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flanker99

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Yes but a line has to be drawn somewhere. These are collateral damages.

We need to learn to stand on our feet . No matter the growing pains.
It can be done by other means...we are already stuck with 12 p8 for nxt 30 years(means 30 more years of US dependence) buying more of them will not hurt our sovereignty in any way but not buying means leaving gaps in capabilities that cant be fulfilled by anything anytime soon..specially now when chinese presence in IOR is ever increasing.
If govt wants show seriousness then they should throw a few billions and develop an aircraft that can safely replace these.
 

Dessert Storm

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Maybe..desi alternative?
There apparantly are two lists.
1. Closure list- the items in this list "cannot" be imported. Either domestic equivalent is available or make under Strategic Partnership Model.
2. Deferment list- if no domestic equivalent found, then exemption is to be sought for import.
P8i and the likes may be in deferment list. Let's wait for the lists from official sources.
 

Akula

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P8I is very effective and advanced Maritime patrol Aircraft. Atleast they could have ordered additional tranche and called quit. There are no alternatives to P8i. Also the planned feet and operational deployment will be in limbo now with incomplete fleet.
Are they looking at maritime patrol aircraft version of C-295? Indian coast guard will also order them.
 

MonaLazy

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Probably because we lack a common aircraft for all these kinds of projects.

I think once tata starts manufacturing c295 we may utilise that for multiple projects maritime patrol like p8i , ew warfare , small tanker etc.
C 295 will be ideal for anti submarine role
There are some glaring disadvantages to using it for maritime patroling, because it was not designed to cover long distances fast while being fuel efficient. Commercial long haul airliner (low fuel consuming turbofan) is the best platform for MPA conversion.

C-295 is designed as a medium tactical airlifter- meant to take off/land on short badly prepared runways. It's chonky landing gear housing should give an idea of the environment it feels most at home in:


Heavy MLG translating into less payload & range- is totally avoidable for planes that are based at INS Rajali with awesome infrastructure.

Secondly, C295 is a turboprop. That has speed & range disadvantages (both crucial for scanning the vast IOR) in the MPA role:

Shorter flights are more efficient in turboprops and longer flights more efficient in turbofans. Most turboprops are limited to Mach 0.5 to 0.6, and altitudes in the 35,000 foot range, with a handful of turboprops reaching the Mach 0.7 and 40,000 feet. Turboprops are better at lower altitudes and speeds, turbofans at higher altitudes and speeds.

P8I is based on the commercial airliner Boeing 737. The low speed will impact how much time you take to declare a certain ocean search area free of Chinese subs or indeed how soon you can scan and hunt them down. C295 has much lesser range than the 737, it is much smaller also.

It can be done but is far from ideal. Just a look at their ferry range (one among many other parameters):

ERJ-145 3,700 kms (Netra AEW&CS)
C295 1,555 kms
P8A 8,300 kms

 

Covfefe

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There are some glaring disadvantages to using it for maritime patroling, because it was not designed to cover long distances fast while being fuel efficient. Commercial long haul airliner (low fuel consuming turbofan) is the best platform for MPA conversion.

C-295 is designed as a medium tactical airlifter- meant to take off/land on short badly prepared runways. It's chonky landing gear housing should give an idea of the environment it feels most at home in:


Heavy MLG translating into less payload & range- is totally avoidable for planes that are based at INS Rajali with awesome infrastructure.

Secondly, C295 is a turboprop. That has speed & range disadvantages (both crucial for scanning the vast IOR) in the MPA role:

Shorter flights are more efficient in turboprops and longer flights more efficient in turbofans. Most turboprops are limited to Mach 0.5 to 0.6, and altitudes in the 35,000 foot range, with a handful of turboprops reaching the Mach 0.7 and 40,000 feet. Turboprops are better at lower altitudes and speeds, turbofans at higher altitudes and speeds.

P8I is based on the commercial airliner Boeing 737. The low speed will impact how much time you take to declare a certain ocean search area free of Chinese subs or indeed how soon you can scan and hunt them down. C295 has much lesser range than the 737, it is much smaller also.

It can be done but is far from ideal. Just a look at their ferry range (one among many other parameters):

ERJ-145 3,700 kms (Netra AEW&CS)
C295 1,555 kms
P8A 8,300 kms

Also, the electrical power availability from turboprops vs the power from turbofans. Sensor suite for a maritime patrol aircraft will demand more power(that's better anyday), that would extrapolate to some sort of cut down on capabilities. P8s and Migs shouldn't have been scrapped or delayed imo. Igla, kamov226 for army and airforce was bs deal from the beginning- good that they're gone now
 

not so dravidian

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My opinion: not so satisfactory.

MOD Babu/vishwaguru/Gentails shud give on how r the going to manage the gap.

Frankly speaking om happy deals such as NUH for coast gaurd and igla S r cancelled.

However now we r stuck in a race b/w TIME VS MONEY

We have wasted the former and it's prohibitive to waste it anymore.
 

MonaLazy

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P8s and Migs shouldn't have been scrapped or delayed imo
We can buy some Boeing 787-9s with 14010 km range- it offers a huge range and fuel efficiency being the latest tech from the giant powerhouse of Boeing & GE, convert that for very long-range MPA role with our own sensors with OEM support. Like Netra on Embraer ERJ-145.

Mig-29s got the axe I think because of general unhappiness with their reliability- the IN is making no bones about that fact & IAF experience should not be too far off. Besides, less Mig-29s means more Mk2/Rafale & with the arrival of UCAVs & defensive systems like S-400 the need for flying missions like BARCAPs with fighter planes has gone down. Missiles loose part of their shelf life after returning even unused from a sortie, so an AD net is a better approach to the Swift Retreat problem- especially when you can monitor what they are upto from many 00s of kms away.

Message to Russia- we will not buy unreliable equipment from you, even if it is cheap (Rafale over Mig-29) but we will buy your best (S-400) even in the face of Uncle Sam's CAATSA- that's a very confident pose methinks devoid of erstwhile servility!

TIME VS MONEY

We have wasted the former and it's prohibitive to waste it anymore.
Going by the number of missile tests DRDO is doing these days- it looks like the initial decades of IGMDP have more than paid off. This could be the start of another such revolution- only this time it won't take as long if we are smarter to diversify our suppliers (Russia/US/Europe/Israel/France/SoKo/Japan/even Turkey..) basket so if one supplier acts up there are other options.
 
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