Do you think that Taiwan and India can become real allies? Why or why not?

Do you think Taiwan and India can become real allies?


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rockdog

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Why do you think so? I was trying to convey that the PRC and ROC are extremely different governments in their outlooks, and thus would have had substantially different domestic and foreign policies. Well, that is the official stance, yes. But partly that is only because to renounce them would mean to send to Beijing a message that it was pursuing a truly separate identity -- and that Taiwan was nearing its declaration of full independence from the mainland. And that alone would dangerously increase tensions in the Taiwan strait.

And besides, as I stated, most Taiwanese don't really care about these old territory disputes, or even if they did, it still would not affect their views of those countries, or cause them to side with China against them. For example, the Diaoyutai dispute with the Japanese - they were able to sign a fisheries agreement years ago, and Japan remains Taiwan's favorite country regardless. Even the most nationalist pro-KMT members are not likely to support a war with either Japan or Mongolia.

ROC‘s official map is still this right?

lq.jpg


I was a big fan of ROC‘s 蒙藏委员会 (Tibet - Mongolia committee),it claims almost all the things PRC dosen't claim. At this point, ROC is quite cute, it's "地图开疆,日记强国"

Beginning in 1994, the Chinese sold 5,000 ring magnets, used in gas centrifuges for enriching uranium, to the laboratory of the infamous Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan. Beijing also appears to have provided nuclear test data, more modern warhead designs, and plutonium technology for which there are no peaceful uses. China may even have tested a Pakistani device on its soil. Chinese help was crucial, extensive, and continuous. “If you subtract Chinese assistance from the Pakistani nuclear weapons program, there is no program,” says Gary Milhollin of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control.
I respect 蒋经国 Chiang Ching-kuo, thought he is respectful. But when he faced Papa US, he became a lapdog ...

The man who helped prevent a nuclear crisis

 

MilkTeaAlliance32

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ROC‘s official map is still this right?

View attachment 158469

I was a big fan of ROC‘s 蒙藏委员会 (Tibet - Mongolia committee),it claims almost all the things PRC dosen't claim. At this point, ROC is quite cute, it's "地图开疆,日记强国"



I respect 蒋经国 Chiang Ching-kuo, thought he is respectful. But when he faced Papa US, he became a lapdog ...

The man who helped prevent a nuclear crisis

No one except very old and aging KMT members cares very much about that...Mongolia for example is barely on the radar for most Taiwanese people.

For example, most Taiwanese people would easily side with Japan over China, island dispute or not. :)
 

rockdog

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No one except very old and aging KMT members cares very much about that...Mongolia for example is barely on the radar for most Taiwanese people.

For example, most Taiwanese people would easily side with Japan over China, island dispute or not. :)
It's all about education during peace time.

Just like 99% of mainland Chinese think Taiwan is part of PRC, because they were born to be told so.

Same as Taiwanese, they were told to dislike PRC from very beginning.

I personally think the only way to change the situation is the war, just like at the beginning of Japan' ruling after 1894, the ressistatnce was tough, but after 20 years, some Taiwanese even devoted to die for Japanese army ...

I don't wanna see the war between the PRC and ROC, but seems war is quite possible.
 

Sarjen

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Taiwan is only getting close to India because China is heating up the borders.

Taiwan has similar claims on Indian territories are China has today. They even want more of our land than Mainland China hold currently.

Unless you let go of the claims genuinely I don't see point into having more co-operation.
bs old news, they no longer claim as mainland, want separate ways, freedom and have only the island to themselves. these kind of non sense is used by foolish diplomats most likely the corrupts ones
 

no smoking

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bs old news, they no longer claim as mainland, want separate ways, freedom and have only the island to themselves. these kind of non sense is used by foolish diplomats most likely the corrupts ones
No, they do! The claims are still sitting in their constitution.
Yes, currently, in order to keep themselves out of Mainland's hands, their politicians can claim that they only want their island to themselves. If the power balance between 2 sides change tomorrow, don't be surprised that they switch their stance.
 

karn

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No, they do! The claims are still sitting in their constitution.
Yes, currently, in order to keep themselves out of Mainland's hands, their politicians can claim that they only want their island to themselves. If the power balance between 2 sides change tomorrow, don't be surprised that they switch their stance.
Yeah but ..relationships between countries are on the basis of capabilities and not intentions . If PRC had no capability to threaten India relations between the 2 would be good .. so it is rather irrelevant to India what Taiwan's intentions are regarding that map.
If the ROC overthrows the PRC they will inherit all of the PRCs geopolitical issues .. including the border dispute with us .. but why should we (Indians) worry about this unlikely scenario now.
 

SKC

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bs old news, they no longer claim as mainland, want separate ways, freedom and have only the island to themselves. these kind of non sense is used by foolish diplomats most likely the corrupts ones
Dude keep on believing this. If they somehow magically able to takeover mainland china they will become the new CCP.

Chiang Kai-Shek was no saint. He was equally bad as Mao. He was ruthless dictator too. Just because they ran off to Taiwan does not means they will go off all the territorial claims of China.
 
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shade

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Dude keep on believing this. If they somehow magically able to takeover mainland china they will become the new CCP.

Chiang Kai-Shek was no saint. He was equally bad as Mao. He was ruthless dictator too. Just because they ran off to Taiwan does not means they will go off all the territorial claims of China.
Good people realize this.
It's Chinese nationalism in the end no matter whatever ideological wrapper it comes in.
But thanks to Uncle Sam, the Cat Lady Prez is a symptom of the islanders getting pozzed ideologically.
So no chance of them on the mainland, there is a narrative being set for Taiwanese independence also.

Taiwan is only an ally in the economic or technological sense.
We don't have any allies in the military sense.
 

Rassil Krishnan

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I want to try to explain the difference between the PRC and the ROC. Some Indians might think, hey, they both claim such vast lands, they're just as bad and imperialistic as each other, same difference. No, there actually IS a difference. If you listen to the two anthems...you'd notice this right away. The PRC anthem calls for millions of people to rise up and build a new "Great Wall" made of fresh blood. The ROC anthem is calmer, more relaxed and dignified, simply calling for the Three Principles of the People to be implemented.



The PRC is about tearing down all of the existing system through force, the ROC I think rather strives to improve and reform it. There was a Taiwanese person who once said something like, "Communism is like a beautiful and enticing woman with a deadly disease that cannot easily be noticed -- until it is too late."

I won't go into Taiwanese identity itself today, that is too complicated. But I would argue that the ROC represents the "real" China, or at least, what China was supposed or meant to become -- the spiritual China, I guess, you could call it -- a China in which liberty for everyone, all citizens treated equally, was the highest ideal, not any kind of bloody or international socialist revolution of any kind.

While Communism hates tradition and religion, the ROC honors and cherishes the traditional Chinese culture of the past (Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism, etc.) Even in Taiwan today, you can find hundreds and hundreds of Buddhist sects, and the people are among the most deeply devout practictioners in Asia. Even the popular mainland system of Chinese writing is a diluted and extremely "simplified" form that was made less than a century ago. That is one major and serious difference between the two sides - the PRC is secular and materialistic, with most party members officially atheist, while the ROC is more spiritual and religious (even many of its leaders and officials were deeply religious people who prayed every day to the Buddha, to God, etc.) Sun Yat-sen himself was a devout Christian, for example, and lots of other ROC leaders were either Christian or Buddhist.

So even in a worst case scenario had the ROC defeated the Communists and moved on Tibet or the other border regions -- I think they would have treated them much, much better. Religion at least would not be regarded as something akin to an outdated drug as Mao regarded it, and they would understand the meaning of honoring ancient tradition like the Tibetans do to this day, and done their best to preserve their monasteries and their customs and institutions -- think of for example, USA with Germany or Japan after the war.

Another major difference is that mainland China / PRC is very collectivist, while Taiwan (ROC) is very individualistic.

For example, if China theoretically attacked Japan tomorrow, the vast majority of mainlanders would probably cheer the attack, or at least not oppose it, or shrug and go along with the government's decision, because that was they are used to by now. But if Taiwan's government suddenly declared war on Japan, most people would be rioting angrily in the streets, waving signs like, "The government are traitors and warmongers, take them out!" and things like that, and some might even try to break into the the government buildings. In Taiwan, the people do not necessarily accept the government's official stances on this or that, or even go against them freely, as individuals. Most Taiwanese people still regard Japan as their "favorite country", even with the dispute. :)
You are highlighting key weaknesses of the Taiwanese gov as things to follow for us Indians when we here want a strong and ruthless gov that will impose our civilization's footprint without hesitation.

Being indecisive is not a quality I want MY Bharat to be.

Not am I enamoured by spiritualism.I am attracted by power and capabilities and peace through power.

India needs to be powerful to transform some cancerous Sections of people within it to something useful and productive.in that respects china is the useful model as they have successfully transformed all nasty religions to its will.

Taiwan does not know the burden of having a large poor population and million s of peacefuls.
 
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rockdog

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Chiang Kai-Shek was no saint. He was equally bad as Mao. He was ruthless dictator too. Just because they ran off to Taiwan does not means they will go off all the territorial claims of China.
Yes, Chiang Kai-Shek is typical oriental dictator as Mao, but with less capable than Mao. At least, Mao had balls to kick US army out of buffer zone like N.Korea. Chiang Kai-Shek and KMT signed lots of treaties with USA to sell China's intrests just after WWII.
 

SKC

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Yes, Chiang Kai-Shek is typical oriental dictator as Mao, but with less capable than Mao. At least, Mao had balls to kick US army out of buffer zone like N.Korea. Chiang Kai-Shek and KMT signed lots of treaties with USA to sell China's intrests just after WWII.
If CKS was in power then he would have also done the same to the US troops in NK. The human wave just overpowered the forces in NK.
Though the kill ration was overtly in favor of US but there so much that US could do at that time after coming from loss of lives in WW2.
 

SKC

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Why do you think so? I was trying to convey that the PRC and ROC are extremely different governments in their outlooks, and thus would have had substantially different domestic and foreign policies. Well, that is the official stance, yes. But partly that is only because to renounce them would mean to send to Beijing a message that it was pursuing a truly separate identity -- and that Taiwan was nearing its declaration of full independence from the mainland. And that alone would dangerously increase tensions in the Taiwan strait.

And besides, as I stated, most Taiwanese don't really care about these old territory disputes, or even if they did, it still would not affect their views of those countries, or cause them to side with China against them. For example, the Diaoyutai dispute with the Japanese - they were able to sign a fisheries agreement years ago, and Japan remains Taiwan's favorite country regardless. Even the most nationalist pro-KMT members are not likely to support a war with either Japan or Mongolia.

Beginning in 1994, the Chinese sold 5,000 ring magnets, used in gas centrifuges for enriching uranium, to the laboratory of the infamous Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan. Beijing also appears to have provided nuclear test data, more modern warhead designs, and plutonium technology for which there are no peaceful uses. China may even have tested a Pakistani device on its soil. Chinese help was crucial, extensive, and continuous. “If you subtract Chinese assistance from the Pakistani nuclear weapons program, there is no program,” says Gary Milhollin of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control.

The PRC gave Pakistan its nuclear arsenal, and also helped North Korea with its missile program, the ROC probably would not have done so. That alone is a major difference between the two governments. I think if the ROC had won the war, relations in Asia would have been much better than they are today.
Why i say so is because I have worked with both People from Taiwan and people from China and I have worked and lived inside China.

One of my buddy from my masters time got his PhD from National university in Taiwan and he taught there for 2 years and later joined Shanghai's Shanghai Jiao Tong University. He is there since 2019 now.
He has Taiwanese partner and I have interacted with her too.

I know what they feel and thinks. They move between Taiwan and Chinese mainland freely. Part from fact that they have different govt, on whole their thinking about Chinese borders and relation with outside world is almost indistinguishable.
 

Sarjen

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Dude keep on believing this. If they somehow magically able to takeover mainland china they will become the new CCP.

Chiang Kai-Shek was no saint. He was equally bad as Mao. He was ruthless dictator too. Just because they ran off to Taiwan does not means they will go off all the territorial claims of China.
time changes which you refuse to get it, no one is taking over china and ccp is here to stay.... but for sure we don't even know if in 5-10 years Taiwan as a Democracy would exist.
 

SKC

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time changes which you refuse to get it, no one is taking over china and ccp is here to stay.... but for sure we don't even know if in 5-10 years Taiwan as a Democracy would exist.
We know, we are talking about the hypothetical scenarios.
 

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