Do you think that Taiwan and India can become real allies? Why or why not?

Do you think Taiwan and India can become real allies?


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MilkTeaAlliance32

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i am of the opinion that, as of today chances are not good for taiwan. hence my earlier question, how prepared is taiwan to hold off PLA and militias for a month or two.

There are zero indications that US will put boots on the ground in taiwan (atleast publicly), "US military advisors" may come and help a bit like they are doing in ukraine, but most of the leg work will have to be done by taiwanese themselves.
Okay, to finish up some last thoughts from my previous post --

While India's young generation, from what I can tell, is also becoming much more nationalist and patriotic, and anti-China, while voting for Modi, China's young generation is also becoming more nationalist and pro-China. And their relations seem to be worsening over the past decade (the border dispute is still unresolved after the last several rounds of talks). And even if it is resolved, I doubt China will just abandon Pakistan afterwards and become best friends with India, regardless, there is too much history between all three countries. Both are Asian superpowers and the strongest economies / militaries in the continent, I don't know if this trend continues, what will happen years from now.

Most "ordinary" Taiwanese people who are not aging fossils are very, very strongly opposed to embracing Chinese identity, even the passport was changed very recently to distance itself from mainland China while traveling abroad.


And who can blame such views, honestly?? China is hated by most democratic countries today.

In short:
Taiwan's next generation: Increasingly pro-independence, anti-China
India's next generation: Increasingly pro-Modi, anti-China
China's next generation: Increasingly pro-China, anti-America, and anti-Taiwan and anti-India.


And here are some views from the current mainland Chinese people, India is their second most-hated country in the world.


Chinese Views of Other Countries.png


I think the ROC military would try to fortify itself and prevent the PLA troops from landing on the shores as best it could. I'll try to expand more on this later.
 
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Rassil Krishnan

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Think realistically. Become one with China.
Domt bring india Pakistan analogy here , its radically different situation.
Yeah ,I don't know why they bring up the india-pakistan comparison here with China-Taiwan or North Korea-South Korea.

in those other two cases there is some possibility of unity and merging one way or the other as the ideology and mannerisms and culture of the people are quite similar and with some work they can be assimilated.

Even with tension high between them and remaining so in the near future(10 years) they still will have a lot in common.

I think East asians have a lower degree for tolerance of differences because there is such differences between India.Even the Japanese and south Koreans have issues and these are two developed countries with more than 70-80 years between any kind of hostilities.

In the case of India-Pakistan,the commonality is just a meme that some people with agendas want to perpetuate and also some idiots believe in it.

The dreams and motivations of Indians and pakistanis are very different and we definitely wont tolerate them.
 

ezsasa

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Yeah ,I don't know why they bring up the india-pakistan comparison here with China-Taiwan or North Korea-South Korea.

in those other two cases there is some possibility of unity and merging one way or the other as the ideology and mannerisms and culture of the people are quite similar and with some work they can be assimilated.

Even with tension high between them and remaining so in the near future(10 years) they still will have a lot in common.

I think East asians have a lower degree for tolerance of differences because there is such differences between India.Even the Japanese and south Koreans have issues and these are two developed countries with more than 70-80 years between any kind of hostilities.

In the case of India-Pakistan,the commonality is just a meme that some people with agendas want to perpetuate and also some idiots believe in it.

The dreams and motivations of Indians and pakistanis are very different and we definitely wont tolerate them.
Yes, India pakistan situation has little correlation with their situation. ours are active fronts, theirs are passive fronts. blood is spilled almost every week on our borders, i am guessing SK/JP/TW folks will go into hyper ventilation when it happens in their case.
 

MilkTeaAlliance32

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Yes, India pakistan situation has little correlation with their situation. ours are active fronts, theirs are passive fronts. blood is spilled almost every week on our borders, i am guessing SK/JP/TW folks will go into hyper ventilation when it happens in their case.
The India-Pakistani standoff seems to be most comparable with the Korean situation, with North Korea and South Korea occasionally bothering each other, but notably unable to gain much territory from the other. Basically, to be honest, it is a fairly static situation, even if it does make the peoples hate each other more.

But it IS different from China and Taiwan's situation -- because there is a much stronger likelihood of China taking over Taiwan if they really tried to. Let's be realistic -- the PLA is the world's largest army, and even America would have a hard time fighting them directly if war really broke out, let alone Taiwan, South Korea and Japan together.
 

Sanglamorre

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The India-Pakistani standoff seems to be most comparable with the Korean situation, with North Korea and South Korea occasionally bothering each other, but notably unable to gain much territory from the other. Basically, to be honest, it is a fairly static situation, even if it does make the peoples hate each other more.

But it IS different from China and Taiwan's situation -- because there is a much stronger likelihood of China taking over Taiwan if they really tried to. Let's be realistic -- the PLA is the world's largest army, and even America would have a hard time fighting them directly if war really broke out, let alone Taiwan, South Korea and Japan together.
No, South Koreans will go into National catatonic meltdowns if they had to face active conflicts like India-Pakistan does. You guys haven't yet lost your people where the enemy cut off heads and took them as trophies. You guys didn't have to drag bodies of both comrades and enemies via cars incase any booby traps are set up. Some airplanes violating airspace isn't the same as facing shelling, terror attacks on a daily basis.
 

Love Charger

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The India-Pakistani standoff seems to be most comparable with the Korean situation, with North Korea and South Korea occasionally bothering each other, but notably unable to gain much territory from the other. Basically, to be honest, it is a fairly static situation, even if it does make the peoples hate each other more.

But it IS different from China and Taiwan's situation -- because there is a much stronger likelihood of China taking over Taiwan if they really tried to. Let's be realistic -- the PLA is the world's largest army, and even America would have a hard time fighting them directly if war really broke out, let alone Taiwan, South Korea and Japan together.
Buddy, North Korea is a teddy bear in front of Pakistan.
For that matter. You don't know what we face and how we feel.
Its better if you keep your discussions to Taiwan , don't patronise us on india pak issues
 

MilkTeaAlliance32

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Buddy, North Korea is a teddy bear in front of Pakistan.
For that matter. You don't know what we face and how we feel.
Its better if you keep your discussions to Taiwan , don't patronise us on india pak issues
Of course, I only meant that India is stronger than Pakistan and faces no realistic threat to its existence from Pakistan or Bangladesh or Sri Lanka, etc.

But Taiwan faces an existential threat by China every day. In other words, if China's leaders go crazy and try use the nuclear option against Taiwan, the the ROC government is honestly doomed -- and 2.6 million are clustered in Taipei alone. The survivors would probably have to escape and form a government in exile in the USA, much like the Dalai Lama in India. But if Pakistan did so to India, then India would likely still survive, because of its sheer size and population.

India is the 3rd strongest Asian military power after China (the 2nd), while Pakistan (the 6th).
But Taiwan is only 12th in Asia -- which is still very strong considered that Taiwan is after all just a small island. But the power differences between the PLA and the ROC Armed Forces are tremendous.

Here is a breakdown of the ROC military forces:

Taiwan has an active military personnel of 170,000 people, while China has an active personnel of at least 2 million right now.
 

no smoking

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You shouldn't keep faith in USA and its major allies like Japan, Australia etc. Time and again, USA has proved itself capable of abandoning allies or using allies to fulfill its objectives.
Who else can Taiwan rely on?
USA is the only reason that Taiwan can still be there and be prosperous today. Without USA's economic, political and technological support, it is simply impossible for Taiwan to remain a
developed country status. If USA pulls out these supporting policies, within 10 years, Taiwanese will beg for reunification.

As long as China ensures USA and the west keeps getting their semiconductors, Taiwan is negotiable for them.
That is the myth created by Taiwanese. Taiwanese semiconductors factories are important for both sides, but not that important especially for US or West. Most of the key technologies and equipment in those factories come from them, in the worst case, they can expand the production in Korea and USA to meet the minimum demand within half year. 3 years later, the production will be totally recovered.

The key of Taiwan is its geographic location!
 

MilkTeaAlliance32

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Yeah ,I don't know why they bring up the india-pakistan comparison here with China-Taiwan or North Korea-South Korea.

in those other two cases there is some possibility of unity and merging one way or the other as the ideology and mannerisms and culture of the people are quite similar and with some work they can be assimilated.

Even with tension high between them and remaining so in the near future(10 years) they still will have a lot in common.

I think East asians have a lower degree for tolerance of differences because there is such differences between India.Even the Japanese and south Koreans have issues and these are two developed countries with more than 70-80 years between any kind of hostilities.

In the case of India-Pakistan,the commonality is just a meme that some people with agendas want to perpetuate and also some idiots believe in it.

The dreams and motivations of Indians and pakistanis are very different and we definitely wont tolerate them.
Looking at the previous poll, I was surprised that North Korea is now China's 4th favorite country, nearly 60% of Chinese people have a favorable view of North Korea. That is the current Chinese worldview, and just how nationalist they've become. ANY country allied to their government, no matter how corrupt or autocratic or oppressive, is cherished as long as it serves China's national interests. Asian solidarity? Well, the ideal is quite nice, but the poll indicates exactly how Chinese people today view most other Asian countries, basically only much smaller countries who are all but completely reliant upon or subservient to PRC interests, and those views are NOT changing at any time soon, I'm afraid.

Communists have always viewed the world this way -- class struggle, forcibly destroying all tradition and religion, permanently dividing the world into black-and-white camps with very little room for neutrality, etc. If you are not for China, then you must be against them. If you oppose the Chinese government or its interests, you are a pawn of imperialism, and must be destroyed, no exceptions. The peace that the Chinese future offers is honestly as dangerous and false as that of the "peace" by other groups, if you know what I'm referring to. I'm just being bluntly honest regarding this reality.

Moving on from that...do most Indians honestly have a positive view of Taiwan at least? I hope for example, if Taiwanese people visit India for pilgramages or other things, people won't react too badly to them, because they mistake Taiwanese people for mainland Chinese people. Would most people recognise the flag differences at least, if they brought an ROC flag with them for safety?? XD
 
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Love Charger

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Looking at the previous poll, I was surprised that North Korea is now China's 4th favorite country, nearly 60% of Chinese people have a favorable view of North Korea. That is the current Chinese worldview, and just how nationalist they've become. ANY country allied to their government, no matter how corrupt or autocratic or oppressive, is cherished as long as it serves China's national interests. Asian solidarity? Well, the ideal is quite nice, but the poll indicates exactly how Chinese people today view most other Asian countries, basically only much smaller countries who are all but completely reliant upon or subservient to PRC interests, and those views are NOT changing at any time soon, I'm afraid.

Communists have always viewed the world this way -- class struggle, forcibly destroying all tradition and religion, permanently dividing the world into black-and-white camps with very little room for neutrality, etc. If you are not for China, then you must be against them. If you oppose the Chinese government or its interests, you are a pawn of imperialism, and must be destroyed, no exceptions. The peace that the Chinese future offers is honestly as dangerous and false as that of the "peace" by other groups, if you know what I'm referring to. I'm just being bluntly honest regarding this reality.

Moving on from that...do most Indians honestly have a positive view of Taiwan at least? I hope for example, if Taiwanese people visit India for pilgramages or other things, people won't react too badly to them, because they mistake Taiwanese people for mainland Chinese people. Would most people recognise the flag differences at least, if they brought an ROC flag with them for safety?? XD
We know very little about Taiwan, to ve very honest .
Rather pardon me for saying this but most indians don't have any view for any other country except Pakistan and a little about prc .
Both of which are hostile
 

FalconSlayers

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Of course, I only meant that India is stronger than Pakistan and faces no realistic threat to its existence from Pakistan or Bangladesh or Sri Lanka, etc.

But Taiwan faces an existential threat by China every day. In other words, if China's leaders go crazy and try use the nuclear option against Taiwan, the the ROC government is honestly doomed -- and 2.6 million are clustered in Taipei alone. The survivors would probably have to escape and form a government in exile in the USA, much like the Dalai Lama in India. But if Pakistan did so to India, then India would likely still survive, because of its sheer size and population.

India is the 3rd strongest Asian military power after China (the 2nd), while Pakistan (the 6th).
But Taiwan is only 12th in Asia -- which is still very strong considered that Taiwan is after all just a small island. But the power differences between the PLA and the ROC Armed Forces are tremendous.

Here is a breakdown of the ROC military forces:

Taiwan has an active military personnel of 170,000 people, while China has an active personnel of at least 2 million right now.
Dude this happens almost everyday in Kashmir valley, Taiwan isn’t engaged in active combat as of now, thread indeed is there but here we’re actively neutralising the threats.



This used to happen everyday at the LoC until last year when Pakistan understood they can’t sustain a fight anymore with us.


These are rather SFW content, I have some NSFW content as well regarding what happens across LoC and COIN ops in J&K.
 

Love Charger

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Of course, I only meant that India is stronger than Pakistan and faces no realistic threat to its existence from Pakistan or Bangladesh or Sri Lanka, etc.

But Taiwan faces an existential threat by China every day. In other words, if China's leaders go crazy and try use the nuclear option against Taiwan, the the ROC government is honestly doomed -- and 2.6 million are clustered in Taipei alone. The survivors would probably have to escape and form a government in exile in the USA, much like the Dalai Lama in India. But if Pakistan did so to India, then India would likely still survive, because of its sheer size and population.

India is the 3rd strongest Asian military power after China (the 2nd), while Pakistan (the 6th).
But Taiwan is only 12th in Asia -- which is still very strong considered that Taiwan is after all just a small island. But the power differences between the PLA and the ROC Armed Forces are tremendous.

Here is a breakdown of the ROC military forces:

Taiwan has an active military personnel of 170,000 people, while China has an active personnel of at least 2 million right now.
We think long term , not everytime the enemy attacks you from outside.
Because if that were the case , india can alone handle the Chinese too , not only Pakistanis.
Destroying nations is a long campaign, you weaken the walls from inside the fort then outside enemies enter without obstructions.
 

Love Charger

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Looking at the previous poll, I was surprised that North Korea is now China's 4th favorite country, nearly 60% of Chinese people have a favorable view of North Korea. That is the current Chinese worldview, and just how nationalist they've become. ANY country allied to their government, no matter how corrupt or autocratic or oppressive, is cherished as long as it serves China's national interests. Asian solidarity? Well, the ideal is quite nice, but the poll indicates exactly how Chinese people today view most other Asian countries, basically only much smaller countries who are all but completely reliant upon or subservient to PRC interests, and those views are NOT changing at any time soon, I'm afraid.

Communists have always viewed the world this way -- class struggle, forcibly destroying all tradition and religion, permanently dividing the world into black-and-white camps with very little room for neutrality, etc. If you are not for China, then you must be against them. If you oppose the Chinese government or its interests, you are a pawn of imperialism, and must be destroyed, no exceptions. The peace that the Chinese future offers is honestly as dangerous and false as that of the "peace" by other groups, if you know what I'm referring to. I'm just being bluntly honest regarding this reality.

Moving on from that...do most Indians honestly have a positive view of Taiwan at least? I hope for example, if Taiwanese people visit India for pilgramages or other things, people won't react too badly to them, because they mistake Taiwanese people for mainland Chinese people. Would most people recognise the flag differences at least, if they brought an ROC flag with them for safety?? XD
Indian military and paramilitary are only ones in Asia which see combat all most regularly.
 

Sanglamorre

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Indian military and paramilitary are only ones in Asia which see combat all most regularly.
I'd have to actually put Pakistan higher on that list seeing how they keep getting attacked on all sides by us striking back, the tribal groups etc. Every other day there is a deadly attack that kills 5-6 Pakistani servicemen.
 

HitmanBlood

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Okay, to finish up some last thoughts from my previous post --

While India's young generation, from what I can tell, is also becoming much more nationalist and patriotic, and anti-China, while voting for Modi, China's young generation is also becoming more nationalist and pro-China. And their relations seem to be worsening over the past decade (the border dispute is still unresolved after the last several rounds of talks). And even if it is resolved, I doubt China will just abandon Pakistan afterwards and become best friends with India, regardless, there is too much history between all three countries. Both are Asian superpowers and the strongest economies / militaries in the continent, I don't know if this trend continues, what will happen years from now.

Most "ordinary" Taiwanese people who are not aging fossils are very, very strongly opposed to embracing Chinese identity, even the passport was changed very recently to distance itself from mainland China while traveling abroad.


And who can blame such views, honestly?? China is hated by most democratic countries today.

In short:
Taiwan's next generation: Increasingly pro-independence, anti-China
India's next generation: Increasingly pro-Modi, anti-China
China's next generation: Increasingly pro-China, anti-America, and anti-Taiwan and anti-India.


And here are some views from the current mainland Chinese people, India is their second most-hated country in the world.


View attachment 157633

I think the ROC military would try to fortify itself and prevent the PLA troops from landing on the shores as best it could. I'll try to expand more on this later.
In my opinion such surveys in dictatorial regimes makes no sense. First of all people would be afraid to speak their minds and second their opinion would have no impact in the decision making of the rulers.

Also people living in dictatorial regimes live under heavy propaganda which can easily be refuted if other sources are available.


-------------------------------------------------


My opinion on India-Taiwan relationship


I think India should strive to increase engagement with Taiwanese gov. Both share democratic values. There are many fields where both can help each other. Both India and Taiwan are concerned about China's increasing military power.


The biggest hurdle in Taiwan India relations is USA.

USA has not recognised Taiwan as an independent country nor they have encouraged their Euro allies to do so. Therefore world largely doesn't recognise Taiwan's independence.

Many years ago US made deals with CCP that includes one China policy. Under his policy Tibet, Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan are internal matters of China. This is why US didn't do anything when China was violating human rights in Hong Kong.

No matter what nonsense Biden or any US president says, when push comes to shove USA will abandon Taiwan the moment China invades. They will speak tough words for public consumption but will not take any actions.


Why USA is doing this?

US realised this fact long ago that Chinese reunification is imminent in future and it will happen under CCP not RoC. They have deep strategic and trade relations with mainland China. They do have interests in Taiwan but cost of coming to their rescue will far out weight its benifits.


The core principl that drives foreign policy of US is a racist, elitist, colonial, Anglo-Saxon centric world view that sees other non western countries as second class who exists to serve interests of westerners. Therefore Americans will always try to get best deal for themselves in China-Taiwan conflict. They will not care 2 cents about Taiwanese people.


How this effects India's approch towards Taiwan?

India neither has economic or military power to modify current world order. Therefore India has to rely on American led world order. Indian foreign policy is based around existing status quo. If world powers decides to tweak this status quo for their own interests, there is almost nothing India can do to prevent it.

This means India can only engage with Taiwan to a certain extent. India cannot be net security provider to Taiwan in today's conditions. India can only manage to do its part to help Taiwan in certain framework created by USA in Indo-Pacific.

I would like to also point out that other than America, India's largest defence partner Russia is currently fully in bed with CCP and India's major energy supplier GCC also has favorable relationship with CCP regime. India too is heavily dependent on China for its Industrial and electronics needs. Not to forget that China can play Pakistan card against India or cause more headache in Himalaya borders.

Because of above reasons India's approch towards Taiwan has been the way it is today. However as India becomes economically stronger and more and more self reliant, we will see India pursuing a more independent foreign policy towards Taiwan.

A strong powerful India as counter balnce to China will be a huge relief to Asia and especially Taiwan. Unfortunately Taiwan doesn't have that much time. As China under CCP has become powerful in such a short time, the balance has shifted in their favour rapidly. If Taiwan survives for next 2 to 3 decades while India strengthens itself, we will see a strong partnership between both countries. India may even lobby for Taiwan in various international organisations.

There is even an argument about Asian security post CCP takeover of Taiwan but that would be off topic here.
 

SKC

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i am of the opinion that, as of today chances are not good for taiwan. hence my earlier question, how prepared is taiwan to hold off PLA and militias for a month or two.

There are zero indications that US will put boots on the ground in taiwan (atleast publicly), "US military advisors" may come and help a bit like they are doing in ukraine, but most of the leg work will have to be done by taiwanese themselves.
All the help from US is again gonna be in form of Military Aids only like they are giving to Ukraine.

If China actually starts their campaign to take over Taiwan, Taiwan does not has much chance to repel them off.
The numerical superiority is superiority by the end of the day, Taiwan will simply get overwhelmed by them.
No one will bat an eye on China if they chose to take over Taiwan.
 

MilkTeaAlliance32

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Taiwan is only getting close to India because China is heating up the borders.

Taiwan has similar claims on Indian territories are China has today. They even want more of our land than Mainland China hold currently.

Unless you let go of the claims genuinely I don't see point into having more co-operation.
I want to try to explain the difference between the PRC and the ROC. Some Indians might think, hey, they both claim such vast lands, they're just as bad and imperialistic as each other, same difference. No, there actually IS a difference. If you listen to the two anthems...you'd notice this right away. The PRC anthem calls for millions of people to rise up and build a new "Great Wall" made of fresh blood. The ROC anthem is calmer, more relaxed and dignified, simply calling for the Three Principles of the People to be implemented.



The PRC is about tearing down all of the existing system through force, the ROC I think rather strives to improve and reform it. There was a Taiwanese person who once said something like, "Communism is like a beautiful and enticing woman with a deadly disease that cannot easily be noticed -- until it is too late."

I won't go into Taiwanese identity itself today, that is too complicated. But I would argue that the ROC represents the "real" China, or at least, what China was supposed or meant to become -- the spiritual China, I guess, you could call it -- a China in which liberty for everyone, all citizens treated equally, was the highest ideal, not any kind of bloody or international socialist revolution of any kind.

While Communism hates tradition and religion, the ROC honors and cherishes the traditional Chinese culture of the past (Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism, etc.) Even in Taiwan today, you can find hundreds and hundreds of Buddhist sects, and the people are among the most deeply devout practictioners in Asia. Even the popular mainland system of Chinese writing is a diluted and extremely "simplified" form that was made less than a century ago. That is one major and serious difference between the two sides - the PRC is secular and materialistic, with most party members officially atheist, while the ROC is more spiritual and religious (even many of its leaders and officials were deeply religious people who prayed every day to the Buddha, to God, etc.) Sun Yat-sen himself was a devout Christian, for example, and lots of other ROC leaders were either Christian or Buddhist.

So even in a worst case scenario had the ROC defeated the Communists and moved on Tibet or the other border regions -- I think they would have treated them much, much better. Religion at least would not be regarded as something akin to an outdated drug as Mao regarded it, and they would understand the meaning of honoring ancient tradition like the Tibetans do to this day, and done their best to preserve their monasteries and their customs and institutions -- think of for example, USA with Germany or Japan after the war.

Another major difference is that mainland China / PRC is very collectivist, while Taiwan (ROC) is very individualistic.

For example, if China theoretically attacked Japan tomorrow, the vast majority of mainlanders would probably cheer the attack, or at least not oppose it, or shrug and go along with the government's decision, because that was they are used to by now. But if Taiwan's government suddenly declared war on Japan, most people would be rioting angrily in the streets, waving signs like, "The government are traitors and warmongers, take them out!" and things like that, and some might even try to break into the the government buildings. In Taiwan, the people do not necessarily accept the government's official stances on this or that, or even go against them freely, as individuals. Most Taiwanese people still regard Japan as their "favorite country", even with the dispute. :)
 
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MilkTeaAlliance32

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Are you from Taiwan?

Now coming to the question of "whether India and Taiwan can become allies". Well this all depends on the interest of both the nations.

Before we even think of becoming allies, we need to do the most important thing which is Recognise Taiwan as a Sovereign country.

Few countries are the list of being Countries which currently recognise Taiwan as the ROC. The list includes countries like :

Belize, Guatemala, Haiti, Holy See, Honduras, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Nicaragua, Palau, Paraguay, St Lucia, St Kitts and Nevis, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Swaziland and Tuvalu.

Or maybe we can exclude the part of recognition of Taiwan. The United States had maintained Taiwan's recognition for 30 years after the Chinese civil war but switched in 1979. Despite this, the U.S. has maintained a positive relationship with Taiwan. Same can be done with India. Instead of formally recognising Taiwan, india can unofficially establish Diplomatic ties with Taiwan and Trade should be done with each other in larger Scale.

[DISCLAIMER : ALL THE MATTER WRITTEN BY ME IN THIS POST ONLY REFLECT MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION]
Another thing Communism and China does very well is that it plays both victim and aggressor alternatively in a very clever and cunning way; it plays both roles back and forth, whenever it sees fit, and tries to get others to fall for this subtle manipulation. For example, look at its national anthem, and one line stands out particularly - "The Chinese nation faces its greatest danger". Well, perhaps. But does that danger really come from America or Taiwan or any foreign country? Or is it possible it comes from somewhere, much closer to home?

This is the basic worldview of the PRC from its foundation -- suspicion, hostility, mistrust, paranoia. Everyone is potentially an enemy, even the Russian comrades from the north (which led to their split in the Cold War, Mao thought Stalin was too "soft" on the West). And it was their duty to turn everyone into a Communist by every means possible. If you did not 100% revolt and fight against the government's designated enemies with all your strength, you are on the side of the enemy, and as bad as they are.

That was why Mao went to war with India. Many Indians here think Nehru was soft and weak and too pro-China. But that was NOT what Mao and his followers thought. They thought Nehru was seeking to secretly build a new "Indian Empire" much like what the British built with the "British Empire" -- and that he was also plotting to divide China's territory by sympathising with Tibetans. Could it not be that Nehru and other Indians had genuine feelings due to cultural and historical links? Absolutely NOT, Mao could never understand that. And so, the only logical explanation for Mao was that Nehru was a British-influenced bourgeosie pawn of Western imperialism, who sought to build a new empire for India, and who thus sought to aggressively harm and even possibly destroy the Chinese nation.

Marxism-Leninism might have helped China a little in its early years, but it backfired almost immediately. That is why the PRC itself has largely embraced capitalism and abandoned its founder's ideologies mostly. The PRC's founding ideals might have been suitable for a short-term basis...but the ROC's founding ideals are suitable for a long-term basis, perhaps, even, a timeless basis.

I think the PRC's founders generally looked for the worst in people, including the Chinese people most of all, appealing to their desperation and fear and base animal instincts such as survival, whereas the ROC's founders generally tried their best to look for the best in them, their faith and spirituality and their belief in democracy and equal representation for all peoples, regardless of background. That is the major difference between the two sides of the strait, and remains so to this day.

Most Chinese people before the PRC's foundation revered India -- they deeply respected India for its ancient beliefs and mythologies. For most East Asians, India was even a Holy Land traditionally, much like most Jewish people regarded Palestine for ages. The PRC did not care about any of that -- it was rooted in a past long dead, from their perspective, and was useless and harmful towards modernisation and progress, nothing but a relic of the past best tossed aside as quickly as possible. And that is why I think why China allies with countries barely less than a century old, even with no ideological or real cultural bond between them, because to the PRC's worldview, there are no permanent friends or enemies, only permanent interests. Everything and everyone is expendable. Does it matter what some of its allies do to other states from the shadows? No, not really, as long as they are pro-China, it does not matter.

And unlike the ROC, who at least tries to shape its foreign policy on democratic ideals and commonalities, the PRC's foreign policy is shaped solely by cold and pragmatic interests of an godless and atheist state -- what profits it the most in any given situation, nothing more or less, period. The PRC even changes its own ideals and principles constantly to suit the circumstances, while to the ROC, I guess, some things are never meant to change, and should never change. The PRC seems to be based on interests more than ideals. The ROC seems to be based more on ideals than on interests.

This is from a question, "Did the ancient Chinese consider India inferior?"

Did Chinese find India inferior.png
 
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SKC

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I want to try to explain the difference between the PRC and the ROC. Some Indians might think, hey, they both claim such vast lands, they're just as bad and imperialistic as each other, same difference. No, there actually IS a difference. If you listen to the two anthems...you'd notice this right away. The PRC anthem calls for millions of people to rise up and build a new "Great Wall" made of fresh blood. The ROC anthem is calmer, more relaxed and dignified, simply calling for the Three Principles of the People to be implemented.



The PRC is about tearing down all of the existing system through force, the ROC I think rather strives to improve and reform it. There was a Taiwanese person who once said something like, "Communism is like a beautiful and enticing woman with a deadly disease that cannot easily be noticed -- until it is too late."

I won't go into Taiwanese identity itself today, that is too complicated. But I would argue that the ROC represents the "real" China, or at least, what China was supposed or meant to become -- the spiritual China, I guess, you could call it -- a China in which liberty for everyone, all citizens treated equally, was the highest ideal, not any kind of bloody or international socialist revolution of any kind.

While Communism hates tradition and religion, the ROC honors and cherishes the traditional Chinese culture of the past (Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism, etc.) Even in Taiwan today, you can find hundreds and hundreds of Buddhist sects, and the people are among the most deeply devout practictioners in Asia. Even the popular mainland system of Chinese writing is a diluted and extremely "simplified" form that was made less than a century ago. That is one major and serious difference between the two sides - the PRC is secular and materialistic, with most party members officially atheist, while the ROC is more spiritual and religious (even many of its leaders and officials were deeply religious people who prayed every day to the Buddha, to God, etc.) Sun Yat-sen himself was a devout Christian, for example, and lots of other ROC leaders were either Christian or Buddhist.

So even in a worst case scenario had the ROC defeated the Communists and moved on Tibet or the other border regions -- I think they would have treated them much, much better. Religion at least would not be regarded as something akin to an outdated drug as Mao regarded it, and they would understand the meaning of honoring ancient tradition like the Tibetans do to this day, and done their best to preserve their monasteries and their customs and institutions -- think of for example, USA with Germany or Japan after the war.

Another major difference is that mainland China / PRC is very collectivist, while Taiwan (ROC) is very individualistic.

For example, if China theoretically attacked Japan tomorrow, the vast majority of mainlanders would probably cheer the attack, or at least not oppose it, or shrug and go along with the government's decision, because that was they are used to by now. But if Taiwan's government suddenly declared war on Japan, most people would be rioting angrily in the streets, waving signs like, "The government are traitors and warmongers, take them out!" and things like that, and some might even try to break into the the government buildings. In Taiwan, the people do not necessarily accept the government's official stances on this or that, or even go against them freely, as individuals. Most Taiwanese people still regard Japan as their "favorite country", even with the dispute. :)
:confused1: :confused1:

Your post did not answer my point at all. my Point is very true. Taiwan claims all the lands which PRC claims. just they claims that with their own govt instead of CCP.
 

MilkTeaAlliance32

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:confused1: :confused1:

Your post did not answer my point at all. my Point is very true. Taiwan claims all the lands which PRC claims. just they claims that with their own govt instead of CCP.
Why do you think so? I was trying to convey that the PRC and ROC are extremely different governments in their outlooks, and thus would have had substantially different domestic and foreign policies. Well, that is the official stance, yes. But partly that is only because to renounce them would mean to send to Beijing a message that it was pursuing a truly separate identity -- and that Taiwan was nearing its declaration of full independence from the mainland. And that alone would dangerously increase tensions in the Taiwan strait.

And besides, as I stated, most Taiwanese don't really care about these old territory disputes, or even if they did, it still would not affect their views of those countries, or cause them to side with China against them. For example, the Diaoyutai dispute with the Japanese - they were able to sign a fisheries agreement years ago, and Japan remains Taiwan's favorite country regardless. Even the most nationalist pro-KMT members are not likely to support a war with either Japan or Mongolia.

Beginning in 1994, the Chinese sold 5,000 ring magnets, used in gas centrifuges for enriching uranium, to the laboratory of the infamous Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan. Beijing also appears to have provided nuclear test data, more modern warhead designs, and plutonium technology for which there are no peaceful uses. China may even have tested a Pakistani device on its soil. Chinese help was crucial, extensive, and continuous. “If you subtract Chinese assistance from the Pakistani nuclear weapons program, there is no program,” says Gary Milhollin of the Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control.

The PRC gave Pakistan its nuclear arsenal, and also helped North Korea with its missile program, the ROC probably would not have done so. That alone is a major difference between the two governments. I think if the ROC had won the war, relations in Asia would have been much better than they are today.
 

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