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FalconSlayers

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Paywalled if anyone has subscriptions pls post.
It costs just ₹5, don’t be kanjoos. They know it becomes difficult for people to buy subscription of all sites so they’re offering each paywalled article seperately.
 

vampyrbladez

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It costs just ₹5, don’t be kanjoos. They know it becomes difficult for people to buy subscription of all sites so they’re offering each paywalled article seperately.
Sandeep Unnithan and Shiv Aroor have a cutting chai on my tab! (Rs 5)

UPDATE: The pay portal is shit. Lost Rs. 50 trying to unlock the article and still no results!
 
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Tridev123

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A development which we should not ignore. But I believe we have the defence potential to match and also exceed the Pakistani armed forces acquired capabilities.

This is not an bolt from the blue. The Chinese objective of trying to pin down India to South Asia and fuel an arms race between India and Pakistan was long known.
They will try to bolster all three arms of Pakistan, namely the Army, Air Force and Navy.

Probably drawing inspiration from the erstwhile strategy of the United States to hyphenate India and Pakistan in South Asia. Treating both as equal when the reality was that India always had far greater potential for growth vis-a-vis Pakistan.

The Americans have realised their folly and changed course during the last decade but the Chinese probably are enamoured by this expired policy.

The Western block led by the US cannot ignore the continued build up of Pakistan's military capability enabled by the Chinese. Pakistan already has capability to launch medium range ballistic missiles which probably can reach most parts of India. Courtesy Chinese help. It is not totally improbable that Islamabad might in the future be provided technical help to develop ICBM's. If they manage to develop capability to strike Europe or even parts of the US, then the mad Mullah-Military combine will prove difficult for the US to control. Since the Pakis already have nuclear weapons which can be mated with the missiles. No one can guarantee that Pakistan will not proliferate the technology to Muslim countries in West Asia. Getting money in return.

Cheap Middle East oil could simply not be available anymore. And also the reality of the increased danger to Israel's existence.

Maybe Washington would choose balkanisation of Pakistan in order to prevent Islamabad from posing an danger to the rest of the world.

Coming to the specific threat from Rocket Artillery due to Chinese help to Pakistan, though our Pinaka mk1, Pinaka mk2 and Smerch are effective, an indigenous 300mm or 300mm plus rocket artillery programme is needed. We presently do not have any indigenous MBRL in the 300mm class. The technology is well within our reach. After having developed almost the entire range of ballistic missiles.

But it is not necessary to mimic the Chinese and develop an equivalent to every one of their long range rocket artillery systems. We should follow our own strategy.

The proposed sale of the Bhramos missile to the Philippines is a good step. Vietnam should be our next customer. Arming the South East Asian countries with lethal weapons would make them more capable of resisting Chinese bullying.

Two can play the game. If the Chinese want to raise the costs in South Asia for us, we can also raise the costs for them in their neighbourhood. We need to urgently develop long range fully indigenous subsonic (or supersonic) cruise missiles having ranges of upto 1500 km. Also the entire range of subsonic stealthy anti ship missiles including short, medium and long range. But fully indigenous which can be exported freely. Which can then be supplied to countries like Vietnam. Expanding nuclear cooperation with Vietnam is also desirable. They should have their own nuclear weapons capability. Did not the Chinese nuclear arm the North Koreans.
Hope we become able to fully design and manufacture an indigenous non nuclear submarine with AIP which can be exported to countries in China's neighbourhood.

We need to dramatically increase cooperation with the Japanese Navy because they have the potential to seriously challenge the PLAN.

Our defence capabilities are not staying static. The new 800 km Brahmos land attack variant can probably strike Pakistan's Gwadar Port even when fired from the Indian mainland. Probably when fired from Gujarat. Just one example. I am sure that we will find an answer to each one of Pakistan's newly acquired weapons.
 

Shashank Nayak

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See this is what happening
Our gernails won't understand until they face defeat with huge casualties and this is not my frustration but the truth I can bet we can't fight the 2 front scenario any time in future
Or the cowardly military brass in India, want Indian Army to be under equipped, so that they will be able to avoid war, citing lack of artillery to the Government of the day, and retire on fat pensions, and live for another 25 years, drinking whisky..:daru:
 

Shuturmurg

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A development which we should not ignore. But I believe we have the defence potential to match and also exceed the Pakistani armed forces acquired capabilities.

This is not an bolt from the blue. The Chinese objective of trying to pin down India to South Asia and fuel an arms race between India and Pakistan was long known.
They will try to bolster all three arms of Pakistan, namely the Army, Air Force and Navy.

Probably drawing inspiration from the erstwhile strategy of the United States to hyphenate India and Pakistan in South Asia. Treating both as equal when the reality was that India always had far greater potential for growth vis-a-vis Pakistan.

The Americans have realised their folly and changed course during the last decade but the Chinese probably are enamoured by this expired policy.

The Western block led by the US cannot ignore the continued build up of Pakistan's military capability enabled by the Chinese. Pakistan already has capability to launch medium range ballistic missiles which probably can reach most parts of India. Courtesy Chinese help. It is not totally improbable that Islamabad might in the future be provided technical help to develop ICBM's. If they manage to develop capability to strike Europe or even parts of the US, then the mad Mullah-Military combine will prove difficult for the US to control. Since the Pakis already have nuclear weapons which can be mated with the missiles. No one can guarantee that Pakistan will not proliferate the technology to Muslim countries in West Asia. Getting money in return.

Cheap Middle East oil could simply not be available anymore. And also the reality of the increased danger to Israel's existence.

Maybe Washington would choose balkanisation of Pakistan in order to prevent Islamabad from posing an danger to the rest of the world.

Coming to the specific threat from Rocket Artillery due to Chinese help to Pakistan, though our Pinaka mk1, Pinaka mk2 and Smerch are effective, an indigenous 300mm or 300mm plus rocket artillery programme is needed. We presently do not have any indigenous MBRL in the 300mm class. The technology is well within our reach. After having developed almost the entire range of ballistic missiles.

But it is not necessary to mimic the Chinese and develop an equivalent to every one of their long range rocket artillery systems. We should follow our own strategy.

The proposed sale of the Bhramos missile to the Philippines is a good step. Vietnam should be our next customer. Arming the South East Asian countries with lethal weapons would make them more capable of resisting Chinese bullying.

Two can play the game. If the Chinese want to raise the costs in South Asia for us, we can also raise the costs for them in their neighbourhood. We need to urgently develop long range fully indigenous subsonic (or supersonic) cruise missiles having ranges of upto 1500 km. Also the entire range of subsonic stealthy anti ship missiles including short, medium and long range. But fully indigenous which can be exported freely. Which can then be supplied to countries like Vietnam. Expanding nuclear cooperation with Vietnam is also desirable. They should have their own nuclear weapons capability. Did not the Chinese nuclear arm the North Koreans.
Hope we become able to fully design and manufacture an indigenous non nuclear submarine with AIP which can be exported to countries in China's neighbourhood.

We need to dramatically increase cooperation with the Japanese Navy because they have the potential to seriously challenge the PLAN.

Our defence capabilities are not staying static. The new 800 km Brahmos land attack variant can probably strike Pakistan's Gwadar Port even when fired from the Indian mainland. Probably when fired from Gujarat. Just one example. I am sure that we will find an answer to each one of Pakistan's newly acquired weapons.
On the other hand our forces are not even spending budget allocated to them.

Look at this :

Navy has spent 90% of capital outlay.:clap2:
Airforce has spent 70% of capital outlay. 😕
Army has spent only 40% of capital outlay. :mad2:

On top of that army "sources" are complaining that this is due to restriction on buying foreign equipment. :rage:
 

SUPERPOWER

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See this is what happening
Our gernails won't understand until they face defeat with huge casualties and this is not my frustration but the truth I can bet we can't fight the 2 front scenario any time in future
Our Generals are smart and well planned...They know how to milk a cow at right time...They want some major escalation should happen so that they can go for emergency procurement where they will get desired phoren maal and gaal....Tab tak drdo, GOI , Pvt players ko ghumate rahe in the name of testing and additional requirements so that product wont come out....I believe the only way to get out of this Keep Indian Genrols and Chandigarh lobby out of defence Procurement.....GOI should create a seperate procurement team of experts....
 

India Super Power

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Our Generals are smart and well planned...They know how to milk a cow at right time...They want some major escalation should happen so that they can go for emergency procurement where they will get desired phoren maal and gaal....Tab tak drdo, GOI , Pvt players ko ghumate rahe in the name of testing and additional requirements so that product wont come out....I believe the only way to get out of this Keep Indian Genrols and Chandigarh lobby out of defence Procurement.....GOI should create a seperate procurement team of experts....
Right now very less chances exist for us being self reliant and this is actual national threat
 

Whitecollar

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Right now very less chances exist for us being self reliant and this is actual national threat
Make a rule of "MoD's decision will be dictated and will be final" incase IA, IAF or IN is incapable of technically defending how desi alternatives are not compatible to their needs and requirements compared to Phoren Maal within 6 months-1 year. MoD in such cases will take procurement decisions of their own and it will only be applicable to Desi alternatives.
 

Shuturmurg

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Btw, does anyone know what happens if army doesn't spend the allocated budget for the year ? Does money get carried over to next year ?
 

FalconSlayers

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On the other hand our forces are not even spending budget allocated to them.

Look at this :

Navy has spent 90% of capital outlay.:clap2:
Airforce has spent 70% of capital outlay. 😕
Army has spent only 40% of capital outlay. :mad2:

On top of that army "sources" are complaining that this is due to restriction on buying foreign equipment. :rage:
What happens to the saved money? And isn’t this a stupid excuse given that there are many other things where this money can be used and we make it domestically?
 

Whitecollar

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Questions are,
What numbers we do want?
What calibers we do want?

First lets short these out rather then follow Pakis in shooting our own feet.
It took ten years for IA(one of the most experienced in MGS) to ascertain what caliber and what numbers??
 

vampyrbladez

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Ok got access to the Sandeep Unnithan article after 30 mins thanks to their shitty paywall system.

https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/...-a-call-to-indigenous-arms-1905432-2022-01-28

Good News :

Massive push for indigenisation

200 K9 155mm SPGM

ATHOS dead / ATAGS will be inducted

QRSAM / ALH and other indigenous equipment contracted or will be contracted

Bad News :

Sig 716i follow on 72,400 guns deal may be scrapped now that AK 203 is here and army's requirements have been met.

Although J&K police have asked for 500 of these guns and the article talks about an exception that can be provided by Defence Minister with no previous mention in any of the recent big deal cancellations.

There are no homegrown alternatives by the private sector and the overall cost is comparatively low (700 crore).

An article from September 2021 spoke of a 'price negotiation' that would take 6 months (March 2022 ?).



Credits : India Today
 
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Chinmoy

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It took ten years for IA(one of the most experienced in MGS) to ascertain what caliber and what numbers??
Give any army to decide about a caliber to be used in desert of Thar, plains of Punjab, cold heights of Himalayas and wet humid tropics of East and they would ask for 4 different system.

But we have to make use of 1 system in all these weather and geographical condition.

Its too easy to rant endlessly here. But when you have to decide for your own, then you would know what to do.
 

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