Discussion | AUKUS: Impact of sharing nuclear submarine technology with Australia

Tshering22

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So Australia will get its first nuclear submarine post 2050 if it survives.... Great job uncle Sam.....😆😆😆
:rofl: :rofl:
I am beginning to wonder whether Biden is working for Beijing and royally screwing all potential competition in the region for the G2 behind the scenes.

But on a serious note, we need to be a bit cautious.
 

temujin

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AUKUS is not just about nuclear subs. It part of a deeper strategic partnership spanning defence, science (AI, quantum computing) and diplomatic/intelligence cooperation beyond the current NATO/Five eyes framework- at least that's how it's being sold to the British public. Oz is not expected to build dedicated infrastructure or breach it's so called non proliferation commitments to handle the fuel/waste arising from the subs- the UK is expected to do this on their behalf (for the right price of course)
 

Hari Sud

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AUKUS is not just about nuclear subs. It part of a deeper strategic partnership spanning defence, science (AI, quantum computing) and diplomatic/intelligence cooperation beyond the current NATO/Five eyes framework- at least that's how it's being sold to the British public. Oz is not expected to build dedicated infrastructure or breach it's so called non proliferation commitments to handle the fuel/waste arising from the subs- the UK is expected to do this on their behalf (for the right price of course)
Agreed but a wrong country of 30 million selected for this deep strategy with wrong geographic location.
 

ezsasa

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Agreed but a wrong country of 30 million selected for this deep strategy with wrong geographic location.
Australia is thanedar of South Pacific, and only one with cash in that region to sustain long range recon patrols, which also explains why they are switching to nuclear subs.

Aussie and NZ security pact with US exists anyways.
 

temujin

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Agreed but a wrong country of 30 million selected for this deep strategy with wrong geographic location.
Though it appears counterintuitive and inefficient, AUKUS makes perfect sense for the UK when seen in the context of the country's post Brexit vision and priorities. Though much of the leave campaign was driven by xenophobia and concerns around immigration from Eastern Europe, the stated aim of Brexit was to unleash a buccaneering, 'global Britain' free from suzerainty to Brussels. An alliance with Anglophone nations sharing the same head of state, legal and cultural traditions- the so called 'CANZUK'- has long been regarded by Brexiters as mitigation for the loss of UK's global influence from exiting EU. Not only would the alliance create the 3rd largest economic block globally with nuclear weapons and a seat at UNSC, it would also provide the basis for projecting British, or rather 'anglo saxon', soft power across the world. This block will also work in close partnership with 'like minded democracies' (read US, Japan, possibly India) to resist the rise of China and Russia. The EU is not considered a reliable partner in this regard given its mercantilist impulses and internal dissentions particularly from Eastern European states that make presenting a united front to China and Russia difficult. The NATO is also no longer seen as fit for purpose given Turkey's undermining of the organisation in recent years. Since future conflicts are unlikely to see deployment of physical armies/equipment and with the advent of hypersonic/low earth orbit ballistic missiles and submarines with unlimited range, one could also argue that geography is becoming increasingly immaterial for such alliances.

From an electoral perspective for the Tories, whilst some of EU's recent actions have helped keep the Brexit pot simmering, the party's base is getting restive and will demand to see tangible benefits from the newly gained 'sovereignty' at the next elections. Further strengthening of ties with Oz, with which the UK shares deep fraternal ties, is certain to be electorally popular in middle England. There is also a new trade deal being negotiated between UK/OZ which will, among other things, reinstate limited freedom of movement between the two countries that was lost under the Maastricht treaty- so AUKUS is being seen as part of a wider piece in this regard.
 

Tshering22

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Though it appears counterintuitive and inefficient, AUKUS makes perfect sense for the UK when seen in the context of the country's post Brexit vision and priorities. Though much of the leave campaign was driven by xenophobia and concerns around immigration from Eastern Europe, the stated aim of Brexit was to unleash a buccaneering, 'global Britain' free from suzerainty to Brussels. An alliance with Anglophone nations sharing the same head of state, legal and cultural traditions- the so called 'CANZUK'- has long been regarded by Brexiters as mitigation for the loss of UK's global influence from exiting EU. Not only would the alliance create the 3rd largest economic block globally with nuclear weapons and a seat at UNSC, it would also provide the basis for projecting British, or rather 'anglo saxon', soft power across the world. This block will also work in close partnership with 'like minded democracies' (read US, Japan, possibly India) to resist the rise of China and Russia. The EU is not considered a reliable partner in this regard given its mercantilist impulses and internal dissentions particularly from Eastern European states that make presenting a united front to China and Russia difficult. The NATO is also no longer seen as fit for purpose given Turkey's undermining of the organisation in recent years. Since future conflicts are unlikely to see deployment of physical armies/equipment and with the advent of hypersonic/low earth orbit ballistic missiles and submarines with unlimited range, one could also argue that geography is becoming increasingly immaterial for such alliances.

From an electoral perspective for the Tories, whilst some of EU's recent actions have helped keep the Brexit pot simmering, the party's base is getting restive and will demand to see tangible benefits from the newly gained 'sovereignty' at the next elections. Further strengthening of ties with Oz, with which the UK shares deep fraternal ties, is certain to be electorally popular in middle England. There is also a new trade deal being negotiated between UK/OZ which will, among other things, reinstate limited freedom of movement between the two countries that was lost under the Maastricht treaty- so AUKUS is being seen as part of a wider piece in this regard.
AUKUS is a US brainchild with UK piggybacking on it. Canada, Australia and NZ have long discarded the Queen for all practical purposes. She's more like a visiting movie star than anything else despite what their constitutions say. Canada & Australia host some of the most crucial US defence technology companies (almost like overseas territories), their entire military fleets of tactical platforms are American made, except for a shred of European options. NZ is too small to matter anyway so they just follow along.

Given that they badly need diesel-electric subs for the time being, the option would be to approach someone like Japan, South Korea or Sweden now that they have burned the bridges with France.
 

ezsasa

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Covfefe

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Australia, the United States and the United Kingdom have vowed to expand cooperation on hypersonic weapons under the AUKUS

Also reported that the US just successfully tested it's air launched hypersonic missile about a month ago
 

BON PLAN

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Leaked document shows Australian officials 'kept in dark' about French submarine cancellation


"
On the claims of a cost blowout, Mr Gillis says these claims were built on an escalating series of misunderstandings of comments made as early as 2015 by officials in parliamentary committees.

This process began with an estimate of $50 billion mentioned in an October 2015 committee hearing which was quoting the cost of the submarine program in 2040 dollars.

"What was not stipulated but was understood at the time was that Defence was talking about the purchase of Japanese Soryu Class submarines to be built in Japan. Built and potentially delivered in the 'early 2040s,'" Mr Gillis said.

This was for a significantly smaller submarine than the current Australian subs, and submarines "built in Japan with no new infrastructure [and] no Australian content targets". "

...

"A cabinet submission drafted by Greg Sammut, and released after an FOI request, was sent to the Defence deputy secretary responsible for shipbuilding, Tony Dalton, 34 days before the cancellation of the program on August 20 last year.

It said: "The updated program cost estimate is $46.4 billion in 2016 constant dollars, which remains within the original acquisition cost estimate of $50 billion in 2016 constant dollars announced at the outset of the Attack class submarine program in April 2016". "


...

"The evaluation identified that the new Attack class would be the most advanced and lethal conventionally powered submarine ever built.

"The main criteria for selection were that it would produce a regionally superior and sovereign capability.

"It was interesting at the time that my American submariner colleagues who assisted with the evaluation concluded that the new Attack could provide capabilities in a range of operational environments that would exceed some of the capabilities of the US nuclear boats.

"Not in all but in areas that would be critical in the defence of the Australian continent, especially in the protection of the shallow sea lanes and the littorals to our north.
 

BON PLAN

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AUKUS fallout: double-dealing and deception came at a diplomatic cost

"A preliminary guess at the price of acquiring the nuclear subs ranges from $116 billion to $171 billion, (*) including anticipated inflation, according to the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. Incidental extras would include the $10 billion cost of a new subs base on the east coast, as flagged by Morrison in March.
"

(*) : ie 2 to 3 time more costly than the french bid. Once again, congrats Morisson and Jonhson (all 2 fired in their own countries)
 

karn

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AUKUS fallout: double-dealing and deception came at a diplomatic cost

"A preliminary guess at the price of acquiring the nuclear subs ranges from $116 billion to $171 billion, (*) including anticipated inflation, according to the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. Incidental extras would include the $10 billion cost of a new subs base on the east coast, as flagged by Morrison in March.
"

(*) : ie 2 to 3 time more costly than the french bid. Once again, congrats Morisson and Jonhson (all 2 fired in their own countries)
If La Penn wins , Will France follow a more isolationist policy.
 

BON PLAN

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If La Penn wins , Will France follow a more isolationist policy.
Marine Le Pen is leaving the head of the party. It will be a closed file in the next weeks. (Her name is far too dividing).
In case of a real right wing government in France, we will stop wild immigration (for a chosen immigration as in Australia, NZ, USA...), but not becoming isolationist.
 

Blademaster

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Marine Le Pen is leaving the head of the party. It will be a closed file in the next weeks. (Her name is far too dividing).
In case of a real right wing government in France, we will stop wild immigration (for a chosen immigration as in Australia, NZ, USA...), but not becoming isolationist.
Will France support India in its hinduphobia education initiative?
 

Lonewolf

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I don't understand your question.
Totally unrelated and should be moved to proper thread .

Guy above is asking that in the light of targeted attacks and propoganda against Hindus across the World by muslim (mostly from Indian subcontinent) , will France have a stand in favour or remain neutral or against the fight to address hinduphobia and misinterpretation of our religion and our history , if a right wing government wins?
 

BON PLAN

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Totally unrelated and should be moved to proper thread .

Guy above is asking that in the light of targeted attacks and propoganda against Hindus across the World by muslim (mostly from Indian subcontinent) , will France have a stand in favour or remain neutral or against the fight to address hinduphobia and misinterpretation of our religion and our history , if a right wing government wins?
I don't think so. A hard fight against fundamentalists muslims in France is becoming. We will not put oil on fire by helping other country. It's a lonely fight...
 

armortec

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AUKUS fallout: double-dealing and deception came at a diplomatic cost

"A preliminary guess at the price of acquiring the nuclear subs ranges from $116 billion to $171 billion, (*) including anticipated inflation, according to the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. Incidental extras would include the $10 billion cost of a new subs base on the east coast, as flagged by Morrison in March.
"

(*) : ie 2 to 3 time more costly than the french bid. Once again, congrats Morisson and Jonhson (all 2 fired in their own countries)
What a complete shitshow all around. China must be laughing.
 

Love Charger

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I don't think so. A hard fight against fundamentalists muslims in France is becoming. We will not put oil on fire by helping other country. It's a lonely fight...
I see, its good that we are alone capable of fighting whole of Islamic world if needed.
All the best sir , for your fight.
 

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