DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[shuvo@y2k10]

Now that AK-203 deal is cleared, it should be relegated to support/reserve troops.

Next aim should be to order another 2-3 batch of Sig-716s to get the Infantry get covered.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Now that AK-203 deal is cleared, it should be relegated to support/reserve troops.

Next aim should be to order another 2-3 batch of Sig-716s to get the Infantry get covered.

@Maharaj skandgupta is probably going to abuse you when he sees this

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Okay good point, but even if we disregard tot for a second, what is wrong with the theory that part of this money is going to go into a government owned company?

If we had brought m4s, we would be paying all 700 dollars for a single gun to a Foriegn company, while buying a single ak, Ofb has 50 percent stake, cost of one gun is 1100$ , so they get 550 dollars. All that money is going to a government entity instead of a Foriegn firm.

Sure, modifying TAR would have been much much better, but I don't thinking people saying that buying an m4 instead of an AK are realising the full cost behind this.

Do you really think that if we had asked , for example, remington to provide m4s Plus a 50% stake in the joint venture, that they would have sold their m4s to us for 700 dollars??

So understand this that the whole rationale about inducting AK was to have a cheap rifle as 7.62 nato rifles were expensive to equip whole of army. Now, plot twist sig 716i costs less than this shitty ak, which is basically a Trichy rifle with rails and side folding stock. I thought modernization means equipping with new gen weapons not old ones , apparently we have decided to pay 1100$ for souped ak103, akm+ you can say instead of the latest Ak15. Russians must surely be rolling laughing their stomachs out. So the cat is out of the bag and is clear that price logic doesn't makes sense.

Now the problem with Russians is they have decided to form JV with OFB, they are very cunning in this regard. They know OFB is a seriously flawed organization which often makes flawed products, takes 3 times man hours and overcharges for its substandard products and hence puts themselves in a very favorable position in the deal to milk us as much as they want with we having no leverage.
Also this JV will be same as Brahmos one where it wont be having export possibility. They won't make competition for the same product which is produced in their home country. What after it has delivered 7 lakh rifles? Will it make new guns, new models? What about export potential with shitty ak with 1100 $ price tag setting it up for failure from start?

Form a JV with a good rifle manufacturer and become part of it's global supply chain, this is how you make your JV sustainable and profitable. Guess what, Russians don't do that.

Damn, just ask for license from various small firms parts producers from USA for rail dustcover, buttstock, magazine etc. And you have yourself a made in india cheaper than this 1100$ shitty ak.

I am damn sure if we play our cards right involving private players in rifles case especially since ofb is like a dead horse, we can easily get a deal of sub1000$ ar platform in 7.62 nato made in india for huge order of 7 lakhs rifle(you can equip whole of US army and US Marines with such a number, yeah just let that sink in)with being part of supply chain.

 

[Love Charger]

@Maharaj skandgupta is probably going to abuse you when he sees this

Na , he is right ak 203 has less range .
If it were upto me , I would have bought sigs and would have asked them to manufacture here or give tot to ofb. , we don't need ak platform except kashmir as far as army is concerned .
Iam not fan of ak 203 , iam just happy that insas will ve replaced.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Na , he is right ak 203 has less range .
If it were upto me , I would have bought sigs and would have asked them to manufacture here or give tot to ofb. , we don't need ak platform except kashmir as far as army is concerned .
Iam not fan of ak 203 , iam just happy that insas will ve replaced.

Did I read ToT to OFB... This is pure haram....
What is the definition of insanity?? Doing the same thing again and again and expecting different result. Please Saar, I have had enough of this ToT to OFB shit, any other good company/org would do. And surely being part of supply chain be mandatory for it being sustainable.

 

[The Shrike]

AK-203 deal is plain hafta payment to the Russians, no point trying to see logic in it. Neither is it possible to explain Army supposed sudden pivot to 7.62X39 round for conventional forces. Nor is it possible to justify the price - there has been no open market price discovery for this, if they had send out a tender for 600K rifles to be made in India (possibly in partnership with foreign firm), you might have had at least half a dozen contenders offering a lower price.

 

[Love Charger]

AK-203 deal is plain hafta payment to the Russians, no point trying to see logic in it. Neither is it possible to explain Army supposed sudden pivot to 7.62X39 round for conventional forces. Nor is it possible to justify the price - there has been no open market price discovery for this, if they had send out a tender for 600K rifles to be made in India (possibly in partnership with foreign firm), you might have had at least half a dozen contenders offering a lower price.

No major nation , with a proper standing military uses 7.62×39 mm round .
It's a early 50s round .
Even Warsaw pact changed to 5.45 mm round.
Here we are though

 

[no smoking]

Pardon for the last post,HGV like DF17 or avanguard was not talked about in it,it was scramjet powered decent basically for ground launch HCV
In the cruise phase, the vehicle will be propelled by long duration hydrocarbon fuelled scramjet engine to the destination. In the descent phase, the scramjet will be switched off and the vehicle will be decelerated to Mach 2 which result in a high energy impact. Waverider concept is utilized.
Dual combustion ramjet would used for air launched HCM

Why shutting down the engine in the final stage and slowing to 2 Mach?
Isn't the hypersonic speed the selling point?

 

[SavageKing456]

Why shutting down the engine in the final stage and slowing to 2 Mach?
Isn't the hypersonic speed the selling point?

Maybe it is because scramjet engine are designed to perform mid-flight at high altitude and not able to continue that in low altitude trajectory regions combined with decrease in flight number,there is a risk of loss of stability or even destruction of vehicle,not sure but this could be the reason.

 

[Karthi]

DRDO s Turbo Fan Engine for UAVs Will Make India Self Reliant In This Complex And Critical Technology G Satheesh Reddy Secretary DDR D Chairman DRDO



DRDO has been constructing upon the success based mostly on its breakthrough in missile applied sciences. It is way evident with the handover of Medium Range Surface to Air Missiles Systems to IAF. Now the duty upon DRDO is to attain such breakthroughs in growing indigenous aero-engine and marine engine. That consists of Small Turbo Fan Engine for unmanned system the place DRDO has accomplished design validation exams on floor and presently present process experimental flight trials. It is essentially the most advanced work of contemporary science and engineering which is achieved by only a few. Though not from scratch, DRDO has laid the muse manner again with Kaveri Engine. Furthermore, DRDO has already developed a 12 MW Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine (KMGT) engine as by-product of Kaveri Aero Engine. G. Satheesh Reddy, Secretary DDR&D & Chairman DRDO, talks about such innovation with Manish Kumar Jha of BW Businessworld. He additionally spoke on the important (Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) Technology for the Indian navy’s Project 75 and P75I. The Project 75 India is unfolding underneath first ever strategic partnership. The secret’s the know-how right here.

BW Businessworld’s Manish Kumar Jha with G. Satheesh Reddy, Secretary DDR&D & Chairman DRDO
Manish Ok. Jha: Could you inform us in regards to the proposed Combat Air Teaming System (CATS)? What are varieties of programs and subsystem are being deliberate? What is the proposed time line?
G. Satheesh Reddy: CATS isn’t a DRDO venture.
Manish Ok. Jha: DRDO’s Medium Range Surface-to Air Missile (MRSAM) System was just lately handed over to Indian Air Force (IAF) at Air Force which in collaboration with IAI. Could it’s probably accessible for export?
G. Satheesh Reddy: The MRSAM (IAF) has been handed over the Indian Air Force, which will likely be a sport changer within the air-defence-system. The is a complicated community centric fight Air Defence System developed collectively by DRDO and Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) in collaboration with the Indian business comprising of personal and public sectors together with MSMEs.

DRDO and Israel on Dual Technology

IT IS A BIG LEAP IN DIRECTION OF REACHING ‘AATMANIRBHAR BHARAT’. THE SYSTEM IS HAVING NICE POTENTIAL FOR EXPORT.

Abhyas
Manish Ok. Jha: Could you share the newest replace on Small Turbo Fan Engine aimed for unmanned aerial automobile purposes?
G. Satheesh Reddy:

WE HAVE DESIGNED, DEVELOPED AND MANUFACTURED A SMALL TURBO FAN ENGINE FOR UNMANNED AERIAL AUTOMOBILE PURPOSES WITH THE ASSIST OF INDIAN INDUSTRY. THE ENGINE HAS ACCOMPLISHED DESIGN VALIDATION EXAMS ON FLOOR AND PRESENTLY PRESENT PROCESS EXPERIMENTAL FLIGHT TRIALS.

On profitable completion of flight trials, derivatives of those engines will likely be manufactured for a wide range of unmanned aerial automobile purposes, making the nation ‘Atmanirbhar’ on this advanced and important know-how.
Manish Ok. Jha: Aero engine is a important space of aerospace engineering. India is struggling exhausting to attain excessive thrust turbofan engine for multirole fighter jets. Could you inform us the progress within the core areas of aero engine like: advance materials, forging, turbine, fan blade know-how, combustor amongst others?
G. Satheesh Reddy: Military gasoline turbine engines kind an integral a part of plane system. India being an aspiring nation took a daring stride in growing an indigenous army gasoline turbine very early with difficult necessities via the bold Kaveri engine improvement for LCA Tejas. Kaveri Engine, a 4th era army engine, is the primary indigenous aero gasoline turbine engine designed and constructed within the nation. Through this indigenous DRDO venture on army gasoline generators, enough Technology Readiness Level (TRL) within the subject of aero engines for fighter plane has been attained within the nation.

THIS FUNCTIONALITY IS AIDING THE NATION IN PRODUCING ESSENTIAL PROPULSION PROGRAMS FOR UNMANNED AERIAL AUTOMOBILES & WEAPON PLATFORMS TOGETHER WITH LENGTHY VARY WEAPON SUPPLY PROGRAMS, LIKE CRUISE MISSILE PROGRAMS. AS YOU MIGHT BE CONSCIOUS, THESE ENGINES ARE DENIED BY WORLD OEM’S FOR STRATEGIC PURPOSES.

Knowledge, ability set, expertise and experience gained via this engine improvement programme is invaluable for the nation and future engine programmes. Almost, a non-existent ecosystem has been constructed within the nation via the Kaveri venture for 4th era class of engine know-how. With the applied sciences developed via the Kaveri venture, immediately India is able to indigenously develop an influence plant for the strategic software of Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle (UCAV).

DRDO’s Rustom II

MORE THAN 3200 HOURS OF ENGINE TESTING HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED WHICH INCORPORATES SIMULATED ALTITUDE TEST AND FLYING TEST BED (FTB) TRIALS. TWELVE VARIETIES OF MATERIALS (TITANIUM, STEEL AND SUPER ALLOYS) HAVE BEEN INDIGENOUSLY DEVELOPED AND SORT LICENSED FOR AEROSPACE COMMONPLACE.

These alloys have been utilized in many aerospace and different programmes within the nation. Majority of the Titanium forgings have been developed indigenously and licensed for gasoline turbine purposes. Directionally Solidified (DS) funding casting know-how has been developed efficiently for excessive temperature turbine blade.
Manish Ok. Jha: Could you share the replace on marine engine know-how being developed by DRDO? What is the following era marine engine that’s being deliberated for Indian warships?
G. Satheesh Reddy:

DRDO’S GAS TURBINE RESEARCH ESTABLISHMENT (GTRE) HAS DEVELOPED A 12 MW KAVERI MARINE GAS TURBINE (KMGT) ENGINE AS BY-PRODUCT OF KAVERI AERO ENGINE. KMGT DEMONSTRATED IT’S EFFICIENCY IN TEST MATTRESS AT NAVAL DOCKYARD, VIZAG.

Next era engine requirement from Indian Navy will likely be Gas Turbine with extra energy output, relying on the recognized naval platform.
Manish Ok. Jha: When can we see the AIP system prepared for P75I?
G. Satheesh Reddy:

DRDO IS GROWING AIP FOR P75 SUBMARINES, THAT ARE ALREADY WITH THE NAVY. THE FIRST AIP IS ANTICIPATED TO BE PUT IN IN SUBSEQUENT SUBMARINE WHEN IT COMES FOR REFIT.

Subsequently, each two years thereafter, AIP will likely be put in in different submarines throughout their deliberate refits.

AIP Subsystem for Project 75I

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[Love Charger]

@Chinmoy @fire starter reasons why army is hesitant from procurement of lch I may be wrong but I think trials are complete along with helina and dhruvastra being ready for production.

Hal should re route the sell of LCH though Boeing .
It will help the army to buy the LCH as Boeing would be selling it .
And they must be sold at 4 times the price by Boeing to bleed the capex of the UN army.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

DRDO developed Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) and Missile Approach Warning Systems (MAWS) to be procured by Airbus, Spain from BEL for C295 Programme to be delivered to IAF . Kudos to efforts of team DLRL.
The state-of-the-art RWR system is capable of intercepting the radio emissions of Radar systems periodically by scanning across the frequency bands.
Ultra Violet based Missile Approach Warning System (UVMAWS) is a passive missile warning system which detects the incoming missile attacks and warns the pilots for initiating countermeasures.
Ultra violet missile approach warning system is a small sized high performance system with low power consumption and less weight, suitable for helicopters and transport aircrafts.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Giving to UN for a try is a goood idea

You can’t just give aircraft’s to the UN, just because they buy vehicles for their troops.
Aircraft are donated for a certain amount of time along with a full fledged maintenance and ground crew as well as flying crew. All this has to come from an Air Force or Air wing of a country

 

[Love Charger]

You can’t just give aircraft’s to the UN, just because they buy vehicles for their troops.
Aircraft are donated for a certain amount of time along with a full fledged maintenance and ground crew as well as flying crew.

I mocked indian airforce for being united nations airforce

 

[Chinmoy]

This is all your assumption. See every high end project that DRDO and ISRO carries out, they don't do it alone. They tie up with some of the leading educational institutions. And when it comes to hypersonic, only IIT Bombay, Madras, IIT Kanpur and IISc Bangalore are to be trusted. If you take the case of HSTDV, IIT Bombay and IIT Kanpur is involved. AVATAR is such a project that it's developments cannot be hidden completely. Even if they become successful in hiding that from public eye, no way they can hide it from the educational community. The truth is, IIT Kanpur carried out a different feasibility study (simulations basically) and submitted the report, and since then it is buried under the carpet. ISRO has plans for TSTO vehicles but that timeline is yet to come. These facts were reiterated in the VAIBHAV summit which was held virtually last year and I was present there...October 2020.

is it?

In how many summits you have heard about Operation Shakti (Anti-Sat) ?

Do you know the implications of making public such a dual use tech? Satellite manufacturing tech sharing or launch is not a prohibotory act, but why sharing of rocket engine tech is a prohibitory action?

Attending such summits are good for knowledge gaining on technology, but no one is going to discuss all the projects undertaken by an agency or its peer in such summits. Govt would steer clear off about any such project existense. Even the Chinese tech paper you shared starts off with civilian use of the precooled engine.

Another bubble is about involvement of Indian educational institutes in such projects. No educational institutes directly gets involved in such projects. They get incubated to develop only part of technology and all the time there are dual use aspect associated with their study. They could only speculate about its use. But after development even they would not know where it has been used. So please forget that these things would come out in public only because educational institutes are involved in it.

 

[mokoman]

looks like simple object tracking , you can already find free libraries that do this online.

 

[BrigadierRPS]

Please don't talk about something you don't know. Firstly, the summit was on some predefined topics and groups were formed subsequently. Aerospace propulsion was a such topic hence these things came up. ASAT was not a topic there. Educational institutions are involved in some very crucial projects. You are talking about dual use technology, the pre-cooled engine is dual use tech as well. Anything that involves ISRO has to be either dual use or civilian, so by your logic there should not be any difficulty from their side to take IITs onboard. IIT Kanpur is directly involved into Ghatak program, I can show you research undertaken related to it. It is not something that the professor and his research unit does something but doesn't know it's use. No development is truly secret. People openly talk about the RAM of AMCA and it's absorption capabilities (which should be a very secret technology and nobody should ideally talk about). You might not know that a supersonic dogfight capable UCAV is being designed to operate along with AMCA, but we know it. Because there are some walls between the civilian sphere and the technology sphere (where every unit interacts with the other one).

is it?

In how many summits you have heard about Operation Shakti (Anti-Sat) ?

Do you know the implications of making public such a dual use tech? Satellite manufacturing tech sharing or launch is not a prohibotory act, but why sharing of rocket engine tech is a prohibitory action?

Attending such summits are good for knowledge gaining on technology, but no one is going to discuss all the projects undertaken by an agency or its peer in such summits. Govt would steer clear off about any such project existense. Even the Chinese tech paper you shared starts off with civilian use of the precooled engine.

Another bubble is about involvement of Indian educational institutes in such projects. No educational institutes directly gets involved in such projects. They get incubated to develop only part of technology and all the time there are dual use aspect associated with their study. They could only speculate about its use. But after development even they would not know where it has been used. So please forget that these things would come out in public only because educational institutes are involved in it.

 

[BrigadierRPS]

They can do one thing..They can do trajectory tracking and prediction of the same using the tracking data, from there you can also speculate about the operating parameters of the drone.

looks like simple object tracking , you can already find free libraries that do this online.

 

[fire starter]

Please don't talk about something you don't know. Firstly, the summit was on some predefined topics and groups were formed subsequently. Aerospace propulsion was a such topic hence these things came up. ASAT was not a topic there. Educational institutions are involved in some very crucial projects. You are talking about dual use technology, the pre-cooled engine is dual use tech as well. Anything that involves ISRO has to be either dual use or civilian. IIT Kanpur is directly involved into Ghatak program, I can show you research undertaken related to it. It is not something that the professor and his research unit does something but doesn't know it's use. No development is truly secret. People openly talk about the RAM of AMCA and it's absorption capabilities (which should be a very secret technology and nobody should ideally talk about). You might not know that a supersonic dogfight capable UCAV is being designed to operate along with AMCA, but we know it. Because there are some walls between the civilian sphere and the technology sphere (where every unit interacts with the other one).

Can u shed some more light on amca Development especially its RAM Coating and that Super sonic dog fight UCAV.