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The Shrike

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There are some glaring disadvantages to using it for maritime patroling, because it was not designed to cover long distances fast while being fuel efficient. Commercial long haul airliner (low fuel consuming turbofan) is the best platform for MPA conversion.

C-295 is designed as a medium tactical airlifter- meant to take off/land on short badly prepared runways. It's chonky landing gear housing should give an idea of the environment it feels most at home in:


Heavy MLG translating into less payload & range- is totally avoidable for planes that are based at INS Rajali with awesome infrastructure.

Secondly, C295 is a turboprop. That has speed & range disadvantages (both crucial for scanning the vast IOR) in the MPA role:

Shorter flights are more efficient in turboprops and longer flights more efficient in turbofans. Most turboprops are limited to Mach 0.5 to 0.6, and altitudes in the 35,000 foot range, with a handful of turboprops reaching the Mach 0.7 and 40,000 feet. Turboprops are better at lower altitudes and speeds, turbofans at higher altitudes and speeds.

P8I is based on the commercial airliner Boeing 737. The low speed will impact how much time you take to declare a certain ocean search area free of Chinese subs or indeed how soon you can scan and hunt them down. C295 has much lesser range than the 737, it is much smaller also.

It can be done but is far from ideal. Just a look at their ferry range (one among many other parameters):

ERJ-145 3,700 kms (Netra AEW&CS)
C295 1,555 kms
P8A 8,300 kms

Most ubiquitous MPAs till date were turbo props (P3, Il-38, Atalantic) compared to jet powered ones. Only recently we have seen the move to Jet powered ones P8 and Japanese P1. Turbofans are better at cursing , i.e. lower transit time but for ASW role usually means the aircraft has to come down to lower altitude and and loiter (i.e. advantage turbo props). So it's really a compromise. C-295 should do fine for SAR, and shorter range MPA role but its only 1/4 the size of P-8 so cant really compare the capabilities of the two. One alternative that I see is the Airbus A320 MPA proposal - its hasn't been fully funded AFAIK but might be something we can have a JV with the French, will need serious investment though, wont be easy to compete with a system that has had a production run of 100+, with the main customer taking care of debugging and assured upgrades to the platform.
 

MonaLazy

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for ASW role usually means the aircraft has to come down to lower altitude and loiter

if your MPA does not have the legs to get where it needs to in the ocean then how does it matter if it is more efficient at lower altitude? & I am not aware of the exact profile a P8I needs to fly to detect hostile subs- but I imagine they stay fairly high up and fast and drop sonobuoys in the area of interest. A turbofan can fly low and slow- burning more fuel but it is possible & if that's what the mission demands, but a turboprop can't fly high, fast and long. Maybe that's what makes P8s the world's most advanced MPA?


 
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Kuldeepm952

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All of our tankers, asw planes, AEW&C, ISTAR, an32 replacement problem may have been solved had we focused atleast on proving a passanger plane in a320 class type. Except tanker and bigger AWACS, we would had a platform for almost all other needs and also an alternate to il 276 having similiar 20 ton payload to a320, replacement for an 32.
So much could have been done and yet everyone in indigenization dept. remains blind to these obvious low hanging, high returns programme.
 

Javelin_Sam

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30 MQ9 drone deal is almost in the final stages of paperwork. The navy will get 10 Tritons. Exceptional range, sensor ability and low opex, less turnaround time. That is 12 P8i + 10 Triton. 22 potent naval ISR and ASW platforms.
And this 787, A330 based ASW platforms are just wet dreams. It will not happen. A fleet 10 of those 787 with that mega fuel guzzling GE engines patrolling 24*7 will skyrocket the fuel and opex expenditure of navy.
Indian Peninsula, Andaman, French territories in IOR where IN recently signed for basing rights are more than enough to enable 737 and a320 like platforms to reach all important area of interest in IOR
 
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Shuturmurg

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As far as i know india have more than 12 hypersonic wind tunnels
Does DPRK has any hypersonic wind tunnel?then how they developed Mach-10 missile??
North Korea tested a ballistic missile with MARV (Maneuverable Reentry Vehicle).


Stupid media houses for click bait are putting hypersonic in headings (which they technically are).
 

The Shrike

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Chill down guys, the P8I Npetune is placed in the deferment list as of now, not in the negative list.
If a viable alternative is not found, then additional P8I Neptunes would definetly be inducted.
IIRC the production line for P8 is actually coming to an end in a few years, we'll not have for ever to make a decision.
 

thebakofbakchod

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Say what you want about the turks, but their aviation city concept is super good.


Having everything in place at 1 place will greatly streamline costs. Plus the buildings look top notch. Indian PSU buildings look absymal from the outside and screams 4th world. Yes i know looks dont mean anything but it still shows the state of investmnents from the outside. Why is MOD not investing more into these facilities is beyond me
 

Lonewolf

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Say what you want about the turks, but their aviation city concept is super good.


Having everything in place at 1 place will greatly streamline costs. Plus the buildings look top notch. Indian PSU buildings look absymal from the outside and screams 4th world. Yes i know looks dont mean anything but it still shows the state of investmnents from the outside. Why is MOD not investing more into these facilities is beyond me
Tell me one thing , what matters is the building or the facilities they have , turkey Don't have a good supersonic wind tunnel , their subsonic is under construction , and hypersonic is a pipe dream as of now .

Instead of fancy building , what matters are specific tech and unlike turkey which get lot of TOT from EU we don't have that privilege so we can't waste money on gimmicks like this .
 

Akula

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Tell me one thing , what matters is the building or the facilities they have , turkey Don't have a good supersonic wind tunnel , their subsonic is under construction , and hypersonic is a pipe dream as of now .

Instead of fancy building , what matters are specific tech and unlike turkey which get lot of TOT from EU we don't have that privilege so we can't waste money on gimmicks like this .
And now they will have not have easy excess to TOT from US or EU due to their S400 saga and sanctions.
 

Shuturmurg

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Say what you want about the turks, but their aviation city concept is super good.


Having everything in place at 1 place will greatly streamline costs. Plus the buildings look top notch. Indian PSU buildings look absymal from the outside and screams 4th world. Yes i know looks dont mean anything but it still shows the state of investmnents from the outside. Why is MOD not investing more into these facilities is beyond me
I am pretty sure our PSU building look like that because they were built 20-30 years back. If you go to any university in US, the building constructed in the 70's and 80's look like our PSU buildings, whereas newer ones look like this turkish building.
 

ShouvikGhosh

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Chill down guys, the P8I Npetune is placed in the deferment list as of now, not in the negative list.
If a viable alternative is not found, then additional P8I Neptunes would definetly be inducted.
Does India current have any program to create P8I based alternate platforms ? Like the NETRA mk-1 and mk-2.
If not then what is the point of even considering the ban on importing them.
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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Does India current have any program to create P8I based alternate platforms ? Like the NETRA mk-1 and mk-2.
If not then what is the point of even considering the ban on importing them.
I guess DRDO must have developed various subsystems required to make a desi MPA which is why the P8I is placed in the deferment list.
 

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