DFI Computer Programming thread

hit&run

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I do not know what constitutes Software Engineering in NZ and how different it is from India.

From an Indian BE and partly American MCS(ongoing) perspective, CSE or Computer Science and Engineering generally encompasses Software Engineering. In most institutions of India there is no separate course known as Software Engineering as CSE includes SE. There is an IT course which does have a bit more SE stuff but the basic thing remains the same.

However if we are to differentiate between the two, CSE is a broad field which includes topics ranging from Compilers,DBMS,Algorithms,Operating Systems ,Discrete Maths, Cyber-security /Cryptography to even topics like Machine Learning/AI which can be classified as fields of their own. A CS grad is expected to have a cursory knowledge of all the topics mentioned above.

On the other hand a Software Engineering Course generally focuses more on building efficient software, which includes having a deep insight into project management techniques like Agile/Waterfall method, having a good technical know how and being familiar with the latest software tools,knowing DBMS pretty well, React/Express/a coding language to make apps, know how to make Cloud based scalable apps etc. A SE also has to know things like testing/software support and learning how to build and market competitive apps within a deadline.

On the topic of job roles,a software engineer can be classified as a front end engineer if he is into web designing(HTML/CSS/Javascript skills), a back-end engineer(mainly coding stuff/DBMS/framework etc). There are also data scientists/data analysts and cyber security experts etc

A big part of which course to pick depends on what your son wants to end up becoming. Does he dream to become a FAANG company employee with a six figure salary. Then either course is good enough as he ultimately has to learn algorithms thoroughly and do leetcode grinding to crack the tough as nails interview questions. Keep in mind most CSE grads who want to get a good paying job end up becoming Software Engineers(barring Data Analysts/Cyber security experts and some other specialized CS fields). The thing is at the end of the day both CS and SE/IT grads have to focus only on cracking coding interviews which is not taught at universities(unless you consider Algo class) but has to be done at home. As for the other non FAANG companies like consultancies there too both grads have the same playing field. At the end of the day any Software developer has to have a good grasp of algorthms, their implementation and a good know how of logic and maths.

If one wants to become a researcher(Masters/PhD/Post gad) then CS gives far more leeway for branching out to different avenues. A CS grad has the option to choose from a research topic in ML/Cyber-security/Bioinformatics/other specialized CS topics etc. I do not know if the same holds out for SE.

Whatever option he picks a big factor to consider would be the college rank and the alumni network of the institute. A good combination of the two makes getting internships/jobs or higher study opportunities much easier.
Thanks for your detailed response. I have made my son read every line of it.

A few days back I wrote the following on his whiteboard.

Self-study; specialization in at least one Language, algorithm, and data.

There is a lot of information to absorb. My problem has been always running many simulations to project the future. Guess what, the future always surprises me with the unknown.

I trained him throughout his childhood to study medicine. From inguinal hernia to transcranial intra-ventricular catheterization he knew a lot of pathologies, methods, and procedures. He took full subjects including Biology but never sat the exam in year 11 for Biology. I only knew when the result came. He quietly told me that he doesn't like Medicine.

Will I stop interfering? I am not too sure. He is interested in SE.

Unlike India, there is no CSE or SEIT like in USA's case. It is either CS (3 years) or SE (Four years) in NZ. Like you mentioned CS is more introductory, flexible, and covers concurrent popular subjects. After reading your post I now think with more electives in CS he will be able to change track depending on his interest than being into more academically ridged SE.
 

Bhumihar

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University of Auckland First year.
  • Materials ScienceType:Compulsory core course Points:15 pts
  • ELE:Electrical and Digital SystemsType:Compulsory core course Points:15 pts
  • Principles of Engineering DesignType:Compulsory core course Points:15 pts
  • Engineering MechanicsType:Compulsory core course Points:15 pts
  • Introduction to Engineering Computation and Software DevelopmentType:Compulsory core course Points:15 pts
  • Energy and SocietyType:Compulsory core course Points:15 pts
  • Mathematical Modelling 1Type:Compulsory core course Points:15 pts
  • General Education course Points:15 pts
  • English Language CompetencyType:Compulsory degree component Points:0 pts
Score GPA Above 7.6 to get into 2nd-year Specialization (Software Engineering)

View attachment 122157

Note: Software requires the highest GPA.

Subjects for specialization, i.e Software in our case.

Snap Shots with Link.

View attachment 122158
@hit&run ji don't mean any disrespect to you or your son but Engineering for a non core branch seems like a cruel joke.
The only advantage of a CSE course in a college is a better peer group and a thorough guidance which is also subjective.

The High CGPA in CSE department is a result of High demand for the same.

Each and everything that you need for a job in IT sector is available online. In case of India degee plays an important part in getting the job in IT sector might not be the case overseas.
If your son has interest in other field of engineering please let him do it.
Degree from core branch and currently working in IT product based company at 13.6 LPA. I could have gotten more but I was working on my patent and research paper which has future business prospects.

I will write more on this in a while.
 

hit&run

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@hit&run ji don't mean any disrespect to you or your son but Engineering for a non core branch seems like a cruel joke.
The only advantage of a CSE course in a college is a better peer group and a thorough guidance which is also subjective.

The High CGPA in CSE department is a result of High demand for the same.

Each and everything that you need for a job in IT sector is available online. In case of India degee plays an important part in getting the job in IT sector might not be the case overseas.
If your son has interest in other field of engineering please let him do it.
Degree from core branch and currently working in IT product based company at 13.6 LPA. I could have gotten more but I was working on my patent and research paper which has future business prospects.

I will write more on this in a while.
None taken. After my first query, I was to shift to this particular discussion.

He first selected mechanical Engineering. When we did research on jobs availability and pay scale the difference was almost 40K NZD PA between ME and SE. I mean the pay was not a deciding factor but it kind of reflected on the specialization's value. One factor we also discussed was AI, Automation and pandemic changing the pardime industries are going through. I am not too sure how it will pan out in future as far as core specialization is concerned. This confusion was the reason we decided to play safe.

When think even further I would like him to start his own enterprise for which I am working on a lot of investment already. Obviously it is premature and things may change with my financial plans or it may become too insignificant or inviable but again for planning's sake, SE looks like a safer bet.
 
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Hijibiji

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None taken. After my first query, I was to shift to this particular discussion.

He first selected mechanical Engineering. When we did research on jobs availability and pay scale the difference was almost 40K NZD PA between ME and SE. I mean the pay was not a deciding factor but it kind of reflected on the specialization's value. One factor we also discussed was AI, Automation and pandemic changing the pardime industries are going through. I am not too sure how it will pan out in future as far as core specialization is concerned. This confusion was the reason we decided to play safe.

When think even further I would like him to start his own enterprise for which I am working on a lot of investment already. Obviously it is premature and things may change with my financial plans or it may become too insignificant or inviable but again for planning's sake, SE looks like a safer bet.
This is easy decision making :)

Consider yourself to be head of the admission panel.
And then simply ask, "Why X"?

For example "Why MBA"?
Why Engineering? Why Mechanical Engineering? Why Software Engineering? Why Computer Systems?
If the answer is convincing, admission is granted.
If the answer is non-convincing, candidature rejected.

I know many fellows who did NOT do MBA after trying to answer, "Why MBA"?
Similarly many fellows would NOT even do engineering BUT NONE asked them, "Why Engineering"?

Radical approach to this decision making process is:
Take him to go for Genetic Engineering. That way his knowledge in Biology is still used. Besides cutting-edge research and dev happens in this field. Bill Joy said this more than 10 years back. Bill Joy was a computer scientist :)
 
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LondonParisTokyo

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I don't know how to program but have had a strong interest in learning how for a long time. Unfortunately my life went in a different direction and I may not get to this for many years, or honestly, ever. Does anybody here have interest in AI programming (predictive)? I have great resources if anybody does. Please reply and I can link one or two things.

Edit: I must also emphasize that knowing the WHY is much much more important than simply knowing the WHAT. I know the Indian system I think seems to prefer to exclusively teach only the WHAT and not the WHY. The HOW is where I will always get stuck, but I have a rough understanding of the WHAT and the WHY.
 

INDIAFIRST

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I don't know how to program but have had a strong interest in learning how for a long time. Unfortunately my life went in a different direction and I may not get to this for many years, or honestly, ever. Does anybody here have interest in AI programming (predictive)? I have great resources if anybody does. Please reply and I can link one or two things.
please i am ...i have also joined nptel course on this online free course
 

THESIS THORON

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I don't know how to program but have had a strong interest in learning how for a long time. Unfortunately my life went in a different direction and I may not get to this for many years, or honestly, ever. Does anybody here have interest in AI programming (predictive)? I have great resources if anybody does. Please reply and I can link one or two things.

Edit: I must also emphasize that knowing the WHY is much much more important than simply knowing the WHAT. I know the Indian system I think seems to prefer to exclusively teach only the WHAT and not the WHY. The HOW is where I will always get stuck, but I have a rough understanding of the WHAT and the WHY.
I always wanted to do aerospace engg, but I am now doing cse :dude:.

btw, is it okay for doing aerospace masters after cse btech ??
 

LondonParisTokyo

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Python that too OOP
Do you know how to operate in various python libraries? I'm sure you can pick this up easily. Pandas, SciPy, Matplotlib, TensorFlow? There's a few more.

The most important book that covers the concepts from ground up is https://hastie.su.domains/ISLR2/ISLRv2_website.pdf

If this is simple to you, https://hastie.su.domains/ElemStatLearn/printings/ESLII_print12_toc.pdf

I anticipate it'll take somebody a solid year of part-time work to get through these books. I also have some other resources that are easier but I have to dig to find them again. Keep in mind these books are using R, but you can find a pythonic version of it online as well. The concepts from R to Python are translatable (again for me: I don't have the time to learn either right now unfortunately)
 

INDIAFIRST

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I don't know how to program but have had a strong interest in learning how for a long time. Unfortunately my life went in a different direction and I may not get to this for many years, or honestly, ever. Does anybody here have interest in AI programming (predictive)? I have great resources if anybody does. Please reply and I can link one or two things.

Edit: I must also emphasize that knowing the WHY is much much more important than simply knowing the WHAT. I know the Indian system I think seems to prefer to exclusively teach only the WHAT and not the WHY. The HOW is where I will always get stuck, but I have a rough understanding of the WHAT and the WHY.
my interest became more when i got to know how our system is so classified...
for example when a boy speaks in english " I am going...but if he speaks in Hindi he say mein jaata hoon...and when girl speaks she says mein jaati hoon see...how TA and TI can be easily understood from a point that who is speaking girl or boy from passive pov...
 

LondonParisTokyo

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I personally believe that AI and data science will replace everything in the future. If you can learn the concepts well from computer science, you can learn anything
 

INDIAFIRST

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None taken. After my first query, I was to shift to this particular discussion.

He first selected mechanical Engineering. When we did research on jobs availability and pay scale the difference was almost 40K NZD PA between ME and SE. I mean the pay was not a deciding factor but it kind of reflected on the specialization's value. One factor we also discussed was AI, Automation and pandemic changing the pardime industries are going through. I am not too sure how it will pan out in future as far as core specialization is concerned. This confusion was the reason we decided to play safe.

When think even further I would like him to start his own enterprise for which I am working on a lot of investment already. Obviously it is premature and things may change with my financial plans or it may become too insignificant or inviable but again for planning's sake, SE looks like a safer bet.
Pandemic has literally changed the game of many students...they are now starting to understand which industry is most vulnerable in times like this...
 

altruist ROR

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I personally believe that AI and data science will replace everything in the future. If you can learn the concepts well from computer science, you can learn anything
Software Dev is still the best and highest paid. Best thing, can easily jump into any stream ai/ml, nlp and if needed move to pm after 7-8yrs.
 

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