DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[Bajirao]

The SMART missile is a version of Shaurya which itself is a K-15 variant.

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This approach is similar to the one adopted for Astra bvraam. The same airframe had bee
n enlarged and repurposed is used as NGARM . A variant is also used as Qrsam.

How can?? This is supersonic.....shourya is a hypersonic....it is the same model we saw in the lab,which we assumed rudram2..look at the rear section..

 

[vishnugupt]

Meteor was designed by European consortium for European platforms which includes Typhoon, Gripen, Rafale. Even the in service F-16's were not integrated with it. So does this mean Meteor is immature?

For a one sided mind, it might seem a immature system. But I look into the sub components parts of a system and in there, it is one of the most MATURED missile system.

Could we say same for Astra? Most of its test were carried out with Russian seekers, which BTW according to you is SHIT.




Yes. Developers matters. Especially when they have decades of experience behind them in designing and development. Their product like Meteor has gained on the experience of AA series, 530 series, Mica, Skyflash, ASRAAM. Could DRDO put such experience behind Astra?



Scientist Pilot term is used because you used the same in an early post.

Now on your point of what they could do that the development team can't. User when gives specifications for developments, they give a general spec as about the range required and operational altitude. Based on that a product is designed and developed. BVR starts from 30 km onwards. Now DRDO designed a missile for 110 km, its their credit. They developed and got the seeker accepted by user, again their credit.

Now user has to carry on trials of the system before certifying the product which they did and further placed limited orders of the same. Now if you ask that what more user have to do, well they have to open up the performance envelope of the system. How?

Well, Astra has been designed to engage a target head on at 110 km at 30k feet. What about its engagement range at 10k feet?
What would be the rules of engagement for a pilot to engage a target at 10k feet while flying at 20 or say 15k feet or vice versa?
Who would say or teach these to pilots? DRDO?

You believe they would come and say, "Ok boys, if you detect a target flying 1k feet below you, you have to come down to same altitude before releasing missile or you should release missile at X minimum range". Do you think it happens like this?
Who according to you would be making these charts?

Even in case of M777, IA did made firing charts with limited numbers before going for induction of the whole lot.

You got any more Rajdeep like questions?

Originally, you said ,Astra is immature missile??
But your replies is only indicating how IAF is immature. You are not sure about any parameter which could prove "why Astra is a immature missile" but you are throwing random illogical argument in hope sometime will fall in place.
I never said Russian seeker is a shit.
All fantastical trials you are mentioning could have done during user trials or in subsequent year.

All you need is to read your own replies then you will understand how far you have come to justify your own wrong statment. You could have said, IAF need to optimise Astra for better use rather than calling Astra immature.

All you are saying" DRDO is not following your master's foot steps Hence, failed/immature product.

 

[Vicky7622]

FIRST QUESTION IS WHETHER DO INDIA OR ANYBODY IN THE WORLD HAS A SENSOR THAT CAN DETECT A SUBMARINE 650 KM AWAY, SECOND WILL IT THEN BE ABLE TO LOCK O TO THAT SIGNAL THIRD AT WAHT DEPTH WILL IT BE ABLE TO HIT IT , 650 KM RANGE IS MERE RANGE OF A ROCKET WHICH IS NOT THAT USEFUL IN ANTI SUBMARINE WARFARE

 

[Vicky7622]

I WOULD RATHER BE HAPPY TO SEE IT IN ANTI BALLISTIC, ANTI AIR OR ANTI RADIATION MODE

 

[Suryavanshi]

FIRST QUESTION IS WHETHER DO INDIA OR ANYBODY IN THE WORLD HAS A SENSOR THAT CAN DETECT A SUBMARINE 650 KM AWAY, SECOND WILL IT THEN BE ABLE TO LOCK O TO THAT SIGNAL THIRD AT WAHT DEPTH WILL IT BE ABLE TO HIT IT , 650 KM RANGE IS MERE RANGE OF A ROCKET WHICH IS NOT THAT USEFUL IN ANTI SUBMARINE WARFARE

Calm down on the all caps mate.

I think you are misconceptualizing something, the method of operation is not the same as Radar.
A ship from stand off distance of about 650 km or less will detect sumbarines through P8i, ASW heli, sunboys or any method of detection than they can engage the submarine from that distance.

Most submarine have a diving depth of 650 m average and a max of 800m. SMART has a diving depth of 600 m if I am not wrong. Most torpedo don't have a range of more than 50 km so a launch platform can maintain a safe distance from the submarine.

 

[Willy3]

We all discuss about malakka gap and how can we defend it.

But how do we will defend the intrusion of Chinese Subs if they came from open ocean, south of Australia, bypassing island chain of Indo-Pacific ?

Is this new missile developed taking that in mind ?
Will there be ship launch version of this missile in Komarta type heavy corvette ?

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

The acoustic signature of Chinsese submarines are known to IN. Also, Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD) on board P-8i ASW aircraft can pick-up submarine movement in high seas.

There are four systems including ‘Abhay - compact hull mounted sonar for shallow water crafts; Humsa UG - upgrade for the Humsa sonar system’; ‘NACS - Near-field Acoustic Characterisation System’ and ‘AIDSS - Advanced Indigenous Distress sonar system’ for submarines. The systems have been designed and developed by NPOL, a Kochi-based laboratory of DRDO.
Source: http://www.spsnavalforces.com/story/?id=637&h=Anti-submarine-Warfare

Also, a network of sea bed sensors are placed along the Indian Ocean and Bay of Bengal region.

 

[Tanmay]

We all discuss about malakka gap and how can we defend it.

But how do we will defend the intrusion of Chinese Subs if they came from open ocean, south of Australia, bypassing island chain of Indo-Pacific ?

Is this new missile developed taking that in mind ?
Will there be ship launch version of this missile in Komarta type heavy corvette ?

If they decide not to take these straits (Malacca, Sunda, Lombok) and want to circumambulate Australia, they probably need to cover 20,000 kilometers. And that route seems to be amongst the most desolate stretches.

And still be under watch by Australian ASW planes.

 

[Bajirao]

FIRST QUESTION IS WHETHER DO INDIA OR ANYBODY IN THE WORLD HAS A SENSOR THAT CAN DETECT A SUBMARINE 650 KM AWAY, SECOND WILL IT THEN BE ABLE TO LOCK O TO THAT SIGNAL THIRD AT WAHT DEPTH WILL IT BE ABLE TO HIT IT , 650 KM RANGE IS MERE RANGE OF A ROCKET WHICH IS NOT THAT USEFUL IN ANTI SUBMARINE WARFARE

One way is by Using big amount of unmanned underwater vehicle

 

[no smoking]

The acoustic signature of Chinese submarines are known to IN.

Really? You have to know that acoustic signature is not fixed, it changes along with temperature, depth, salt, mechanic status, etc, etc. In order to get a certain type submarine's signature, you have to do the following:

1. the capability to follow the submarine through the whole journey;
2. during the journey, keep yourselves close enough to pick continue record of acoustic signature;
3. Get enough number of anti-submarine platforms to track your enemy's submarine activities through the whole year and keep doing so for years.
4. Have a precise ocean bottom map over the territories where your enemy's submarines patrol.

Also, Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD) on board P-8i ASW aircraft can pick-up submarine movement in high seas.

Unless you have a huge anti-submarine network of US which can track the submarine from South China Sea, to pick up a submarine in the most busiest trait (273 ships per day) in the world? You need 2 things:

1. Magic;
2. Luck.

 

[johnq]

Don't worry, the US is sharing all intelligence with India, including acoustic signatures. The quad is forming now, so if Chinese military tries anything in any region, it will be facing enemies from multiple directions. Also, Chinese submarines are noisy as hell.

 

[Vicky7622]

Calm down on the all caps mate.

I think you are misconceptualizing something, the method of operation is not the same as Radar.
A ship from stand off distance of about 650 km or less will detect sumbarines through P8i, ASW heli, sunboys or any method of detection than they can engage the submarine from that distance.

Most submarine have a diving depth of 650 m average and a max of 800m. SMART has a diving depth of 600 m if I am not wrong. Most torpedo don't have a range of more than 50 km so a launch platform can maintain a safe distance from the submarine.

Distance of horizon from the height of everest is about 360km so P8i line of sight cannot send transmission beyond that if you considering SATCOM then we need a satellite that is hovering above at that particular time, so are we going to wait for the bird to come overhead to start our hunt, I think not. now the diving depth of 600m cannot be achieved by the torpedo fired from 650km away because changing salinity of the sea makes it very difficult for any submarine to be detected at that depth even by sonabuoys. it was just test to check how far a light torpedo an be thrown with the help of a rocket. it will take lot of tech challenges to be overcome before it becomes an actual weapon

 

[Shaitan]

Gotta give credit to DRDO, they have not been slacking even with the COVID. CLGM, Shaurya, SMART, News of another new project trialing soon - 125mm tank launched ATGMs, etc. Great job.

 

[Dessert Storm]

Really? You have to know that acoustic signature is not fixed, it changes along with temperature, depth, salt, mechanic status, etc, etc. In order to get a certain type submarine's signature, you have to do the following:

1. the capability to follow the submarine through the whole journey;
2. during the journey, keep yourselves close enough to pick continue record of acoustic signature;
3. Get enough number of anti-submarine platforms to track your enemy's submarine activities through the whole year and keep doing so for years.
4. Have a precise ocean bottom map over the territories where your enemy's submarines patrol.



Unless you have a huge anti-submarine network of US which can track the submarine from South China Sea, to pick up a submarine in the most busiest trait (273 ships per day) in the world? You need 2 things:

1. Magic;
2. Luck.

You forgot COMCASA.

 

[Desi Aam]

So...seems like with the SMART missile we have completed the Sensor to Shooter capability that IN was vying for for quite a while.

A SoSus type picket fence in the Indian Ocean....that is a massive force multiplier...!!

Link to the article and DFI discussion on the same given below ;

India’s “Undersea Wall” in the Eastern Indian Ocean | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative

Surveillance technology could be leveraged to protect India’s exclusive economic zone

amti.csis.org

Does India Want an 'Undersea Wall' to Detect Chinese Submarines?

I'm not writing the article in Quotes this time for ease of read because it's too long. This article is a publication of National Interest with all right Reserved. :) Does India Want an 'Undersea Wall' to Detect Chinese Submarines? Is India planning to install undersea surveillance sensors in...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[Karthi]

The SMART missile is a version of Shaurya which itself is a K-15 variant.

View attachment 61603





This approach is similar to the one adopted for Astra bvraam. The same airframe had bee
n enlarged and repurposed is used as NGARM . A variant is also used as Qrsam.

How did you concluded SMART is from Shaurya , the Missile doesn't look

Distance of horizon from the height of everest is about 360km so P8i line of sight cannot send transmission beyond that if you considering SATCOM then we need a satellite that is hovering above at that particular time, so are we going to wait for the bird to come overhead to start our hunt, I think not. now the diving depth of 600m cannot be achieved by the torpedo fired from 650km away because changing salinity of the sea makes it very difficult for any submarine to be detected at that depth even by sonabuoys. it was just test to check how far a light torpedo an be thrown with the help of a rocket. it will take lot of tech challenges to be overcome before it becomes an actual weapon

There is a lot of research going on in the background , they study about the , salinity , temperature and surveying the ocean frequently , those data's are available for Navy .

Why Super Sonic Missile Assisted Release of Torpedoe (SMART) will be a good platform for India.

Through SMART India will get long range ASW capability. Range of SMART is advertised as 650 Km but there are all the possibility that the range is even more. With other ASW platforms , like Kamorta Class Corvettes, P8I Poseidon , Underdevelopment ASW shallow water craft , Unmanned Underwater Vehicles and the most important Underwater surveillance system of Indian Navy will enable Indian Navy to target and destroy Chinese Submarines at long ranges.

India’s underwater wall is connected with US and Japanese SOSUS Underwater network. This will give India an ear warning of approaching Chinese subs even ling before it enters Indian ocean.

Indian Underwater wall might detect and triangulate an SSK diesel engine even if the submarine is 1000Km away in the Indian Ocean. As the submarines gets closer to SOSUS array many additional submarines sounds can be discerned eg SSN reactor water/steam circulation, generator gearing-electrical motor sounds from SSNs and SSKs, dropped tools and water swishing over the hull sounds. Cavitations sounds might be picked up from Chinese SSNs over 15 knots submerged cruising speeds and SSKs over 5 knots submerged cursing. Within 100km the diesel sounds of an SSK might reveal an individual SSK even identifying as SSK known to be captioned by a particular commander (may be judged by his maneuvering habits). Identification of submarine Type or actual submarine is much easier if there are already recordings of the submarines sound on an Indian super computer data base (Library).

So after the detection of Chinese Submarines it only need to press the launch button of SMART for welcoming Chinese subs . If we deploy SMART in Andaman India can takeout Chinese sub way before it entering Indian ocean.

 

[NeXoft007]

Nah bruh. I still don't know how Rudra M2 looks like, but one thing for certain is Rudra M2 weighs only 700kg. SMART vehicle on the other hand is several times heavier. Maybe that wind tunnel missile is a SMART model itself, not Rudra M2.

 

[Tuco]

Nah bruh. I still don't know how Rudra M2 looks like, but one thing for certain is Rudra M2 weighs only 700kg. SMART vehicle on the other hand is several times heavier. Maybe that wind tunnel missile is a SMART model itself, not Rudra M2.

All know it's air to surface, but what are its roles and why such secrecy . What's special about it, is it similar c-400akg or something else.

 

[Karthi]

SMART

View attachment 61674

SMART

View attachment 61674

Not glider may be parachutes

 

[porky_kicker]

When I said based on RUDRAM family especially RUDRAM-2 what does it ( did I ) mean ?

I meant design configuration ( as required ) and technology ( as required ) was derived from RUDRAM family and " scaled up " as required for SMART.

Does it mean taking a portion of RUDRAM-2 ( or whole ) and using it for SMART ? No