Did Islam Ruin Afghanistan ?

[Mad Indian]

How are you so sure that bennedose is wrong on all counts ? Some proof supporting your assertions would help because your views are contrary to the mainstream, conventional or popular belief-system. So, being politically-incorrect wouldn't be convincing enough unless some supporting evidences are shared.

The burden of proof or the onus in on you. I am sure you can share enough.

et tu brute:shocked:

 

[TrueSpirit1]

You love to bluff don't you? You know very very little about India, although I am not sure that you are Indian. You could be Pakistani from the pathetic ignorance you have - playing a little game with you and neo chamcha-fying each other. Cut it out. All you have to do is type a few words before you make a stupid error.

I think you are a Paki playing a game of tag - pretending to be Indian. Your lack of depth in knowledge is too obvious. Keep it coming. I am going to enjoy this.

Sir, he is from mainland Indian from the Hindi-Hindu heartland. Sanskrit is as easy to him as is Hindi & he is quite well-read (real books, not Internet forums) at a younger age, than most. He studies at one the oldest & most reputed universities in India. Especially, when it comes to Sanskrit & Indian history, I doubt anyone (on DFI) has an comparable handle at it, than him. He is student of this subject.

He is born & brought up in the city of that supreme deity which was your username on another defence forum for years.

While we may or may not agree with him, his arguments have merit if you hear them out dispassionately & objectively.

I myself do not subscribe to his views one bit as he is not a sincere poster & posts just for the heck of it (without much conviction). He is extremely malleable & easy to persuade through a dose of facts + rhetoric. He does not have a mind of his own (totally confused), because he has read a little too much. Manipulating his though process is quite simple, trust me. But, he enjoys informed debate & has enough ammunition to put the best of Internet-scholars on the backfoot.

So, lets give it back to him as good as we get (without getting all riled up). By the way, he is just a kid in early twenties so his propensity is understandable.

You can speak to him directly & his origins/background would be revealed. Lets keep this "Paki origin" thing aside. This is spoiling the debate.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

et tu brute:shocked:

Why, mate ? I firmly believe what bennedose is saying is correct to a great extent.

I cannot get myself to accept Pratap's assertion unless he shares some evidences.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

Hmmis it so tough to have your ludicrous racist rubbish called out? Afghnistan had culture even after Islam came in. With Islam a lot of older culture was eventually destroyed just as it was in Bihar and UP. Afghanistan only became worse in recent decades. You don't even know how much UP and Bihar absorbed and you think the retention of Hindi and Shiva worship is all that is needed to say that all is well. Shows how superficial is your understanding of what culture means.

Sir, are you implying that Vedic culture is more preserved (or, equally intact) in Af-stan as it is in Hindi mainland ?

Come one Sir, we expect much better from you.

For all you professional competence, accomplishments & incomparable experience, please do not disappoint us & let amateurs like Pratap steal the show.

 

[shinoj]

Which is comical considering that you have liked the posts of the wannabes here

These are my Views on this Topic and some of the surrogate topics which are floating here.

Islam did ruin Afghanistan and not only afghanistan , also Pakistan and Bangladesh.
Western Historians are quite Over rated and those who take Indian Historians as Cock and Bull story as Fools in my Eyes.
Those who think that Afghanistan and Pakistan have culture of their own are Bigger Fools and those Hindus who believe that are the Biggest of all considering all the atrocities they did on Us.

And anyone who will agree on this and quote like that i will like them regardless of what they say on other threads.I read only what people write.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

Draupadi does say in Mahabharata that in old times, women did not appear before assembly of men while she was being dragged by Dushashana. What it shows is that Mahabharata which was compiled finally in Gupta age already had belief that women should not appear before large assembly of men even if among certain sections.
Shakuntala wore veil not just covered her head. I do not see South Indian" Mahilas" doing same.




You do not know patriarchial culture! Pitrasattatamak Samaj is natural order of human society and anyone saying else is living in delusion.
I already gave reference of Shakuntala.



Where did I say that it did like Islam? It did frown upon mixing of sexes and had contempt for northwestern Indians for that.
Buddhist monk in famous drama "Mrichhakatikam" does not even touch Vasantasena even when he wanted to help her out. Our culture was strictly against "kamavasana".




Islam did impact us in items of dress for men, cuisine and music but not to that extent.
Islam also impacted Hyderabad . Infact, local language of Hyderabad is much Persianized than that of my city.
India does retain matriarchial culture in some places . The same places which did not have anything to show. Matriarchial culture was heavily practised among Nayars of Kerala and we know how backward they were before patriarchial Brahmins civilized them.

Show me a single matriarchial culture that had independent literature and writing. Matriarchial culture is there among some backward tribals only.
This is westernized mindset.
Our ancestors were Manu and Ram not Nayars or Chenchus.

While I am in sync with many points of this post, can you substantiate this:

Pitrasattatamak Samaj is natural order of human society and anyone saying else is living in delusion.

Where is this coming from ? Has anthropological studies established so ? If not, how did you arrive upon this ?

 

[Mad Indian]

These are my Views on this Topic and some of the surrogate topics which are floating here.

Islam did ruin Afghanistan and not only afghanistan , also Pakistan and Bangladesh.
Western Historians are quite Over rated and those who take Indian Historians as Cock and Bull story as Fools in my Eyes.
Those who think that Afghanistan and Pakistan have culture of their own are Bigger Fools and those Hindus who believe that are the Biggest of all considering all the atrocities they did on Us.

And anyone who will agree on this and quote like that i will like them regardless of what they say on other threads.I read only what people write.

Bennedose is saying the exact same thing and has also added the fact that, if you consider that Afghanistan and Pakistan are ruined because of Islam, then it would also be true for UP and Bihar in the same way. So how is he wrong here?

Selective myopia?

 

[shinoj]

Bennedose is saying the exact same thing and has also added the fact that, if you consider that Afghanistan and Pakistan are ruined because of Islam, then it would also be true for UP and Bihar in the same way. So how is he wrong here?

Selective myopia?

I thought it was implied that Hinduism led to the ruins of UP and Bihar However if they are saying Islam has led to the ruins then i will be open to that Discussion. Afterall, due to the called Secular Agenda or appeasements of Muslims people like Mulayam and Laloo ruled them far too long.

Although i would say Casteism has also played a big Role in the Degradation of UP and Bihar because of people like Mayavati.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

Hindu culture pretty had pretty much ended in Gandhara and Taxila after Ashoka. It was predominantly Buddhist or at best a mixture of both.

How do we know that ? Any evidences ?

Brahmanism was as much prevalent there as was Budhhism culture, is what I know.

I see some exaggeration here & I am ok with that. The problem is: Repeated exaggerations ruin the pitch of the original argument & knocks out the real substance of whatever was there in the first place.

But you do not stop there. You are categorically denying the entire existence of Hindu-shahi / Kabul-shahi regimes whose court language was Sanskrit. This is outright fibbing, untenable to your stature.

It is my own theory that Buddhist pacifism contributed a great deal to the overrunning of Afghanistan and parts of current day Pakistan. But Punjab always wimped out until Sikhism came up

.

Could be. I dont know.

Then UP and Bihar collapsed in a heap.

Yes, kingdoms Indo-gangetic plains collapsed within a few months like a heap, which is an extraordinary event in history of mankind.

Someone please create a separate thread to discuss this. @Virendra is our resident expert when it comes to medieval history.

 

[Mad Indian]

Although i would say Casteism has also played a big Role in the Degradation of UP and Bihar because of people like Mayavati.

And people like Advani are not?

And no cherry picking, casteism has destroyed the entire indian state and not just UP and Bihar. It had been so from time immemorial and not just vote bank politics

 

[shinoj]

And people like Advani are not?

And no cherry picking, casteism has destroyed the entire indian state and not just UP and Bihar. It had been so from time immemorial and not just vote bank politics

Wow.. When was Advani at the helm of any Power ? Was he a Chief Minister or a Prime Minister ? How can be held responsible for the lack of Development of UP and Bihar.

This is incredible allegation.

 

[Mad Indian]

Wow.. When was Advani at the helm of any Power ? Was he a Chief Minister or a Prime Minister ? How can be held responsible for the lack of Development of UP and Bihar.

This is incredible allegation.

Mayawati was one of the better CMs of the UP state considering the thugs in power now. The reason she was hounded by media was because of her dalit background

By advani, i meant how castist he is. We all know the resistence faced by Modi for being an obc within the BJP. As I said, no cherry picking. If you want to insinuate the caste politics, lets be honest a bit more on all sides.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

South Indians do come as pilgrims in my city. They do not go to Afghanistan. Case closed. Some words mean nothing. The most read book in UP is Ramacharitmanas not Quran or Hadith.

You are allowed to be ignorant. But I am surprised at how bad you feel about your own background. It is a lesson for me to interact with an Indian who is deeply ashamed of his past and needs to find solace in fake history, You need not love ugly black south Indians - but you just look extremely stupid when you reveal humongous gaps in your knowledge. Maybe the extreme backwardness of Bihar and UP is reflected in the deep deficiency, ignorance and profound inferiority complex that a seemingly educated person such as yourself from that area is displaying on a public forum. That is a real revelation to me. I feel sorry for my countrymen if they have to clutch at straws to feel better and cannot see outside of their blinkered mind.

BIMARU seems to include bimari of the mind among some people. But I know too many great people from your area. Some are family - so you are an exception. And you have a huge image problem that you need to address. My sympathies. For what it is worth...

Sir, could you please show me what is incorrect with the statement that I have quoted above ? What is untrue there ?

Throughout the thread, you have been desperately trying to establish that Af-stan is as much culturally intact as is Hindi-heartland.

Do yo have any idea how ridiculous you sound ? Can you show me 1 individual in the world who supports such blatantly incongruous statement of yours ?

That you have the misplaced audacity to say so, reveals negative effects of age-ing (senility is the word, right ?) Please feel free to get offended. And, your lack of knowledge about anything Indian.

The language, religion & culture in Hindi heartland is still Vedic at core. Not so in case of Af-stan.

Hindi, Hindu & Vedic vs. Perso-Islamic. Use your brain, please.

So, Islam destroyed Af-stan more & permanently than it could do to Hindi-heartland who have already recovered unlike Af-stan. Period.

This settles the debate. Please do not continue your desperate endeavors towards losing all respect in eyes of readers.

Your tirades are getting too tired to believe

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Mayawati was one of the better CMs of the UP state considering the thugs in power now. The reason she was hounded by media was because of her dalit background

By advani, i meant how castist he is. We all know the resistence faced by Modi for being an obc within the BJP. As I said, no cherry picking. If you want to insinuate the caste politics, lets be honest a bit more on all sides.

She was hounded by her own big elephant statues! But yes, she was 100 times better than SP.

 

[TrueSpirit1]

Thank you for debating this politely.

Reciprocity would be appreciated, especially from someone of your stature.

On second thoughts, forget it (that someone even mentioned it).

 

[Pratap]

She was hounded by her own big elephant statues! But yes, she was 100 times better than SP.

All this is plain rubbish. Mayawati extracted money from Police Officers directly, SP does it through its goons. The number of Minsisters going to jail during BSP was a record in history of UP. Ramapati Ram Tripathi, ex State President of UP BJP rightly said," Choosing between Maya and Mulayam is like choosing between Naga and Nagin"

 

[Pratap]

Mayawati was one of the better CMs of the UP state considering the thugs in power now. The reason she was hounded by media was because of her dalit background

By advani, i meant how castist he is. We all know the resistence faced by Modi for being an obc within the BJP. As I said, no cherry picking. If you want to insinuate the caste politics, lets be honest a bit more on all sides.

It was Advani who saved Modi from being sacked in post 2002 . Advani tried to stop Modi for the same reason why so many Indian Kings murdered their father- lust for power. It was not based on any casteist prejudice.

 

[Mad Indian]

She was hounded by her own big elephant statues! But yes, she was 100 times better than SP.

I agree with what you say, but do you really think media was fair and proportionate in their depiction of BSP?

Is the SP getting such a bad press BSP was getting when it was in power?

 

[Mad Indian]

It was Advani who saved Modi from being sacked in post 2002 . Advani tried to stop Modi for the same reason why so many Indian Kings murdered their father- lust for power. It was not based on any casteist prejudice.

Advani was NOT the ONLY person who tried to stop Modi in BJP. And please dont think I am an idiot to not understand the difference between personal power struggle and casteist politics

 

[Pratap]

Sir, could you please show me what is incorrect with the statement that I have quoted above ? What is untrue there ?

Throughout the thread, you have been desperately trying to establish that Af-stan is as much culturally intact as is Hindi-heartland.

Do yo have any idea how ridiculous you sound ? Can you show me 1 individual in the world who supports such blatantly incongruous statement of yours ?

That you have the misplaced audacity to say so, reveals negative effects of age-ing (senility is the word, right ?) Please feel free to get offended. And, your lack of knowledge about anything Indian.

The language, religion & culture in Hindi heartland is still Vedic at core. Not so in case of Af-stan.

Hindi, Hindu & Vedic vs. Perso-Islamic. Use your brain, please.

So, Islam destroyed Af-stan more & permanently than it could do to Hindi-heartland who have already recovered unlike Af-stan. Period.

This settles the debate. Please do not continue your desperate endeavors towards losing all respect in eyes of readers.

Your tirades are getting too tired to believe

Finallly, someone to bludgeon the utter ignorant views of that man bordering on mental retardness. Right now, "sita ram"emanating from my neighbourhood from loudspeakers of "Ramayan ka patha" has been going on for last 24 hours and this scene virtually everywhere and man says that UP lost Hindu culture.