They don't exist to win a war. Nor would you want to use it an area which you want to occupy.You can prove me wrong by posting examples of Russia using ICBM,SLBM,SSBN against Ukraine,if you want to.

Well who needs Russia. Do you know how World War 2 ended ?

Bruhhhh..are you going to use icbm's when liberating pok and irradiate the place thereby making the liberation useless or are you gonna use conventional weapons?

Do you have a doubt in case there is an actual war between India & Pakistan that nuclear weapons will not be used ? Do you think Pakistanis will act like sitting ducks as we tear appart their country ? Absolute not both sides will go nuclear.

Because PoK is already heavily militarised & because of its proximity with Rawalpindi . They may field their tactical Nukes there. So the response may also be nuclear. Though only time will tell that.

Well at the end I would like to say.

While you were simping on South Korea & Turkey you aswered your own question on why India lacks the screw driver giri industry similar to them.

The answer is simple When you don't bear the security burden of your own country & offset it to a 3rd party you can invest in exotic systems for exports.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Uhhh...which 5th gen is a joint venture?The Indonesians are barely doing much with regards to KFX.
Integrating foreign system with indigenous platforms does push you ahead. Afterall you can look for alternatives or create one regarding these subsystems if you get sanctioned. In terms of autonomy,amca is indeed superior to both the other two but timeline wise? I am not sure. Better hope the AF people are patient seeing other countries develop and field "5th gen aircrafts" sooner than us.

KFX isn't even a proper 5th generation fighter as far as engaged systems are concerned. It's a dog fighter with poor stealth and indeed is an American-Korean joint venture with inputs from Lockheed (where Indonesia will only end up assemblies later).

The "other states" essentially are far from being a threat to India given low financial and industrial ability to field large no. of advanced systems. India's strict focus should be building homegrown capacity to end dependence on/inferiority against West, Russia and China. A "race" against countries with no real autonomous capacity would just be childish.

Capacity built today will bear fruits decades later too. Trying to field 5th g just few years "before" Turkey/Korea or humans in space just "before" Iran have absolutely zero long and short-term gains. That's only a 15 years old uneducated teeny nationalist stuff.
So what you are suggesting will be worst thing for Indian administration to do. But fortunately, they are mature and far sighted enough.
An independent AMCA in 2030 is better than an imported assembly in 2025 and a delayed but full fledged 400km multi-days long Gaganyaan and space station is better than a few minutes long 70-80km high mission Iran gonna for show off.

 

[mokoman]

Turkey and South Korea essentially do screwdriver giri at a much larger scale than India with imported European products. They don't hold an autonomous or innovative industry essentially.

i would say designing and building a supersonic combat drone jet is innovative .

i would rather we build something by importing parts where ever possible then induct them , than whole sale importing drones for billions.

KFX isn't even a proper 5th generation fighter as far as engaged systems are concerned. It's a dog fighter with poor stealth and indeed is an American-Korean joint venture with inputs from Lockheed (where Indonesia will only end up assemblies later).

The "other states" essentially are far from being a threat to India given low financial and industrial ability to field large no. of advanced systems. India's strict focus should be building homegrown capacity to end dependence on/inferiority against West, Russia and China. A "race" against countries with no real autonomous capacity would just be childish.

Capacity built today will bear fruits decades later too. Trying to field 5th g just few years "before" Turkey/Korea or humans in space just "before" Iran have absolutely zero long and short-term gains. That's only a 15 years old uneducated teeny nationalist stuff.
So what you are suggesting will be worst thing for Indian administration to do. But fortunately, they are mature and far sighted enough.
An independent AMCA in 2030 is better than an imported assembly in 2025 and a delayed but full fledged 400km multi-days long Gaganyaan and space station is better than a few minutes long 70-80km high mission Iran gonna for show off.

An independent AMCA in 2030 is better than an imported assembly in 2025

i agree , but the problem is '2030' , its most likely will be 2032+ and only god knows even if that is possible.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

i would say designing and building a supersonic combat drone is innovative .

i would rather we build something by importing parts where ever possible then induct them , than whole sale importing drones for billions.

My overall point is that Turkey is no pioneer in aerospace to be taken as a threat or a competitor. It is well focused on drones though.
Lead in Europe is essentially France followed by UK, Italy and Germany.

 

[radion]

My overall point is that Turkey is no pioneer in aerospace to be taken as a threat or a competitor. It is well focused on drones though.
Lead in Europe is essentially France followed by UK, Italy and Germany.

Jets-
LCA/hurjet
AMCA/TAI TFX
MWF/ No equivalent
TEBDF/ No eauivalent
Heli-
LCH/TAI ATAK
LUH/ No equivalent
ALH/TAI T625
IMRH/T925
No equivalent/t629
No equivalent/t929
And this is excluding drones.

They are slowly catching up. I will still say that the process of design,development , government approval and production of both tk and sk are superior to us. Both of them adhere to timelines more than us.

 

[radion]

Mazagon Dock CMD Vice Adm Narayan Prasad suggests bold steps in trials & testing of Scorpene submarines - ET Infra

The head of India’s biggest warship builder, the State-run Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Ltd, wants the government to take “some bold steps” on submarine manufacturing in the country.

infra.economictimes.indiatimes.com

According to cmd of MDL, one of the scorpene submarines are test firing missiles now. INS vagir is in sea trials now. Maybe one of the notams is related to that?
Also he asks on the govt to kick out naval group and replace them with drdo so both production as well as the testing can be done indigenously .

 

[johnj]

No, it still doesn't matter and high chunk requirements of Indian armed forces which made India import 32 ships from foreign yards.
The production models to follow beyond US, France & Russia would be UK, Germany, Italy, Japan and even Brazil to some extent. Turkey, SoKo and Iran etc. are essentially underdogs in military manufacturing.

What 32 ships ? IN only import boats we are unable to produce, for example AC, Minesweepers, SSK, SSN, LHD, etc and with tech transfer, and yes, brought Deepak-class fleet tanker with out tech, so new tender with tech.
ROK Navy having 19 ssk, 12 ddg, 14 ffg,2 lph etc and majority of their ships build in Korea, and major exporter.
In military manufacturing, US, Russia, China, France, UK, Germany, Italy and Japan having their own industries and capability, and Brazil- don't they import majority of high tech tech ?