Dispelling fictitious myths about 'Hindu vegetarianism'

S.A.T.A

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I have a doubt, I mean we have learnt that Plants identify with Music, Plants feel our touch, and they can feel Pain too and are Living beings just like us, except that they are stationary. So when we kill a Plant for food, isnt it a sin too?
Ancients seers did not consider plants as part of the living world or that of higher beings and moreover the reasons why meat was discouraged as diet was not just because of post vedic emphasis on Ahimsa,but also because animals,although part of living world,were considered lesser being and their consumption would pollute and degrade man's status as a higher being.

The Smritis,esp that of manu,which were the great Hindu law codes,forbid consumption of meat unless it was consumed within the context of a vedic sacrifice or if life could not be sustained without the oudana(grain)
 

Rage

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Yes, I was trying to answer two types of debates that go on in virtual world. 1) Hindus are vegetarians or more harshly grass. and 2) Hindus don't respect their religion and eat meat. which is usually debated by either side by giving examples from Mahabharatha & Rig-veda even though they never read that. Correct me if its out of this topics context.

Thanks,

Nope, absoloutely not :)


Personallly, I am a kshatriyeh of the Maratha tribe. I cannot do without meat and usually consume veal about 4 days a week (including lunch 'n' dinner), chicken atleast two or three a week, and fish atleast once. i cannot recall the last time I had a 'purely vegetarian' meal (I suspect it was sometime in 2005 when I went to a Gujarati friends' wedding). And enjoy gorging on 'exotic' meats- from everything from turtles in Kerala to frogs' legs in Goa to seal in Canada and Ostrich and alligator meat in Texas. My breakfast usually consist of a whole compliment of eggs (about 4 times a week), soldiers' gruel and ham. If it were not for the fact that I box, I'd expect to have gout by the time I was in post-grad university and clogged arteries by the time I was fifty :D


I also want to add, that this is why I find Hinduism such a compelling way of life. I find its flexibility and tractability inexorably appealing. And being the roguish machinator that I am, am inclined to allude to the political harnessing of the pantheistic traditions of the 'religio romanii' in Roman statecraft. Religion was such a strong tool there, such a powerful code of conduct that the Gods were often invoked, and with considerable success, to exhort people to victory, good deeds and prosperity. The similarities between the Roman religion and Hinduism are striking. As in ancient India, religion was used to organize, regulate and structure society - and in many respects, was a function and conducer of their civilization. This for instance:

YouTube - HBO Rome Behind the Scenes THE GODS
 

ppgj

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I have a doubt, I mean we have learnt that Plants identify with Music, Plants feel our touch, and they can feel Pain too and are Living beings just like us, except that they are stationary. So when we kill a Plant for food, isnt it a sin too?
it is ahmed. agree with you. somehow consciously or unconsciously blood has become synonymous with life and there in lies the answer.
 

musalman

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Our perception of Hindu dates back to pre 1947 era. For example my Dad's elder brother friend was a Hindu. His friend was beaten up by his parent coz he brought my uncle to his home. His Mom beat him for bring a meat eating Muslah to their house.
 

johnee

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I have never had a veg Hindu friend most of them being Brahmins. In fact they relish meat.
I have seen Marwari community members who are usually veg, eat non veg and that includes one of my best friend.

Wonder where all this comes from. I have read somewhere that even Lord Ram had meat. That should quell any religion based reasons for not eating meat.
Yusuf,

Lord Sri Ramchandra was a kshatriya, he could and did eat meat. Brahmins(and some sub-castes) are not allowed(religiously) to eat meat. Most of the Hindus can and do eat meat. Also during the time of Sri Ram(Treta Yug), meat could be used as prasad for God, but it is not allowed now(Kali Yug).

I read somewhere that even Buddha ate meat. Infact, I read that he died due to indigestion after eating pork(he was in advanced age).
 

johnee

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I have a doubt, I mean we have learnt that Plants identify with Music, Plants feel our touch, and they can feel Pain too and are Living beings just like us, except that they are stationary. So when we kill a Plant for food, isnt it a sin too?
No, mate. If a deer eats grass it is not a sin, if a tiger eats a deer, it is not a sin. Basically, you have to eat what your body is supposed to eat. Eating one's natural food(as provided by god) is not a sin and is essential for keeping the body alive, so that the body could be used to do positive karma(punya). A human body is supposed to be herbivorous and not omnivorous.
 

johnee

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There is no rule in either Hinduism or Islam or Christianity to celebrate Festivals with Meat or without meat.
No, mate. Hindus generally(as a tradition) do not eat meat on certain festival days like Diwali(Goddess Lakshmi Puja), or Shivaratri...etc. So, whether the texts explicitly state that meat is to be avoided on these days is not imp(since the texts discourage the general meat eating), but the tradition is clear that meat is not eaten on certain holy days.
 

johnee

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That is the prerogative of the individual. As every major Hindu Guru or ShikShak will tell you: there are no steadfast rules in Hinduism. And readings and "understandings" of the Rig Veda and Mahabharata are subject to a wide range of interpretations, as Guru Sivaya himself holds.
Sure, but there are certain set conventions for these interpretations. Those interpretations that do not meet the conventions are not considered to be supported by the text, rather they are the twists put due to interpretations that are brought out of half-knowledge. And as we all know half knowledge is dangerous whether for Guru or shishya.
 

Pintu

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Actually , I am an Indian first , and born in Bengali Hindu Family, but we follow strict vegetarian diet for two days 1. Tuesday 2. Saturday , Tues day = Mangal Bar in Bengali , as the day marked by auspicious day of brata for Goddess 'Mangal Chandi' (Mangal = Well Being) , the no non-veg item being allowed either home or in any other places , may anybody besides us can have it, but we refrain from taking meat, fish , egg as our meal on that day , and Many Bengali Hindu family has the different days in the week , on which they follow strict vegetarian diet marking different occasion.

Regards
 

johnee

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I am an Indian first , and born in Bengali Hindu Family
..........

Regards
Pintuda,
the highlighted part got me thinking, why did you explicitly state that you are Indian first? Do you see any friction between being both an Indian and Hindu at the same time? IMHO, being a hindu automatically means devoted to India. No Hindu can ever hope to follow his religion while not worshipping India. The first step in Hinduism is to love and worship India. I think there is no contradiction in being an Indian and a Hindu at the same time. The contradiction may be true in case of some religions, but not for Hinduism which was born in India, for India, and by India.
 

Pintu

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No, dear johnee , I mean it in generalise sense , if you please hear from my mind, the people consists not only with you and me , but also other people here respected members , may they have different ideology , I can feel it what you have said :) I am not getting personal.

Regards
 

Vinod2070

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Our perception of Hindu dates back to pre 1947 era. For example my Dad's elder brother friend was a Hindu. His friend was beaten up by his parent coz he brought my uncle to his home. His Mom beat him for bring a meat eating Muslah to their house.
Such attitudes of strong anathema to non vegetarians are reducing now. People are growing more comfortable with the fact that it is an individual choice.

I am a vegetarian, not so much for religious reasons now as for compassionate reasons towards animals. I have no issues if a person has meat (even beef) on the same table as me. If asked, I will explain why I don't like an animal to be killed just for me to enjoy a meal.
 

Singh

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The scriptures however are pretty clear on this,you cannot eat any meat without killing a living being and that alone disqualifies you from moksha. :)
Mahabharata at one place mentions that meat eating is something which man is attracted to but renouncing it entitles one to great rewards. Though at another place it says iirc eating meat explicitly for the purpose of increasing one's flesh is to be avoided.

Manu Smriti and even Chanakya Niti list the kinds of meat one is allowed to consume.

Some Yajnas involve sacrifices, and one of the highest karma a person could perform is Ashvamedha yajna or the horse sacrifice.

And meat is also offered to the pitris.

And even micro-organisms and plants are living beings.
 

Singh

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Our perception of Hindu dates back to pre 1947 era. For example my Dad's elder brother friend was a Hindu. His friend was beaten up by his parent coz he brought my uncle to his home. His Mom beat him for bring a meat eating Muslah to their house.
Mostly likely due to the strong wave of Arya Samajist ideology prevalent at the time.
 

johnee

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Mahabharata at one place mentions that meat eating is something which man is attracted to but renouncing it entitles one to great rewards. Though at another place it says iirc eating meat explicitly for the purpose of increasing one's flesh is to be avoided.
Didnt know that. Could you let me know in which place in the scripture is it mentioned? I am asking it just to know. There is also a incident in Mahabharata where a meatseller teaches the gyan to wellversed Brahmin.


Some Yajnas involve sacrifices, and one of the highest karma a person could perform is Ashvamedha yajna or the horse sacrifice.
Thats true. Though it is not seen as meat, in case of vedic rituals especially yagna. In Ramyana, there is a story of yagna where human is to be sacrificed(with the consent of human).

And meat is also offered to the pitris.
In some communites. Not in some others. It depends.

And even micro-organisms and plants are living beings.
but they belong much lesser in hierarchy of living things.
 

Singh

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Didnt know that. Could you let me know in which place in the scripture is it mentioned? I am asking it just to know. There is also a incident in Mahabharata where a meatseller teaches the gyan to wellversed Brahmin.
I think in the Santi Parva. I don't recall right now sorry.

but they belong much lesser in hierarchy of living things.
But they are living things. (though we are not killing them for their meat)
 

johnee

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I think in the Santi Parva. I don't recall right now sorry.
Thanx.

But they are living things. (though we are not killing them for their meat)
sure. But just by being alive, we are killing other microbes. It is inevitable and not be taken as 'killing'. If you know what I mean....

One cannot begrudge the tiger of eating deer or rabbit. That does not count as 'killing/violence' but rather as an inevitable collateral damage of living.
 

Singh

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A human body is supposed to be herbivorous and not omnivorous.
I can eat meat and survive, ergo I am not herbivorous.

While we are on the subject
Please read Michael Pollan's 2 books
1. Omnivore's Dilemma
2. In defense of food

The meat that we eat today is not what can be considered "food".
Livestock is specially raised for their meat; fed steroids, grains, and antibiotics so that they yield more meat etc.
 

bengalraider

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actually there are three main schools of Hinduism
the vaishnav school-primary god Krishna but whole pantheon represented primarily vegetarians.
the shaivite school-primary god lord Shiva but whole pantheon represented, primarily vegetarians.
the shakti school- this school is further split into streams worshipping shakti as parvati and kali respectively it is the stream of worshippers who worship kali who are primarily non-vegetarians.

i myself belong to the branch worshipping kali primarily (UTKAL BRAHMIN) in the old rituals of worshipping certain forms of kali like the dacoit kali and the chinnamastike kali(kali who has cut off her own head in anger) the actual puja involves sacrifices of meat and alcohol, which are the prasadam of the puja.
 

S.A.T.A

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Mahabharata at one place mentions that meat eating is something which man is attracted to but renouncing it entitles one to great rewards. Though at another place it says iirc eating meat explicitly for the purpose of increasing one's flesh is to be avoided.

Manu Smriti and even Chanakya Niti list the kinds of meat one is allowed to consume.

Some Yajnas involve sacrifices, and one of the highest karma a person could perform is Ashvamedha yajna or the horse sacrifice.

And meat is also offered to the pitris.

And even micro-organisms and plants are living beings.
The smritis and Sutras do not forbid killing of animals(as i have mentioned in the earlier post)but strictly define the act within the philosophical aspect.Accordingly if one keen to avoid born as a lesser being in the next birth or attain mokshsa, thus become one with the Para Brahma(universal consciousness),then one is advised against degrading his body by consuming the flesh and juice of lesser beings.

The Ashwamedha was only performed by the ruler of a Gana(country)and was mostly political in nature(not everybody did that),besides it was mostly symbolic in nature,with its rites and ritual enactments.It by no means described the dietary norms of the people.Moreover the the sacrificial Ashwa in this case is no longer a mere dumb animal,its been purified and when it wanders around the countryside, its the personification of the king himself(a higher being)

And even micro-organisms and plants are living beings
Religious precepts such as this cannot be properly understood in the context of modern wisdom.ancients considered all matter as living,but with different hierarchy,even the running water or a mountain was considered living and animate.
 

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