DRDO Phalcon style AWACS

[Tridev123]

I don't think so , sirji.
Air India or jet must have got some recent inductions ( jet airways crashed due to massive fleet expansion )
Many planes were delivered which didn't even fly more than once or twice on commercial scale .

If the ex-Air India planes are relatively new then there should not be any problem.
Some people were talking of 10 to 12 years old planes being considered for the indigenous AWACS.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

If the ex-Air India planes are relatively new then there should not be any problem.
Some people were talking of 10 to 12 years old planes being considered for the indigenous AWACS.

Last time A320 was bought air India was called Indian Airlines. Should give you an idea when.it was bought.

New A320 in AI inventory are leases. If they are buying from Jet airways it's another matter altogether. But as of now it's from AI.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

I don't think so , sirji.
Air India or jet must have got some recent inductions ( jet airways crashed due to massive fleet expansion )
Many planes were delivered which didn't even fly more than once or twice on commercial scale .

Nope. Last time AI bought A320 was before 2006. It was called Indian airlines then. New additions are on lease.
If they are buying from Jet it's another news altogether.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

I don't disagree with your analysis.
I just feel the alternative is indeed... nothing, if we get into a process where we have to choose and buy new aircraft and let MoD into the loop.
And even if not ideal, any decent, even 15-year solution is essential as this is one technology where we cannot afford nothing.

My fear is these stupidity has resulted in high cost previously with less benefits than what could have been done with even 2 or 3 newer aircrafts.

 

[WolfPack86]

6 Air India A320s up for a $1.4 billion career change, to be transformed into early warning jets for the IAF

 

[Shekhar Singh]

Steal from Peter to pay Paul? What aircrafts are being "sold" to IAF? If they are selling it to IAF then it should have good air frame life remaining on the aircrafts. Atleast 10 years. It's not like Air India is in glittering situation. GoI needs to sell AI as well. Does the prospective buyers know this is going to happen?

This is going to end up costlier. By the time the 6th Ac is delivered the 1st life cycle is going to get over.

Not at all, use of aircraft as an AWACS will be less than 50% of Air India as passenger aircraft. So it will cross 20 years easily even if only 10 years life left.

 

[sorcerer]

Atmanibhar Bharat boost for India’s security: IAF to get Made in India AEW&C systems; Check details

Atmanibhar Bharat boost for India’s security: IAF to get Made in India AEW&C systems; Check details

The approval has been granted for the acquisition of the DRDO designed and developed AEW&C Systems for the Indian Air Force, Next Generation Offshore Patrol Vessels for the Indian Navy and Modular Bridges for the Indian Army.

www.financialexpress.com

 

[Chinmoy]

Nope. Last time AI bought A320 was before 2006. It was called Indian airlines then. New additions are on lease.
If they are buying from Jet it's another news altogether.

Point 1- Air India was never called Indian Airlines.
Point 2- Instead of A-320, its A-321 which would be modified.
Point 3- The first A-321 entered service with AI in June 2007.
Point 4- The planes which would be modified are inducted into service within Jan2008 to Nov2009.

 

[manindra]

Point 1- Air India was never called Indian Airlines.

He is referring to Indian Airlines which merged with Air India.
A-320 was purchased in Indian Airlines era.
Air India was/is majorly Boeing customer.

 

[Longewala]

Point 1- Air India was never called Indian Airlines.
Point 2- Instead of A-320, its A-321 which would be modified.
Point 3- The first A-321 entered service with AI in June 2007.
Point 4- The planes which would be modified are inducted into service within Jan2008 to Nov2009.

So about ten years of service, and I would assume sparsely used.
Versus typical lifetime of 25 years to 45 years with mid life refurbishment.

Ultimately, not ideal, but would get us sorted on the AWACS front upto 2040 at least.

6 + 3/5 Phalcon +2 Netra is a good mix

 

[Chinmoy]

He is referring to Indian Airlines which merged with Air India.
A-320 was purchased in Indian Airlines era.
Air India was/is majorly Boeing customer.

Wrong. A-321 were purchased by Air-India for domestic as well as international routes by Air-India. Merger happened in 2011. The first A-321 got acquired by Air-India in 2007 for international route. Indian Airlines was solely for domestic routes.

 

[Illusive]

This year has really woken up south-block and although not the ideal solutions, this'll do for the time being. Necessity is the mother of all jugaad.

 

[manindra]

Wrong. A-321 were purchased by Air-India for domestic as well as international routes by Air-India. Merger happened in 2011. The first A-321 got acquired by Air-India in 2007 for international route. Indian Airlines was solely for domestic routes.

I am referring to A-320s of former Indian Airlines Jets.
Even still not cleared yet that which jet is approved. May be be know that that when CCS give approval of it.

 

[abingdonboy]

If anyone is paying attention, my personal theory has been confirmed- the A320/319 plan is a separate effort to AWACS (I)


AWACS(I) is hence put on the back burner because pen pushers can’t stand the idea of ordering the A330 FTBs

 

[Wisemarko]

Love this news! Good job.

Should India buy new A320 or used ones?
Using ex-civilian narrow-body airframes is always better for AWACS. This is because the residual life of a narrow-body as an AWACS is much longer than as a civilian aircraft.

The reason is straightforward. An airframe life is counted by number of takeoff and landings (called pressurization cycle) and not by the age of the airframe.

Each time an aircraft is pressurized during flight, its fuselage and wings are stressed. Both are made of large, plate-like parts connected with fasteners and rivets, and over time, cracks develop around the fastener holes due to metal fatigue.

Therefore, aircraft manufacturers set limit on these cycles. For instance, original A320 had limit of 60,000 pressurization cycles.

Thus, A320 is made for a 25-year design service goal based on an assumption that each cycle (flight) would be 1.25h long.

But long haul flights (A320 can fly for up to 9 hours in AWACS configuration) will result in much longer lifespan: Decades longer.

So kudos to Indian planners for finally showing some urgency and practicality. (PAF SAAB Erieye are also mounted on used S-2000 airliners)

I am not sure what to make of claims of dorsal plank fairing (like Erieye) on A320 for Indian AWACS.

In 2018, Airbus and SAAB teamed up to offer combination of A320 and Erieye to United Kingdom for its AWACS requirement. They lost to Boeing Wedgetail but preliminary work on design was done.

Therefore, the most logical and fastest way forward for IAF would be to install Indian radar in this configuration. Radome option is drag inducing and will likely require extensive testing.

 

[abingdonboy]

Love this news! Good job.

Should India buy new A320 or used ones?
Using ex-civilian narrow-body airframes is always better for AWACS. This is because the residual life of a narrow-body as an AWACS is much longer than as a civilian aircraft.

The reason is straightforward. An airframe life is counted by number of takeoff and landings (called pressurization cycle) and not by the age of the airframe.

Each time an aircraft is pressurized during flight, its fuselage and wings are stressed. Both are made of large, plate-like parts connected with fasteners and rivets, and over time, cracks develop around the fastener holes due to metal fatigue.

Therefore, aircraft manufacturers set limit on these cycles. For instance, original A320 had limit of 60,000 pressurization cycles.

Thus, A320 is made for a 25-year design service goal based on an assumption that each cycle (flight) would be 1.25h long.

But long haul flights (A320 can fly for up to 9 hours in AWACS configuration) will result in much longer lifespan: Decades longer.

So kudos to Indian planners for finally showing some urgency and practicality. (PAF SAAB Erieye are also mounted on used S-2000 airliners)

I am not sure what to make of claims of dorsal plank fairing (like Erieye) on A320 for Indian AWACS.

In 2018, Airbus and SAAB teamed up to offer combination of A320 and Erieye to United Kingdom for its AWACS requirement. They lost to Boeing Wedgetail but preliminary work on design was done.

Therefore, the most logical and fastest way forward for IAF would be to install Indian radar in this configuration. Radome option is drag inducing and will likely require extensive testing.

Huh? It will be a dorsal fin configuration for the A320/319

 

[Wisemarko]

Huh? It will be a dorsal fin configuration for the A320/319

Huh? And your point is?

 

[Narasimh]

 

[ObiWanKenobi]

16:30 is the only thing I was interested.

V K Saraswat is 100% certain at will be higher coverage than existing 270 degrees. The range should be roughly equivalent to civilian A330s - should be similar to A320NEO based business jets that exceed 10,000km. And MUCH cheaper to operate.

I think this is the ideal platform. I'm pretty certain it will have a front facing radar either in the nose or the pod below the front fuselage. Rearward coverage doesn't matter that much.

 

[DEV1729]

How about this new brazilian c390 awacs.Cost is also nominal 50 million dollars per plane